Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?

[Redeemed]

I suggest that alapiana made a mistake on making such a statement. which is ok, we all make mistakes.

I didn't say there was a verse for that. Thus saith I that Jesus will receive the reward of His suffering! That is the inference I make from my knowledge of Scripture, and I say it with all boldness.

 

[vpb]

I didn't say there was a verse for that. Thus saith I that Jesus will receive the reward of His suffering! That is the inference I make from my knowledge of Scripture, and I say it with all boldness.

ok prove your point then. but from the start before u prove u'r point, u are telling me that Jesus will get rewarded, where we know that only humans get rewarded.
so please bring the evidence.

 

[Basirah]

2. Hindus worship many gods whereas Trinitarians worship only one!

That is really something when it comes to those who worship many gods and goddesses you can see monotheism, but when we Christians try to tell you we believe in one God, you tell us we are polytheistic. I never heard the Hindis claiming they believe in one God, but we do. Besides, Jesus was prophesied to come centuries before this eastern heresy came into play.

When have I ever made such a claim? I am merely showing you that Hindu beliefs of Brahman reveal that all gods in Hindu theology represent avatars of Brahman and in reality many might say everything in the universe is connected to Brahman and his "oneness". It has nothing to do with Christianity at all.

 

[Redeemed]

ok prove your point then. but from the start before u prove u'r point, u are telling me that Jesus will get rewarded, where we know that only humans get rewarded.
so please bring the evidence.

That is a fair request! I need to look it up, and I have never made a claim that I couldn't back up Scripturally on this forum about the things of God. There is a verse saying that (Revelation 10 16 - 19) "The sovereignty of the world has passed to our Lord and his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever!... The nations raged, but thy day of retribution has come. Now is the time for the dead to be judged; now is the time for recompense to thy servants the prophets..."

 

[Redeemed]

When have I ever made such a claim? I am merely showing you that Hindu beliefs of Brahman reveal that all gods in Hindu theology represent avatars of Brahman and in reality many might say everything in the universe is connected to Brahman and his "oneness". It has nothing to do with Christianity at all.

Yes, but what is the point you are trying to make if not discredit Christianity. This thread is about what the trinity is to Christians and Muslims not to the Hindis. Besides, I gave a write up on it a few posts back.
Peace

 

[vpb]

That is a fair request! I need to look it up, and I have never made a claim that I couldn't back up Scripturally on this forum about the things of God. There is a verse saying that (Revelation 10 16 - 19) "The sovereignty of the world has passed to our Lord and his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever!... The nations raged, but thy day of retribution has come. Now is the time for the dead to be judged; now is the time for recompense to thy servants the prophets..."

there are two options here,

either this verse has nothing to do with the question I asked, or if you insist that this is an answer to the question, than we can come to the conclusion that Jesus was a human.

but thy day of retribution has come. Now is the time for the dead to be judged; now is the time for recompense to thy servants the prophets..."

why is judgmenet? it is for rewarding and punishing.

so I think you are either mistaking yourself by making such statement, or you are indirectly (without knowning) claiming that Jesus is only a human who will be judged (rewarded) as we muslims believe.

That is a fair request! I need to look it up, and I have never made a claim that I couldn't back up Scripturally on this forum about the things of God.

but I'm waiting for your further answer.

 

[doorster]

edit

 

[Muslim Woman]

[FONT=&quot]With the name of ALLAH (God Almigthy) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]%%%%%[/FONT]

When I googled Hindu gods, I got a site that listed 27 gods and goddesses,

can u give the link ? I never heard of 27 gods of Hindus. Either they say 3 in 1 God or many of them will say , there are 33 crore deities

Nowhere do you have Hindus saying there is only ONE GOD.

I googled & found this.

Hindus believe in monotheistic polytheism, rather than polytheism.

HINDU TRINITY
Represents Three manifestations of the Supreme Reality.
These are :

Brahma : Creation

Vishnu : Preservation

Shiva : Destruction

Hindu Trinity (Trimurti)

• Three Faces of Divine
• Three Cosmic Functions of the Supreme Lord
• Creation + Preservation+ Dissolution
• Generator + Operator + Destroyer = GOD

http://www.hindunet.org/quickintro/hindudharma/hindu_trinity.htm

 

[guyabano]

There is no God but God

right? the fundamental believe of muslims and christians !

But how will you explain to all the others, that there do exist at least 500 different gods around the planet.

I'm curious! Will you tell them, they are all unbelievers, or what?

edit: Sorry, I forgot the link: Source

 

[vpb]

right? the fundamental believe of muslims and christians !

But how will you explain to all the others, that there do exist at least 500 different gods around the planet.

I'm curious! Will you tell them, they are all unbelievers, or what?

La ilahe illallah does not mean There is no God but God.

because you can see the word 'Rabb' which in arabic means God, is not used in shahada, but it is Allah.
and the correct translation of La ilahe ilallah is not "There is no God but God", but it is "there is no diety of worship except/but Allah".

In the first part of shahada, we have the the affirmative and negative form.

Negative form = There is no diety of worship - Affirms that no one is diety of worship, or deserves to be worshiped.
Affiramtive form = except/but Allah - Affirming that only Allah is to be worshiped.


"there is no God, but God", I think would be in arabic something like
"La rabb illa rabb", maybe Wodroow can correct the sentence.

 

[Muslim Woman]

[FONT=&quot]With the name of ALLAH (God Almigthy) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful[/FONT]


Salaam/peace ;

.....My research, however, has caused me to have a deeper respect for Islam.

woooww , why ?

a clarification : I wanted to say : if Christians can easily understand the Hindus Trinity , then it's ok for them to complain/ accuse Muslims that why Muslims find it hard to understand what is what .

If Christians find it difficult to grasp the meaning of Hindu's Trinity , then at least u will realise why Muslims find Christians Trinity hard to understand.

I m not personally accusing any Christian to condemn me / us :statisfie


related Q & A

Ask the Pundits ( scholars )

http://www.karma2grace.org/webcomponents/faq/index.asp?det=77

Q. [FONT=Verdana,Arial]Is the Trinity of Christianity and Hinduism the same? Or is the Trinity of Christianity and the Trimurti of Hinduism just a conicidence?

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial]A: You are right to observe that there is an apparent similarity in the number three being related to both Christianity in the Trinity and to Hinduism in the Trimurti.


Your question is a fine one and one we often have asked of us. The nature of the two similarities in this case is one that disappears as soon as we begin to look deeper.
The basic contrast is that with the Trinity, the concept is of one God, exiting in three dimensions or personhoods.


The point is that the Trinity is not a concept of three gods, but of one God.


In Hinduism we have three gods who serve as representation of either three gods or one God (Brahman), depending on which school and tradition of Hinduism you would choose to examine.


Essentially, the Trimurti is one of the scales of Hinduism one might stop at to descriptively explain the Hindu gods.



One could stop at one God (Brahman), three gods (Trimurti), move out to the 300 most popular gods, or move even further out to 3,000 --and so continuing on. With the Trinity there is not optional way to describe God. He is one God in three person, period.



The oneness of the Trinity is made more clear when we find this oneness is represented in three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), and that these three persons do not change over time. Neither is there the possibility of this changing to two, four, or seven persons in this representation.


The flexible concept of the Trimurti is more a descriptive representation of the present status of popular gods and the fashioning of these three gods into a sort of three-some, where one god (Brahma) is the creator god, one god (Vishnu) is the sustainer god, and one god (Shiva) is the destroyer god. Originally, the most popular gods (of the Vedas) were Indra and Agni, with numerous deities vying for a popular third position (Varuna, Soma, etc.).



There certainly was not the present concept of a Trimurti present until the later development and popularity of Vishnu and Shiva. There is essentially no worship or cult of Brahma (the first god of the Trimurti), and many Hindus do not worship either Vishnu or Shiva. This is all to say that the concept of the Trimurti is a non-essential and descriptive observation about Hinduism, not a doctrine of the very nature of God Himself.



In contrast to this, the Trinity is a very essential teaching of the very nature of God Himself.

Here is a summary of this comparison:


TRIMURTI TRINITY
# of gods 3 1
# of persons 3 3
Names of Gods change? Yes No
# of Gods possibly different?
Yes No
Essential in worship? No Yes
[/FONT]

 

[doorster]

La ilahe illallah does not mean There is no God but God.

because you can see the word 'Rabb' which in arabic means God, is not used in shahada, but it is Allah.
and the correct translation of La ilahe ilallah is not "There is no God but God", but it is "there is no diety of worship except/but Allah".

In the first part of shahada, we have the the affirmative and negative form.

Negative form = There is no diety of worship - Affirms that no one is diety of worship, or deserves to be worshiped.
Affiramtive form = except/but Allah - Affirming that only Allah is to be worshiped.


"there is no God, but God", I think would be in arabic something like
"La rabb illa rabb", maybe Wodroow can correct the sentence.

Illah: god, deity
Allah: The God

there is no illah but Allah
or
there is no god but The God (Allah is a more of a 2 words phrase than a single word)

Rabb: Palne walah (urdu) probably means Sustainer in English

 

[MustafaMc]

La ilahe illallah does not mean There is no God but God.

because you can see the word 'Rabb' which in arabic means God, is not used in shahada, but it is Allah.
and the correct translation of La ilahe ilallah is not "There is no God but God", but it is "there is no diety of worship except/but Allah".

In the first part of shahada, we have the the affirmative and negative form.

Negative form = There is no diety of worship - Affirms that no one is diety of worship, or deserves to be worshiped.
Affiramtive form = except/but Allah - Affirming that only Allah is to be worshiped.


"there is no God, but God", I think would be in arabic something like
"La rabb illa rabb", maybe Wodroow can correct the sentence.

Islam Beliefs and Teachings - la ilaha illallah meaning la=no, ilaha=god, illa=except, and Allah=God. I believe that I read where Br. Woodrow wrote Allah=the God.

 

[Balthasar21]

I don't know why you are being so disrepectful to this person! He is among the most knowledgeable and respectable Christians that I have ever encountered. Keep your insults to yourself!:raging::enough!:

You know what funny , People like you alway see me insulting those who insult me but never say anything to them when they insult me Hummmm . Those who have thin skin should keep their insult to themselves this mean you too . Like I Said The Trinity Is Fake , Yashu'a Never Claim To Be God . If Yashu'a Was God , Than Let The Christians Explain Who Was He Praying To In Garden , ( HIMSELF ) And If He Was God Their Wouldn't Be A Need For Him To Pray . And Far As Saying He Most knowledgeable and Respectable . First Of All For Him To Say That The Languag Doesn't Matter Tell s He A Liar . Most Christians Minister Expect Every one TO BELIEVE / ACCEPT whatever he says because he carry the title Minister And your not to Question What They Say . He Not God , Why Shouldn't He Be Question When He Wrong . Anyone Who Call Himself A Teacher And Fear Being Question , And Calls People Name Because They Don't Agree With Them Is Hideing Something . Because A Person Has Read A Few Book Doesn't Make Them knowledgeable , It only mean they have read few a books . And As Far As Respect When You Give Respect You Shall Get Respect . OverStand .

 

[vpb]

Islam Beliefs and Teachings - la ilaha illallah meaning la=no, ilaha=god, illa=except, and Allah=God. I believe that I read where Br. Woodrow wrote Allah=the God.

yes but translating it, "there is no God but God" makes no sense, bc non-muslims don't know what Allah means, and don't know what God it is talking about. That's why it's always the best to translate,

There is no diety of worship but Allah .

Allah does not translate to God.
The word Rabb translated to God, but since people try to translate everything, they translate the word Allah to God.

Illah: god, deity
Allah: The God

there is no illah but Allah
or

yep that's right.

there is no god but The God (Allah is a more of a 2 words phrase than a single word)

Rabb: Palne walah (urdu) probably means Sustainer in English

but this is the one that does not sound good to say 'there is no god but God'.
we don't have the word Rabb in the shahada, but the word Allah. bc Allah is a special name.
so we need to teach non-arabic ppl (i am myself non-arabic), to say or to write

There is no diety of worship But Allah, or at least "There is no god but Allah". So the difference can be seen.

 

[doorster]

yes but translating it, "there is no God but God" makes no sense, bc non-muslims don't know what Allah means, and don't know what God it is talking about. That's why it's always the best to translate,

There is no diety of worship but Allah .

Allah does not translate to God.
The word Rabb translated to God, but since people try to translate everything, they translate the word Allah to God.



yep that's right.


but this is the one that does not sound good to say 'there is no god but God'.
we don't have the word Rabb in the shahada, but the word Allah. bc Allah is a special name.
so we need to teach non-arabic ppl (i am myself non-arabic), to say or to write

There is no diety of worship But Allah, or at least "There is no god but Allah". So the difference can be seen.

Nonsense!

any primary school child knows the difference between god and God when looking at written form

and any Aalim worth his salt knows that rabb does not translate to either god or God

only a google scholar who had no grounding in English whatsoever will translate as "There is no diety of worship But Allah"

If one wants to put tafsir within the translation then one does it as follows:

There is no god [Illah(a deity worthy of worship)] but Allah (The God)

 

[Grace Seeker]

either this verse has nothing to do with the question I asked, or if you insist that this is an answer to the question, than we can come to the conclusion that Jesus was a human.


so I think you are either mistaking yourself by making such statement, or you are indirectly (without knowning) claiming that Jesus is only a human who will be judged (rewarded) as we muslims believe.

Just a reminder before this gets further down this road. Christians do indeed claim that Jesus was a human, in fact 100% human. The issue you want to put before Alapiana would be the question of whether or not Jesus was ONLY human, and nothing more. For while we Christians claim that Jesus was 100% human, we also claim that Jesus was 100% diety.

 

[Redeemed]

there are two options here,

either this verse has nothing to do with the question I asked, or if you insist that this is an answer to the question, than we can come to the conclusion that Jesus was a human.

why is judgmenet? it is for rewarding and punishing.

so I think you are either mistaking yourself by making such statement, or you are indirectly (without knowning) claiming that Jesus is only a human who will be judged (rewarded) as we muslims believe.


but I'm waiting for your further answer.

Yes, my brother of humanity: still more to come Look at Revelation 5: 9 -14 "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou was slain and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priest: and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousands, and thousands of thousands; (what does that come to?) Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the lamb (Jesus) that was slain to receive power, and riches and wisdom, and strength and honor and glory and blessing. ( I would call it a reward of his suffering) And every creature in heaven and in earth was heard saying Blessing and honor and glory to him who sits on the throne and to the lamb (Jesus) for ever and ever..." There will be still more to come unless this satisfies you!:statisfie

 

[Muslim Woman]

[FONT=&quot]With the name of ALLAH (God Almigthy) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful[/FONT]

Salaam/peace;

.... we Christians claim that Jesus was 100% human, we also claim that Jesus was 100% diety.

Jesus (p) will get reward as human being or deity ?

[FONT=&quot] verses for this life & the life hereafter :[/FONT]


For, [when] God judges, there is no power that could repel His judgment: and swift in reckoning is He!

-Quran (13:41)

 

[Redeemed]

You know what funny , People like you alway see me insulting those who insult me but never say anything to them when they insult me Hummmm . Those who have thin skin should keep their insult to themselves this mean you too . Like I Said The Trinity Is Fake , Yashu'a Never Claim To Be God . If Yashu'a Was God , Than Let The Christians Explain Who Was He Praying To In Garden , ( HIMSELF ) And If He Was God Their Wouldn't Be A Need For Him To Pray . And Far As Saying He Most knowledgeable and Respectable . First Of All For Him To Say That The Languag Doesn't Matter Tell s He A Liar . Most Christians Minister Expect Every one TO BELIEVE / ACCEPT whatever he says because he carry the title Minister And your not to Question What They Say . He Not God , Why Shouldn't He Be Question When He Wrong . Anyone Who Call Himself A Teacher And Fear Being Question , And Calls People Name Because They Don't Agree With Them Is Hideing Something . Because A Person Has Read A Few Book Doesn't Make Them knowledgeable , It only mean they have read few a books . And As Far As Respect When You Give Respect You Shall Get Respect . OverStand .

The person you were disrespectful to never called you any names. What are you talking about. It doesn't matter how someone acts toward you anyway, What is important is the way you act toward them. Besides, I didn't see any Christian or Muslim insult you. You gave some good advice about respect to follow.