Dutch MP Wants Qur’an Ban

[KAding]

Is it in the name of "liberal secular humanism" that this Dutch MP (and many Dutch Christians like him) want to ban the Holy Quran?

I'm not sure he is a Christian though. I've never heard him refer to God, so I think he's an agnostic. What other 'many Dutch Christians' want to ban the Qu'ran btw? Like whom? I've never heard anyone suggest that.

Because if that is so, why are they not making similar demands for the Bible to be censured? The Bible, particularly some "notorious" Old Testament passages call for aggressive violence, genocide, and killing of idolatrous apostates, as well as adulterers and even those who curse their parents, by stoning them to death. This may sound like Islam, but its actually the Bible, the supposedly number one bestseller in the world.

Agreed. Both books can be pretty shocking at times. Thats no reason to ban it of course.

I believe that the Dutch, and many in Europe have not yet rid themselves of their racial prejudice towards non-whites and non-christians. They are still afflicted with the disease of false pride in one's heritage. They have become so secularized and immoral that they are reluctant to adhere to the traditional lifestyle of marriage and family, and the effects of this foolish culture is that their numbers have diminished and with widespread immigration, especially from Muslim countries, they feel threatened. Threatened about their sinful way of life with all those strict and austere Muslims having large families and slowly gaining in influence and power. Threatened furthermore by the fact that their own youth raised in an unclean and impious environment are attracted to Islam, a religion of discipline and excellent moral guidance, and are converting in large numbers by the grace of Allah.

This is the root of European far-right reaction and disdain for Islam, in case anyone was wandering.

I hear you basically agree with Wilders then? :uuh: He also believes all those Muslims are a threat to our way of life. He also believes a 'tsunami of Muslims' is overflowing the Netherlands. It is amazing how extremists on both sides basically make the same analysis. While the moderates are saying we can coexist, the extremist keep insisting Islam will destroy Dutch culture if not stopped.

Anyway, they feel threatened alright. But then again, so would any society that has to deal with such a large number of economic and political immigrants. And unlike other immigrants, Muslims almost exclusively marry inside the group, most even get their brides from the country of their parents. Muslims are not integrating well, this is causing a lot of friction. A lot more then with other big immigrant groups, like Surinam's, Indians or Chinese.

 

[yigiter187]

from where do you think the command came to ban qoran...may it be from a place in italy from err..

 

[guyabano]

I have lived in Holland 2 times and I know one reason why this Minister wants the Noble Qur'an banned in the Netherlands....

First of all... we have to know that Dutch are natural Beer Drinkers... they drink not to get drunk... but it is part of their culture. IN fact, one of their biggest industry is the Beer Brewering Industry like Heineken and Amstel to name some. the 6% of Muslims will of course multiply by means of birth and entrophy... We are talking about - Economic Sabotage here for the Alchohol Industry.

THe Dutch are a Merry and Fun-loving people, and they are serious about keeping their rights to have fun in tact.

Islam do not encourage the government to kick off people out of their houses when they are not able to pay a loan in the bank or fall short in their rents... In Holland... there are many incidents that when the government had problems putting Muslims out of their houses... Because, as a Muslim, you will die fighting defending your properties. This has been the complaint of Dutch bailifts and police.

This is probably some of the reasons why this Dutch PM acted that way. Little does he know. It is only the ignorant about the Qur'an that repels it.

Good Post, and you are right. But tell me, is that really surprising you? Supposed, you live in an muslim country living strictly islamic. Now comes a bunch of christians and start to 'multiply' and claim their rights, would you act the same way, just in an islamic way and ban bible, etc ?

be honest !

 

[yigiter187]

retaliation to holland should came from islamic countries by banning bible...iran will do for sure,but if only turkey would do

 

[KAding]

from where do you think the command came to ban qoran...may it be from a place in italy from err..

What do you mean? From the Vatican? I really don't you understand how secular Holland is. The pope has little to no authority in Holland, even among the Catholics (which are a minority).

Like I said, I don't even know if Wilders is a Christian. He certainly never talks about his religious convictions. Maybe he believes in God, maybe he doesn't. From what I know about his past, he seems either an agnostic or even an atheist.

I know Muslims like framing everything as a struggle between Islam and Christianity. But in Holland Islamophobia is not motivated by religion convictions, but rather political convictions.

 

[KAding]

retaliation to holland should came from islamic countries by banning bible...iran will do for sure,but if only turkey would do

Let me get this straight. You want the Bible to be banned because 1 (one) parliamentarian in Holland wants to ban the Qu'ran? Despite the fact that this would be unconstitutional and doesn't have a chance in hell of actually happening?

And you dare call the Dutch the extremists? Might I suggest you look into a mirror for that?

 

[KAding]

Good Post, and you are right. But tell me, is that really surprising you? Supposed, you live in an muslim country living strictly islamic. Now comes a bunch of christians and start to 'multiply' and claim their rights, would you act the same way, just in an islamic way and ban bible, etc ?

be honest !

I would think banning the bible would be un-Islamic, since it is a holy book in Islam as well?

But then again, selling a bible would be impossible for Muslims, since they would basically be dealing in something 'kufr', which would not be allowed? And I suppose selling a Bible to a Muslim might be a dangerous practice for non-Muslims as well, since that might be interpreted as proselytizing and might get you killed?

Hmm. Looking into it a bit more I think Saudi Arabia has already banned the Bible?

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/saudi/issues/dp.html
Sadiq 'Abd al-Karim Mal Allah, a Saudi Arabian Shi'a Muslim, was executed in 1992. Neither he nor his family knew that he was under sentence of death or for what "crime" he had been convicted. He was apparently charged with smuggling a copy of the Bible into Saudi Arabia. He denied the charge, but was reportedly requested to convert to ******sm, an interpretation of Islam favoured by the state. When he refused, the judge was reported to have told him: "You abandon your rejectionist belief or I will kill you." On 3 September 1992 he was publicly beheaded in al-Qatif.

 

[Muezzin]

Certain people are blowing things out of proportion again...

Come on guys, it was one nutter, who was swiftly put in his place by the government!

Put things in perspective. It's good for your blood pressure.

 

[yigiter187]

Let me get this straight. You want the Bible to be banned because 1 (one) parliamentarian in Holland wants to ban the Qu'ran? Despite the fact that this would be unconstitutional and doesn't have a chance in hell of actually happening?

And you dare call the Dutch the extremists? Might I suggest you look into a mirror for that?

then only one iranian parliemanterian will want to ban bible...

ı said it on the condition that his offer will be accepted by the parliement..

if they will ban qoran then we will ban bible...

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I used to love Holland but they are acting a bit strange lately arnt they?.

its not holland, holland were pretty tolerant wiv me Alhamdulillah (and i was clearly something different in that country if u kno wat i mean)

i think its just that one stupid fat head, dont let him get to you

 

[Muezzin]

'If' being the operative word.

But since the guy with the whacked-out views was told off since they're contrary to traditional Dutch values and law, I don't think a Quran ban is likely in that country.

 

[Amadeus85]

Wilders isnt far right populist. He criticize islam as a radical liberal. Its really interesting, how many Holland citizens would agree with him.

 

[KAding]

Wilders isnt far right populist. He criticize islam as a radical liberal. Its really interesting, how many Holland citizens would agree with him.

Well, it's a bit hard to say what he is anymore. He used to be fairly reasonable when he was still a member of the liberal party in parliament. But he was evicted from the party after he refused to accept their position that Turkey might one time join the EU. He's radically against Turkey joining the EU.

Since then he has started his own party and had quite a bit of success. He became a lot more radical ever since he parted with his old party. And it's still getting worse, I really wonder how much further this will go. Like I said, I don't think anyone knows whether this is just a political strategy or if he really believes in banning the burqa or the Qu'ran. Nevertheless, his strategy seems to be working. He received about 6% of the vote in the general election last autumn. The new party is also for low taxes and small government, so you are right that he is also an economic liberal. But he transformed into a populist quite clearly. His whole strategy seems to be based on an attack against traditional politics. He portrays himself as the outsider who isn't part of the political elite. He thrives on being despised by all other political parties, I think thats the main reason why he makes remarks like these, it only strengthens his position as an 'outsider'. He knows very well that his ideas have no chance of ever being approved by a parliamentary majority.

 

[KAding]

'If' being the operative word.

But since the guy with the whacked-out views was told off since they're contrary to traditional Dutch values and law, I don't think a Quran ban is likely in that country.

It's not only not likely, it is impossible. It would be unconstitutional.

 

[Cognescenti]

It's not only not likely, it is impossible. It would be unconstitutional.

How is it that Mein Kampf is banned then? Is he wrong about that?

Nativism or Xenophobia are issues that seem to be able to peel people away from their other political views, even if they are otherwise left of center. Seems to me he is one of those??

 

[KAding]

How is it that Mein Kampf is banned then? Is he wrong about that?

Interestingly AFAIK Mein Kampf is the only book that has explicitly been banned in Holland. Obviously that has a lot to do with the Second World War, which hit Holland very hard.

Anyway, Mein Kampf is not protected by the constitutional freedom of religion, unlike the Qu'ran. Religions always have more space legally then other beliefs. Of course, the whole problem here is that Wilders basically considers Islam a political ideology, like Fascism.

Mind you, I personally believe neither Mein Kampf nor the Qu'ran should be banned.

Nativism or Xenophobia are issues that seem to be able to peel people away from their other political views, even if they are otherwise left of center. Seems to me he is one of those??

Yes, agreed. But keep in mind that 'liberals' in continental Europe are generally right-wing and in favour of the free market and free speech. Unlike the warped US definition of 'liberals', which means anyone left of centre and even includes Maoists, lol. Wilders is definitely right-wing, always has been.

Btw, I suppose this has much to do with his hate as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders
Wilders is under constant security protection because of frequent threats to his life. On 10 November 2004, two suspected terrorists were captured after an hour-long siege of a building in The Hague. They had three grenades and have been accused of planning to kill Geert Wilders as well as then fellow MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali. The men in question were presumed members of what the Dutch secret service, the AIVD, has termed the Hofstadgroep.

He had to live in an army barracks for about half a year and is under 24/7 protection. That no doubt only fuels his beliefs that Islam is a threat to the country.

 

[Darkseid]

Strict loyalty is a sign of a cult? Tell me one religion which preaches back-biting and betrayal, and I'll tell you that it is a "cult".



Problem is that Christianity preaches the same thing, a mere glance at the Bible you'll find

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death (deuteronomy 13:6-10)

So as you can clearly read, the Bible, which Christians regard as the infallible or otherwise inspired word of God, preaches that if one of your own family member, even if it is your son stops worshipping the one God and worships false gods and idols, you are to put him to death by stoning. So why are you singling out Islam? Why don't you consider Christianity to be a cult?



Islam does not teach forced conversion, if it happens, it is against the teaching of the Holy Quran: Let there be no compulsion in religion (2:256)



Flat out wrong. It seems your knowledge of Islam is quite embarrassing.



If by theocracy you mean an Islamic government, where the shariah is the law of the land, and the government's duty is to enforce and safeguard it, yes Islam promotes theocracy. Other religions, however, also promote theocracy, which explains the existence of the CHRISTIAN democratic parties in Europe, and the Religion Right's influence in American politics and government. So I ask you again, why solely pick on Islam and not Christianity? And what about Hinduism, the third largest religion after Islam and christianity. Hindu religious political parties have massive clout in India, such as the Bharatiya Janatha Party (BJP), the Shiv Sena (SS), the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), the Bajrang Dal, the RSS, and whole range of other major and minor political movements whose sole aspiration is Hindu religious dominance in the field of government in India. So by your definition, the three largest religions in the world are "Cults". But why stop there, even Sri Lankan Buddhists want a theocracy there. So what exactly is a religion in your definition? Bahaism? Give me a break.



Not only does Islam NOT promote pan-arabism, but it is against all forms of ethnic nationalism and tribalism and the false pride in one's lineage or race.

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (49:13)

Once again, another case of complete ignorance on your part.



Islam does not disapprove of scientific discoveries, but since when is evolution a scientific discovery? A large segment of Christians completely reject evolution, because their Bible says God created mankind some six thousand years ago with Adam and Eve. Is Christianity a cult for rejecting evolution as well?

Inarguably I can see your strict loyalty to the muslim faith. Thanks for proving my point.

'If' being the operative word.

But since the guy with the whacked-out views was told off since they're contrary to traditional Dutch values and law, I don't think a Quran ban is likely in that country.

Were you talking about me? Because I did say that if they plan on banning the koran, they should also ban all other religious scripture.

Now how likely will that become in the Netherlands when they have such a high christian population?

Honestly, people need to stop trying to attack me just because I was pointing out why other people see Islam as a cult.

Grow up people there is no need for any bigotry.

 

[Darkseid]

Surah 9, Verse 32.

This should be enough as a terms to peace for you!

God I love this Surah :'(

Strangely enough the Surah is only acclaimed widely as being a written source of Allah. One must wonder if any biological traces could be found indicating the truth. Perhaps if we go back in time we might see an Arabian prince or muslim (not Muhammad) actually writing the very first Surah.

Also, I am a believer of Allah (though I call him personally by another name) therefore you cannot use that verse in the Surah against me.

You must realize the potential possibility of the likelihood that I may actually be the next prophet of god by the fact that I can testimonially say that I can hear the words of god.

 

[KAding]

You must realize the potential possibility of the likelihood that I may actually be the next prophet of god by the fact that I can testimonially say that I can hear the words of god.

Huh?

 

[Darkseid]

Huh?

Now I don't actually here the words of god. I simply use reason and logic as what can be understood in an athiestic manner and then translate such into what a monotheist could understand.