Muslims converting to Christianity

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Whatsthepoint said:
Today, the term muslims stands for people who follow Islam, the Quran etc. Moses knew nothing about the Quran, it's tachings, rules etc. He was not a Mohammedan.
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Term "Mohammedan" is a non-Muslim invention. Muslims don't recognize nor acknowledge the term. So, let's skip that incorrect assertion.

The message of Tawrah (Revelation given to Moses, peace upon him) has the same message as the Qur'an, beginning with: There is god except Allah. Yes, sure, Moses was not a Mohammadan, he was a Muslim.
 
To make this easier for those who don't understand how come Abraham, Moses, Jesus, ... were Muslims.

Their belief was pure monotheism, pure belief in One True Lord, Creator of all that was created, belief in other messengers of Allah, belief in the day of Judgment, belief in angels, belief in Revelations of Allah and belief in the predestination, belief in Paradise and Hell, belief in eternal life either in Paradise or Hell, belief in resurrection, etc.

These are the basics of belief. All of them, ..., Abraham, Moses, Jesus, peace upon them all, had the very same belief.

Now, the actual Law given by Allah is a different thing. Yes, the Law of Moses was different in some things than the Law given to Jesus, he was sent to correct the distortions that Jews did to the Law of Moses. The Qur'an is the final Revelation and the final Law.

So, in short - all of those messengers had identical belief, yet the Law they were given was not the same. And the difference between the Qur'an and other Revelations is that the Qur'an is and will remain the Final Law until the day of Judgment.
 
MadeenJibreel said:
Term "Mohammedan" is a non-Muslim invention. Muslims don't recognize nor acknowledge the term. So, let's skip that incorrect assertion.

The message of Tawrah (Revelation given to Moses, peace upon him) has the same message as the Qur'an, beginning with: There is god except Allah. Yes, sure, Moses was not a Mohammadan, he was a Muslim.
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I know you don't like the term. I used it to make a distinction between muslims(those who submit themselves to the will of God - monotheists) and muslim(those who believe and follow the Quran).
I don't think the term muslim should be used for "those who submit themselves to the will of God", as it produces a lot of confusion. Either invent a new word for the muslims who follow the quran, or a new word for those who submit to the will of God.

Of course, the simialrity of some monotheistic concepts does not make all monotheists muslims. I could invent a monotheistic religion, call its followers the Bakkis (those who believe in one God) and claim Mohammad was a Bakki.
 
pure monotheism, pure belief in One True Lord, Creator of all that was created, belief in other messengers of Allah, belief in the day of Judgment, belief in angels, belief in Revelations of Allah and belief in the predestination, belief in Paradise and Hell, belief in eternal life either in Paradise or Hell, belief in resurrection, etc.

These are the basics of belief. All of them, ..., Abraham, Moses, Jesus, peace upon them all, had the very same belief.
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Moses, as a Jew, did not believe in the Day of the judgement and predestination. He didn't even believe in hell!
Of course, muslims believe the jewish and christian religious writing were altered, and I won't argue over beliefs...
Jesus never spoke of predestiantion. It is Paul, the liar, who mentions it. Jesus does mention the elects, are those islamic?
 
If there was a religion called "god believers", could they claim everyone who ever believed in any god was a follower of there religion?
 
Whatsthepoint said:
Yeah. When you say Jesus was a muslim, most people will think you are refering to the followers of the quran and the teachings of Muhammad.
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lol i see, point noted


but its important that people realise a muslim is one who does indeed submit his will to God, Al-Islaam is to achieve peace via submission to the almighty.

You keep going against the allmighty how can you expect peace when peace is only within his control and distributed with his favor?

right?

i hope you know what i mean :)
 
wilberhum said:
If there was a religion called "god believers", could they claim everyone who ever believed in any god was a follower of there religion?
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God.. singular? not Gods.. plural?

i guess that would fit under all monotheistic worshippers, unless you want to call it "god believers" and give it a completely unrelated meaning, which has been done for many words...
 
IbnAbdulHakim said:
God.. singular? not Gods.. plural?

i guess that would fit under all monotheistic worshippers, unless you want to call it "god believers" and give it a completely unrelated meaning, which has been done for many words...
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Is that "long say" for Yes, or is it "long say" for No?
 
Whatsthepoint said:
Today, the term muslims stands for people who follow Islam, the Quran etc. Moses knew nothing about the Quran, it's tachings, rules etc. He was not a Mohammedan.
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Well, yes and no. According to Wikipedia: A Muslim is an adherent of the religion of Islam. The feminine form of 'Muslim' is Muslimah. Literally, the word means "one who submits to God". Since Moses (as) submitted his will to that of God to lead the Israelites out of Egypt, then he was a Muslim even though he did not know Muhammad (saaws). We Muslims refuse to accept the title of "Mohammedan" to be applied to us.
 
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Muslim Woman said:
salaam/peace;




but Jesus (p) did not teach them about Trinity.

Jews in the past were arrogant ...they killed many Prophets (pbut ) of God . It's not that Quran only says so , Jews own holy book tells u that.
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i can't comment on what jesus taught them, but i think you are right - that the trinity was invented long after his death. as a jew, he would've found the concept blasphemous and quite foreign.
and you have a point in the 2nd statement. in fact, this is one thing that makes the tanakh quite interesting - the way the people are portrayed - they are anything but loveable! and people do not portray themselves so unfavourably. yes, they were a rather dreadful bunch! ;D
but it makes you wonder - if they altered the tanakh, why didn't they portray themselves in a better light - obedient and chaste, pious and understanding, virtuous, long suffering and full of good deeds?
my original statement was that pride was not the reason that the jews rejected jesus.
 
I find it fresh that 15 million Jews want to tell 1.86 billion Muslims how to reform so they can better fit their definition..lol

What happened with christianity will not happen with Islam... we are not followers of Prophet Mohammed (p) or any other prophet or messenger, though we use them as a model example of how we should live life, we are ultimately followers of God, that is what it means to be Muslim..don't like it tough.. we are not here to conform ourselves to the likings of dysphoric Jews, christians or even kaffirs for that matter!

cheers!
 
PurestAmbrosia said:
I find it fresh that 15 million Jews want to tell 1.86 billion Muslims how to reform so they can better fit their definition..lol

What happened with christianity will not happen with Islam... we are not followers of Prophet Mohammed (p) or any other prophet or messenger, though we use them as a model example of how we should live life, we are ultimately followers of God, that is what it means to be Muslim..don't like it tough.. we are not here to conform ourselves to the likings of dysphoric Jews, christians or even kaffirs for that matter!

cheers!
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was this directed at me? if so, i am utterly confused.
how did we get to 15 million jews trying to tell muslims etc etc?
personally, i am not trying to tell anybody anything or wanting muslims to conform to anybody's concept. :uhwhat
 
PurestAmbrosia said:
I find it fresh that 15 million Jews want to tell 1.86 billion Muslims how to reform so they can better fit their definition..lol

What happened with christianity will not happen with Islam... we are not followers of Prophet Mohammed (p) or any other prophet or messenger, though we use them as a model example of how we should live life, we are ultimately followers of God, that is what it means to be Muslim..don't like it tough.. we are not here to conform ourselves to the likings of dysphoric Jews, christians or even kaffirs for that matter!

cheers!
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:sl:

actually...we are followers of Resulullah (saws), direct order to obey him (saw) is in the Qur'an on many places.
 
snakelegs said:
was this directed at me? if so, i am utterly confused.
how did we get to 15 million jews trying to tell muslims etc etc?
personally, i am not trying to tell anybody anything or wanting muslims to conform to anybody's concept. :uhwhat
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I wasn't addressing you snakey NO.. if I had beef I'd work it out with you directly on PM
this is for the one wanting to call us 'Mohameedans'
 
MadeenJibreel said:
:sl:

actually...we are followers of Resulullah (saws), direct order to obey him (saw) is in the Qur'an on many places.
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We are going to get lost in semantics..rather than take the circuitous, I'll say.. thank you for teaching me something new today?..
my comment however was in regard to why we aren't called 'Mohammedans' such as the followers of christ are called 'christians' ...

One leads to Allah and the other leads to man-worship!

I'll take myself out of this right about now, since I am not interested in proving other than point I have already made!


waslaam 3lykoum wr wb
 
MadeenJibreel said:
:sl:

actually...we are followers of Resulullah (saws), direct order to obey him (saw) is in the Qur'an on many places.
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So whats the difference between Mohammedan and Muslim? (according to your logic) none!

follower of islam: A Muslim
follower of (Paulean) Christ: ?
follower of Budha: ?
and so on...

I have come across many a goofy who used same reasoning as you, when one tries to stop them from chanting Ya RasulAllah or Ya Ali madad etc.

one dam*ed slippery slope!
 
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:sl: to all Muslims here,

intermezzo: if you don't agree we must follow Rasulullah (saws) then you have a problem. Please solve it before it's too late.

And PS Following him (saws) is ordered directly by Allah (swt), we Muslims surely should know HOW to follow him - who's talking about worshiping a human astagfirullah?
 
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NoName55 said:
So whats the difference between Mohammedan and Muslim? (according to your logic) none!

follower of islam: A Muslim
follower of (Paulean) Christ: ?
follower of Budha: ?
and so on...

I have come across many a goofy who used same reasoning as you, when one tries to stop them from chanting Ya RasulAllah or Ya Ali madad etc.

one dam*ed slippery slope!
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I never said Ya meded nor I will, inshaAllah.
The difference between Mohammedan and Muslim is that ALLAH (SWT) calls us Muslims, and never calls us Mohammedan. Now I hope you don't go against that?!?

And if you don't love Rasulullah (saws), then you're not a real Muslim, in fact, you gotta love him (saws) more than yourself, your mother, your father or any other human being. But loving him doesn't mean worshiping him, far away from that.

Say: "If you love Allah, then follow me and Allah will love you and forgive your sins." (Surah Al 'Imran: 31)

One who has taken a vow of allegiance to the Prophet (saas) has taken it to Allah (swt).
Our Lord also tells us that: "Whoever obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah." (Surat an-Nisa': 80)

You should accept whatever the Messenger gives you and abandon whatever he tells you to abandon. Have taqwa of Allah... (Surat al-Hashr: 7)

O you who believe, obey Allah, the Messenger, and those in command among you. If you disagree about something, refer it back to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best thing to do and gives the best result. (Surat an-Nisa': 59)

No, by your Lord, they are not believers until they make you their judge in the disputes that break out between them and then do not resist what you decide and submit themselves [to you] completely. (Surat an-Nisa': 65)

When Allah and His Messenger have decided something, no believing man or woman has a choice about [following or not following] it. Anyone who disobeys Allah and His Messenger is clearly misguided. (Surat al-Ahzab: 36)

But if anyone opposes the Messenger after the guidance has become clear to him, and follows a path other than that of the believers, We will hand him over to whatever he has turned to, and We will roast him in Hell. What an evil destination! (Surat an-Nisa': 115)

O you who believe, respond to Allah and to the Messenger when He calls you to what will bring you to life. Know that Allah intervenes between a person and his heart and that you will be gathered to Him. (Surat al-Anfal: 24)
 
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