'Lyrical terrorist' convicted for jihad poems

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I'm a bit late replying to this one, but here goes:

You say you are horrified at her behaviour. What is her behaviour? writing lyrics?

And possessing instructions in bomb making. And hate literature. And praising Al-Qaeda. And looking for all the world like she'd like nothing better than to blow up a few kaffirs.

If you think it's acceptable for a Muslim to behave in this way, and you're happy to defend her in a public forum, I'm genuinely shocked.

Right across the UK hundreds of thousands of poems are written or have been written about the IRA- no one was arrested for them. Shouldnt u b horrified at that?

Any behaviour, written or otherwise, that glorifies, promotes and threatens violence is horrifying to me.

Thousands of poems and articles and books glorying wars that kill and are killing hundreds of blacks and Asians are written- again no one bats an eyelid- shouldnt u b horrified at that?

Where? I haven't seen any of these writings, but they obviously don't sound pleasant. Do you assume that I wouldn't condemn them if I knew about them?

The Zionists in press article after press article demand war on Iran that will kill a million more people then any terrorist attack- not a single arrest. isn't that something to b horrified about?

I'm sure it is, although, as usual, I'd question your blame of the Zionists. There are a lot of different shades of idiot talking about war with Iran.

You seem to be making all sorts of assumptions about what I believe or don't believe. Why?

She had some questionable material

Is that what you'd call it?

but her poems and writing hardly pose a threat to the nation.

A court ruled (by a majority of ten to one, we are told) that she did, and I agree with them. Do you not have even a smidgeon of condemnation for her, or would you let her off the hook completely? Can't you see that people like her do far more damage to the reputation of Islam than works of literature like 'The Satanic Verses' (which I bet you haven't even read) or tasteless cartoons from Denmark?

The government is trying to create a climate of fear and the neo cons like Policy Exchange are joining in hence the Satanic Verses and the blasphemous cartoons are ok because they represent free speech but Muslim literature is not ok. Complete hypocrisy.

Muslim literature is fine, as long as it doesn't directly glorify, promote or threaten violence. If a non-Muslim were to write out plans for attacking Muslims, that would be equally objectionable.

Peace

 

[MTAFFI]

;D:scared: you sound a bit terrifying in your own right - a believer in "pre-emptive strikes".

LOL I apologize, I am not sure why it bothered me so much, I am really not such a terrifying person.. (nothing wrong with a pre-emptive strike as long as the strike is based on solid fact OR what could be a definite threat to my survival)

on a more serious note, it is interesting that on this thread, if i remember right - it was mostly the muslims here who pointed out that this is far more serious than mere poetry or freedom of speech issues - she had bomb making material!

I would agree with that and add that there are intelligent people and others whose bulbs may not be so bright. The usual sound minded individuals have sounded off and pointed out the information that is important and the others have tried to make their case on discrimination, media hype, islamophobia and comparisons of someone like this to rappers, it just gets old. Lets not pass the blame or try to compare it to something else that is wrong, what she did was wrong, accept acknowledge and move on

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Yeah, but I see it as double standards when some high ranking BNP member had firearms and gunpowder stashed away in his attic can get away with it and someone with a switch in his toolbox is taken in for 3 months on the suspicion of 'He could have used to it make a bomb'. In that case, I think every house in Britain is a threat. Good Lord no.

That does sound unfair. Have you any more details about this BNP case?

Peace

 

[Isambard]

As pointed out, The reason I believe she was taken in, is not only about she talking about killing ppl, its cause shes talking about killing ppl AND LEARNING about how to do with thru manuels.

Trying a Muhammed cartoon is not comparable unless the cartoon says how glorious it is to kill muslims and I went into detail on how to go about it.

Think of it like this.

If I write poems about my neighbour, thats creepy but fine. If I write poems about my neighbour and have a list of the time shes at home/sleeping/favroite hang outs, thats considered stalking and Ill be locked up.

Please stop referrring to strawmen arguements.

 

[MTAFFI]

Yeah, but I see it as double standards when some high ranking BNP member had firearms and gunpowder stashed away in his attic can get away with it and someone with a switch in his toolbox is taken in for 3 months on the suspicion of 'He could have used to it make a bomb'. In that case, I think every house in Britain is a threat. Good Lord no.

I would agree and disagree, I do not dispute that Muslims are at a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to being targeted for crimes right now, in fact I would say it is safe to say that there are Muslims around the world who have been under the watchful eye of the law, even if they never had a thought of causing any trouble. With that said it must also be understood that because of the recent events this was bound to happen. The terrorists attacks have all been by so called Muslims, who claim to be waging "jihad" against the west and who use their religion as an excuse. The BNP member, appears to be a raving madman, but in some articles it says he wanted it for his protection, and this his wife overheard him saying things, which is hearsay and cant really be used, that said these guys are probably better off locked up than out on the street. I am not sure about the guy with the switch, but I am sure the police didnt raid his house or whatever they did because they heard he had a switch, I would guess there was some sort of report that was disturbing from someone and police were following a lead and just ran across the switch.

If you think about it, before 9/11 Muslims in western countries were just another person on the street, not a lot of people really even knew much about Palestine or the wars and anger that had been building in the mid east for such a long time. The second that a group used their religion to distinguish themselves, they made everyone else a part of that group and thus made everyone a black sheep to be scrutinized and demonized by the general public, because really what else is there to go on? There is no physical distinction, it is only mental and I dont think anyone can read minds so how is anyone to know? It is human nature to judge and with people like this girl out there it only makes it worse, because it simply proves that you just never know.

I think the only way that Muslims will not be on the constant watchlist is for true muslims to somehow distinguish themselves in a visible way to the public, and I am not saying that Muslim communities arent trying, I am saying that they are not always visible to the public. The Lord only knows how that may happen... it is a sad cruel world.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Thanks for all that info, Iqram. It certainly does look very unfair, in the light of other prosecutions for similar offences.

It does seem from the reports that what may have swung the jury is the 'self-protection' defence. Aside from one or two bits of hearsay about the proposed targets, there is little, on the face of it, to suggest an potential offensive attack. That's obviously different from someone who has written about how they want to cut off people's heads and so on. However, these BNP people are clearly dangerous and I worry about the fact that they're free to roam the streets.

However, I don't know all the facts in the case, so I could be wrong about this - I'm just suggesting why the jury might have made the decision they did. It's quite possible that they did have plans to kill, say, black people or Muslims, or whoever, and that this was unreported.

I disagree with the jury's decision (based only on what I've read in those reports), and I think you've brought up a very good point - there does seem to be a clear double standard here.

Peace

 

[Abu Musab]

this thread deserves to be binned

 

[MTAFFI]

Right, so called muslims! Couldn't have said it better myself. I know nobody likes these conspiracies, but think about it, they went on two wars because of this. One thing lead to another?

When I say so called muslims, I am talking about those who claim to be doing something in the name of a religion that blatantly forbids exactly what they are doing. They may claim to be muslim but they are no better than the ones they hate, personally I would prefer to use the term "arab" as a way to label the terrorist rather than Muslim, since to a Muslim the crimes being committed are against their religion and to many Arabs these acts are simply a way of life.

And no they didn't raid his house because of the switch, they raided his house and they found the switch and made a big deal.

Honestly I dont know any of the facts and I am not sure what story you are talking about, if you would like to post the article then I will comment on it further with whatever limited amount of knowledge I can gain from it

Was being rather immature, yes.

The girl or the post? The girl went past immature with the books, material and language, she made herself a threat all on her own and should have known better. The post was just meant to put it very straight forward and to the point.

Yes, and I've had enough of it all. No don't worry, I'm not going to ...

As far as the BNP is concerned...Another Nazi Party in the making?

Not going to? To distinguish yourself or do something against the cruel world? I hope you do choose to distinguish yourself, as far as the other is concerned it will only last for a period of time and then it will be over, there is always someone or some group being labeled or attacked, just do the best you can to be a good person and eventually it will fall back into place

As far as the BNP is concerned, i cant say I follow british politics to much or their far right groups or movements, however if they are all like this guy and his accomplice, I would say a Nazi party would be the least of worries.

 

[nevesirth]

lets Also Convict Anybody Who Supports George Bush, The Mass Murderer.

 

[nevesirth]

deleted

 

[nevesirth]

deleted

 

[------]

:salamext:

I understand brother, but there's a way to stand up for oneself lol

 

[Cognescenti]

lets Also Convict Anybody Who Supports George Bush, The Mass Murderer.

Clever addition to the discussion.

 

[Cognescenti]

:salamext:

What I don't get, is why people can't understand that She might be interested in it, not planning on how to make it!

Look. Let's say I am an airplane enthusiast and I build myself a working model of a Me-110, but I am only interested in the plane from esthetic point of view so I don't install machine guns or bomb racks. Now, let's further imagine it is 1940, and I decide to take it up for a spin over London............

 

[Cognescenti]

Originally Posted by Iqram

Yeah, but I see it as double standards when some high ranking BNP member had firearms and gunpowder stashed away in his attic can get away with it and someone with a switch in his toolbox is taken in for 3 months on the suspicion of 'He could have used to it make a bomb'. In that case, I think every house in Britain is a threat. Good Lord no.

I don't think the BNP thing was covered up. I heard about it in the US. Didn't you just post info that the pair were tried by authorities but the jury was unable to convict? It seems to me you can't blame the authorities for applying a double standard in this case. You may have an argument that the jurors were discinclined to convict based on biases.

The law permitting detention on suspicion alone is amazingly broad and is certainly open to abuse. I can agree with you on that. Clearly, if one falls within a group "of interest" in the UK, one would be advised to keep a low profile.

 

[cihad]

All of this brings to mind the hymns sung at my school assemblies:

onward Christian soldiers marching as to war...
with the cross of jesus going on before...

hmmmmmmmmmmm?

 

[AhlaamBella]

I read this story in the Metro on the bus
I admit it looks bad. but I think (if its true of course) calling herself the 'Lyrical terrorist' is just asking for trouble.

 

[Cognescenti]

All of this brings to mind the hymns sung at my school assemblies:

onward Christian soldiers marching as to war...
with the cross of jesus going on before...

hmmmmmmmmmmm?

Not bad..not bad, but clearly a stretch. It is a similie. You see...they aren't really soldiers and they aren't really going to war. :sunny:


Of course, "chop, chop the head of the kuffar swine" could be metaphorical :?

 

[wilberhum]

All of this brings to mind the hymns sung at my school assemblies:

onward Christian soldiers marching as to war...
with the cross of jesus going on before...

hmmmmmmmmmmm?

A Muslim singing "onward Christian soldiers". Interesting.

So you know it is about triumph over Satan and he11, not your fellow man.

 

[barney]

All of this brings to mind the hymns sung at my school assemblies:

onward Christian soldiers marching as to war...
with the cross of jesus going on before...

hmmmmmmmmmmm?

Noo, noo, you see its all been misinterpreted! Christianity is a peaceful religion! It's meant to be a War on sin within ones own soul!

Gotta love it when the tables get turned!