The brains of gay men and women look like those found in heterosexual people of the opposite sex, research suggests.
The Swedish study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal, compared the size of the brain's halves in 90 adults.
Gay men and heterosexual women had halves of a similar size, while the right side was bigger in lesbian women and heterosexual men.
A UK scientist said this was evidence sexual orientation was set in the womb.
As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay Queen Mary, University of London
Scientists have noticed for some time that homosexual people of both sexes have differences in certain cognitive abilities, suggesting there may be subtle differences in their brain structure.
This is the first time, however, that scientists have used brain scanners to try to look for the source of those differences.
A group of 90 healthy gay and heterosexual adults, men and women, were scanned by the Karolinska Institute scientists to measure the volume of both sides, or hemispheres, of their brain.
When these results were collected, it was found that lesbians and heterosexual men shared a particular "asymmetry" in their hemisphere size, while heterosexual women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain.
In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.
A further experiment found that in one particular area of the brain, the amygdala, there were other significant differences.
In heterosexual men and gay women, there were more nerve "connections" in the right side of the amygdala, compared with the left.
The reverse, with more neural connections in the left amygdala, was the case in homosexual men and heterosexual women.
The Karolinska team said that these differences could not be mainly explained by "learned" effects, but needed another mechanism to set them, either before or after birth.
'Fight, flight or mate'
Dr Qazi Rahman, a lecturer in cognitive biology at Queen Mary, University of London, said that he believed that these brain differences were laid down early in foetal development.
"As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay," he said.
The amygdala, he said, was important because of its role in "orientating", or directing, the rest of the brain in response to an emotional stimulus - be it during the "fight or flight" response, or the presence of a potential mate.
"In other words, the brain network which determines what sexual orientation actually 'orients' towards is similar between gay men and straight women, and between gay women and straight men.
"This makes sense given that gay men have a sexual preference which is like that of women in general, that is, preferring men, and vice versa for lesbian women."
Last edited by Uthman; 06-17-2008 at 06:57 PM.
Reason: Link removed
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
You are still not addressing the drug analogy. Explain why your analogy is different than the drugs analogy. Or you believe drugs should be allowed freely?
I don't understand your drug analogy. You are talking about somebody who dislikes drugs (similar to a homosexual who dislikes(sexually) the opposite sex), but then forcing them to to take drugs as it is the only acceptable way (forcing homosexuals to only like the opposite sex, whom they aren't attracted to).
If homosexuals get married, how does it affect you? It doesn't. Let them do what they want as long as they are happy and aren't negatively affecting anything.
This thread has completely diverted from its original path..
let's recap then we can close it!
two opinions, you can fall into the category of choice and let it rest!
Being gay is a form of sexual deviation, as originally defined by the DSM before the new age wave... It is a sin religiousely speaking! No more on the matter needs to be said..
Like knowing that pre-marital or extra marital sex is wrong without an institution
or consciousely disengaging from a pederast act with a consenting 13 year old, or taking more than one consenting wife, you understand the difference of what it is against religious law and what goes against state law..
On the other hand, you can let 'state law' define your morality and are ok with homosexuals gyrating their bodies whilst wearing blindingly colorful speedos in front of your three year olds, because they really can't help it...
Homosexuality isn't a choice to you, and certainly we have seen examples of that when ann heche decided she was no longer a lesbian, left her female lover Ellen DeGeneres to become hetrosexual again, or when George Micheal decided to forgo women for lewd acts in public for which he was arrested more than once...
No, it is as the scans on those ninty folks tell us, an inborn trait..
with that I hope we are done here!
Last edited by جوري; 06-26-2008 at 06:00 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
You are talking about somebody who dislikes drugs (similar to a homosexual who dislikes(sexually) the opposite sex)
Nope: similar to a heterosexual who dislikes(sexually) the same sex.
format_quote Originally Posted by Tornado
but then forcing them to to take drugs as it is the only acceptable way (forcing homosexuals to only like the opposite sex, whom they aren't attracted to)
Nope: forcing heterosexual to only like the same sex, whom they aren't attracted to.
It was a parallel to your analogy that you were giving to the sister here.
format_quote Originally Posted by Tornado
If homosexuals get married, how does it affect you? It doesn't. Let them do what they want as long as they are happy and aren't negatively affecting anything.
How does drug additicts taking drugs affect me either?
It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).
I think it has run it's course. I think it's a great example that Islamaphobia and homophobia are both the same thing, they are both grounded in ignorance. Islam to me appears more homophobic than any other religion on this planet.
If you guys want to end the thread, then I'll explain without going into step by step.
(1) I see a problem with his analogy. He assumed female will have a healthy relationship with male, which goes against what he is trying to show here. I don't know why he would use that analogy.
(2) Perhaps he was trying to show that heterosexual can't be homo so neither can homo be hetero. Now that doesn't show that they are born with it? His analogy is about likes and dislikes rather than if a person is born with it. Not to mention he is comparing with a healthy choice with unhealthy choice. Naturally most people will prefer healthy choice, it doesn't add to his argument if these people can't take unhealthy choice. But anyway lets move forward.
(3) In OP it is said that homos have a different brain so it should be acceptable. Well brain of drug addicts are different too.
There are many biological factors that are involved with the addicted brain. "The addicted brain is distinctly different from the nonaddicted brain, as manifested by changes in brain metabolic activity, receptor availability, gene expression, and responsiveness to environmental cues."
(4) If their society accepts homosexuality, fine, it is their society. But Muslim society don't need to accept it which they consider against the natural order created by God. Many western countries are now paying for birth to increase their population. Tell me which muslim country pays to increase their population. If these lifestyles are going against natural selection and evolution then what there is to add what is natural and what is not.
adios
Last edited by Chuck; 06-26-2008 at 07:08 PM.
It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).
Here is a guy who draws assimilations between religion and a deviant sexual act..
Do we really need to keep this going? further do you really need members like that aboard?
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
u can refer to koran(Quran) the tafseer translated arabic to English....! u will know that God the Allah punished the people of Prophet Luth....people going to be gay...and God Sent down the stone rain onto the people who doing homosex..(in Sodom and Gomorrah)....Allah turn the world upside down....and the homosex people trapped into the water....now is called Dead Sea....!the dead sea if peope going there u swim u will not be drowned! and this is the lesson that teach the peoples who on that centurY!
I think it has run it's course. I think it's a great example that Islamaphobia and homophobia are both the same thing, they are both grounded in ignorance. Islam to me appears more homophobic than any other religion on this planet.
Nuff said me thinks.
I don't know about more homophobic, but I do think it's very sad that there is even a discussion like this
Wouldn't the fact that there are much less gays in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, prove that people arent born gay?
the fact that there are less openly gay people in the KSA proves that the KSA is a repressive country.
Some say that the fact gay people exist in countries like SA is a proof enough gays are born that way..
Wouldn't the fact that there are much less gays in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, prove that people arent born gay?
It doesn't. Coming out and admitting that you are gay or a lesbian is harder to do in Saudi Arabia that it would be to do in a society where it's more acceptable. If anything, the scans pretty much prove people are born that way.
the fact that there are less openly gay people in the KSA proves that the KSA is a repressive country.
Some say that the fact gay people exist in countries like SA is a proof enough gays are born that way..
Okay, theres 25 million gays in the United States alone, thats like 12 percent. I know that theres not that many gays in KSA. Maybe a few here and there but not anywhere near 12 percent. And of the gays in KSA, barely any probably commit sodomy, which is the what is actually punishable by religions.
Being gay is a form of sexual deviation, as originally defined by the DSM before the new age wave... It is a sin religiousely speaking! No more on the matter needs to be said..
I thought the homosexual act was prohibited, not the state of being homosexual itself.
As for it's classification, are we to accept medical progress only so long as the Islamic world agrees with the outcome?
format_quote Originally Posted by Skye Ephémérine
On the other hand, you can let 'state law' define your morality and are ok with homosexuals gyrating their bodies whilst wearing blindingly colorful speedos in front of your three year olds, because they really can't help it...
State law and morality should probably be two separate things, each person's morality is subjective and individual.
On the issue of homosexuals gyrating in front of three year olds, perhaps the parents should take responsibility for where their children are and what they're doing.
If it's genuinely lewd behaviour in public, most countries have laws against that.
Chuck
Many drugs are available freely, alcohol, nicotine, why pick drugs? Why not forcing people to eat cake if they don't want to? I think you're just trying to play on the extra revulsion factor that muslims will have towards drug use.
When discussing sex between heterosexuals, is the physical act all that matters? Surely in Islam sex is not something that happens independently, it must be within marriage between loving partners. Most people would see the sexual act as an integral part of a normal relationship, why must you separate it out into a purely mechanical act when it comes to homosexuals?
Are you ok with homosexuals who live together and have an otherwise full relationship but without the sex?
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
(1) I see a problem with his analogy. He assumed female will have a healthy relationship with male, which goes against what he is trying to show here. I don't know why he would use that analogy.
He assumed the poster was heterosexual. Being a female muslim arguing against homosexuality I don't think that's too bad an assumption.
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
(2) Perhaps he was trying to show that heterosexual can't be homo so neither can homo be hetero. Now that doesn't show that they are born with it?
He was illustrating that one can't choose who they're sexually attracted to. Try it out.
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
(3) In OP it is said that homos have a different brain so it should be acceptable. Well brain of drug addicts are different too.
So different people are susceptible to different things, where are you going with that?
format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck
(4) If their society accepts homosexuality, fine, it is their society. But Muslim society don't need to accept it which they consider against the natural order created by God. Many western countries are now paying for birth to increase their population. Tell me which muslim country pays to increase their population. If these lifestyles are going against natural selection and evolution then what there is to add what is natural and what is not.
Is pumping out babies somehow more worthy than being a productive citizen in an economic sense? What does population growth have to do with morality? Since when did you start arguing on the basis of evolution? Define 'natural'.
format_quote Originally Posted by Shakoor15
Okay, theres 25 million gays in the United States alone, thats like 12 percent. I know that theres not that many gays in KSA. Maybe a few here and there but not anywhere near 12 percent. And of the gays in KSA, barely any probably commit sodomy, which is the what is actually punishable by religions.
Interesting you use the USA as an example since they are the most religious of the Western nations and should by your reasoning have the lowest rates of homosexuality.
I think your last sentence gives you the answer, sodomy is punishable in KSA, so why would gays openly admit to it?
If anything, the scans pretty much prove people are born that way.
Really? I must have missed the part in the article where it said the researchers went back in time to scan the brains of the gay people as babies to figure out if they were different at birth as well...:blind:
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As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay
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