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  1. #1
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    Ibn Khaldun’s Evolution Theory (OP)

    Salam. Since the subject is heated frequently here and everywhere I thought it is a good idea to discuss its Islamic roots if there is any. I personally believe that evolution is real and it perfectly explains the creation. All the confusion comes from some misinterpretations of Quran and older scriptures. Ibn Khaldun was the first evolutionist in the history of Islam and most probably Darwin was influenced by him. He thought the creation of man does not contradict with the idea of men coming from apes.


    “It should be known that we – May God guide you and us – notice that this world with all the created things in it has a certain order and solid construction. It shows nexuses between causes and things caused, combinations of some parts of creation with others, and transformations of some existent things into others, in a pattern that is both remarkable and endless.


    One should then look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals. The last stage of minerals is connected with the first stage of plants, such as herbs and seedless plants. The last stage of plants, such as palms and vines, is connected with the first stage of animals, such as snails and shellfish which have only the power of touch. The word “connection” with regard to these created things means that the last stage of each group is fully prepared to become the first stage of the next group.

    The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and to reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of the monkeys, in which both sagacity and perception are found, but which has not reached the stage of actual reflection and thinking. At this point we come to the first stage of man after (the world of monkeys). This is as far as our (physical) observation extends.

    Now, in the various worlds we find manifold influences. In the world of sensual perception there are certain influences of the motions of the spheres and the elements. In the world of creation there are certain influences of the motions of growth and perception. All this is evidence of the fact that there is something that exercises an influence and is different from the bodily substances. This is something spiritual. It is connected with the created things, because the various worlds must be connected in their existence. This spiritual thing is the soul, which has perception and causes motion.

    Above the soul there must exist something else that gives the soul the power of perception and motion, and that is also connected with it. Its essence should be pure perception and absolute intellection. This is the world of the angels. The soul, consequently, must be prepared to exchange humanity for angelicality, in order actually to become part of the angelic species at certain times in the flash of a moment. This happens after the spiritual essence of the soul has become perfect in actuality, as we shall mention later on“
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    Ibn Khaldun’s Evolution Theory

    “Either seem as you are or be as you seem” Rumi

  2. #41
    Abz2000's Avatar
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    Re: Ibn Khaldun’s Evolution Theory

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    People in the know knew through the overwhelming amount of prophecies that the Messiah (whose parable is that of Adam) would come to earth just as they knew that Moses would come to earth, but did these individuals just appear as grown ups or did they come through natural (sometimes slightly extraordinary) live births and go through the many of the fitnahs which other people go through?

    Did Moses know he was the Prophet Moses until the time Allah spoke to him when he needed comfort and guidance? Qadr is difficult to fathom but it does work alongside actual choices does it not?
    I believe Qadr is a lot more difficult to comprehend and explain than something as simple as evolution.

    Innee jaa'ilun fi al ard i khaleefah.
    Then they ate of the forbidden tree.
    Then they got evicted.
    Then they turned up and met in another dimension - and their dna is very close to that of apes and swine - the two critters mentioned in the Quran which was revealed 1,400 years ago (long before dna sequencing) to an illiterate ex shepherd boy who would turn out to be the most observantly followed man in the universe.

    Do i think that humans descended directly from apes and swine? No.
    Do i think that apes and swine may be descended from close common ancestors who disappeared in the early ages of competitive tribal warfare (read up on the favouring of certain tribes which continued up until the revelation of the Quran for All of humankind)? A high probability.

    32. Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger.: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.
    33. Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above 'aalamimeen (all creation),-
    34. Offspring, one of the other: And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
    35. Behold! a woman of 'Imran said: "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: So accept this of me: For Thou hearest and knowest all things."

    From quran Chapter 3

    Do i think that there was a gradual sifting of creatures until Adam's soul on earth heard the guidance? A high probability given all the skeletons of ancient sub-human species that are being found regularly.

    I don't know the unseen in that regard and am not required to make a certain judgement on it in order to choose between universal right and wrong actions so i will keep my mind open on the topic.

    One thing i am certain of though is that Jesus did not appear on earth like arnold schwarzenegger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIeuBPDUzB0
    (Though some arrogant people still want to see God come with angels in ghamaam (clouds) (were you looking for God? - or were you looking for the individual in a red bloody ihram?) and like to watch and focus on anti-Christ and anti-God algorithms and perspiration fall when the head is lowered and beads like pearls scatter for the taking when the head is raised - forgetting that it's dogs clinging to the earth that eat from under the table). Inna maa futintum bih wa rabbukum ar Rahmaan.
    Wasn't the dream of the two shoulders at ka'bah enough of a sign?
    But then - some people live in the moment and forget that generations come and go - and that continually available eternal salvation (fount of living water) comes from following the guidance of Allah with unity, just as others think that rivers of milk and honey exist in a blood drenched land filled with injustice and corruption.

    The day they see the angels - no glad tidings to the unjust "suspected witch" dunkers.

    The people of kafiristan are dismayed when they realize that the man who would be king is neither God - nor devil, but then - it is only in the land of the totally blind that only a one eyed man must be king and guide.

    Ye blind guides - what is more sacred? The gift or the being that sanctifies the gift?

    Umm Salama, a wife of Muhammad, is quoted as saying that;
    His [the Mahdi's] aim is to establish a moral system from which all superstitious faiths have been eliminated. In the same way that students enter Islam, so unbelievers will come to believe.

    When the Mahdi appears, Allah will cause such power of vision and hearing to be manifested in believers that the Mahdi will call to the whole world from where he is, with no postman involved, and they will hear and even see him.

    Amr bin Shuaib reported from his grandfather that the Messenger of Allah said:
    In Dhu al-Qi'dah (Islamic month), there will be fight among the tribes, Muslim pilgrims will be looted and there will be a battle in Mina in which many people will be slain and blood will flow until it runs over the Jamaratul Aqba (one of the three stone pillars at Mina). The man they seek will flee and will be found between the Rukn (a corner of the Kaaba containing the Black Stone) and the Maqam of Prophet Abraham (near Ka'ba). He will be forced to accept people's Bay'ah (being chosen as a Leader/Caliph). The number of those offering Bay'ah will be the same as the number of the people of Badr (Muslim fighters who participated in the Battle of Badr at time of Prophet Mohammad). Then, the dweller of Heaven and the dweller of the Earth will be pleased with him.[40]

    22“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

    26“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
    27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
    28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

    29“Immediately after the distress of those days

    “ ‘the sun will be darkened,
    and the moon will not give its light;
    the stars will fall from the sky,
    and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’b
    30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthc will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

    From Matthew 24

    He is in the east, in the east, in the east. - who? oh still confused?

    1. When the sun (with its spacious light) is folded up;
    2. When the stars fall, losing their lustre;
    3. When the mountains vanish (like a mirage);
    4. When the she-camels, ten months with young, are left untended;
    5. When the wild beasts are herded together (in the human habitations);
    6. When the oceans boil over with a swell;
    7. When the souls are sorted out, (being joined, like with like);
    8. When the female (infant), buried alive, is questioned -
    9. For what crime she was killed;
    10. When the scrolls are laid open;
    11. When the world on High is unveiled;
    12. When the Blazing Fire is kindled to fierce heat;
    13. And when the Garden is brought near;-
    14. (Then) shall each soul know what it has put forward.
    15. So verily I call to witness the planets - that recede,
    16. Go straight, or hide;
    17. And the Night as it dissipates;
    18. And the Dawn as it breathes away the darkness;-
    19. Verily this is the word of a most honourable Messenger,
    20. Endued with Power, with rank before the Lord of the Throne,
    21. With authority there, (and) faithful to his trust.
    22. And (O people!) your companion is not one possessed;
    23. And without doubt he saw him in the clear horizon.
    24. Neither doth he withhold grudgingly a knowledge of the Unseen.
    25. Nor is it the word of an evil spirit accursed.
    26. When whither go ye?
    27. Verily this is no less than a Message to (all) the Worlds:
    28. (With profit) to whoever among you wills to go straight:
    29. But ye shall not will except as Allah wills,- the Cherisher of the Worlds.

    Quran Chapter 81

    10However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. 11Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus and asking, “Where is he?”

    12Among the crowds there was widespread whispering about him. Some said, “He is a good man.”

    Others replied, “No, he deceives the people.” 13But no one would say anything publicly about him for fear of the leaders.

    Jesus Teaches at the Festival

    14Not until halfway through the festival did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach. 15The Jews there were amazed and asked, “How did this man get such learning without having been taught?”

    16Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. 17Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. 18Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. 19Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?”

    20“You are demon-possessed,” the crowd answered. “Who is trying to kill you?”

    21Jesus said to them, “I did one miracle, and you are all amazed. 22Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath. 23Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath?

    24Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.”

    Division Over Who Jesus Is

    25At that point some of the people of Jerusalem began to ask,
    “Isn’t this the man they are trying to kill?
    26Here he is, speaking publicly, and they are not saying a word to him. Have the authorities really concluded that he is the Messiah? 27But we know where this man is from; when the Messiah comes, no one will know where he is from.”

    28Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, cried out, “Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. I am not here on my own authority, but he who sent me is true. You do not know him, 29but I know him because I am from him and he sent me.”

    From John 7

    New International Version
    "Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.

    New Living Translation
    Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven. And everyone will see him--even those who pierced him. And all the nations of the world will mourn for him. Yes! Amen!

    English Standard Version
    Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

    Revelation 1:7

    Who? God? Or the man in the blood soaked ihram? - a day of mourning for ALL the unjust..

    هَلْ يَنظُرُونَ إِلَّا أَن يَأْتِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ فِي ظُلَلٍ مِّنَ الْغَمَامِ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ وَقُضِيَ الْأَمْرُ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ تُرْجَعُ الْأُمُورُ

    Muhammad Asad
    Are these people waiting, perchance, for God to reveal Himself unto them in the shadows of the clouds, together with the angels - although [by then] all will have been decided, and unto God all things will have been brought back?

    M. M. Pickthall
    Wait they for naught else than that Allah should come unto them in the shadows of the clouds with the angels? Then the case would be already judged. All cases go back to Allah (for judgment).

    Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)
    Will they wait until Allah comes to them in canopies of clouds, with angels (in His train) and the question is (thus) settled? but to Allah do all questions go back (for decision).

    Quran 2:210

    وَقَالَ الَّذِينَ لَا يَرْجُونَ لِقَاءَنَا لَوْلَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا الْمَلَائِكَةُ أَوْ نَرَىٰ رَبَّنَا لَقَدِ اسْتَكْبَرُوا فِي أَنفُسِهِمْ وَعَتَوْا عُتُوًّا كَبِيرًا

    Muhammad Asad
    But those who do not believe that they are destined to meet Us are wont to say, “Why have no angels been sent down to us?” – or, “Why do we not see our Sustainer?” Indeed, they are far too proud of themselves, having rebelled [against God’s truth] with utter disdain!

    M. M. Pickthall
    And those who look not for a meeting with Us say: Why are angels not sent down unto us and (Why) do we not see our Lord! Assuredly they think too highly of themselves and are scornful with great pride.

    Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)
    Such as fear not the meeting with Us (for Judgment) say: "Why are not the angels sent down to us, or (why) do we not see our Lord?" Indeed they have an arrogant conceit of themselves, and mighty is the insolence of their impiety!

    يَوْمَ يَرَوْنَ الْمَلَائِكَةَ لَا بُشْرَىٰ يَوْمَئِذٍ لِّلْمُجْرِمِينَ وَيَقُولُونَ حِجْرًا مَّحْجُورًا

    Muhammad Asad
    [Yet] on that Day - the Day on which they shall see the angels there will be no glad tiding for those who were lost in sin; and they will exclaim, “By a forbidding ban [are we from God’s grace debarred]!”

    M. M. Pickthall
    On the day when they behold the angels, on that day there will be no good tidings for the guilty; and they will cry: A forbidding ban!

    Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)
    The Day they see the angels,- no joy will there be to the sinners that Day: The (angels) will say: "There is a barrier forbidden (to you) altogether!"

    Quran 25:21-22

    Phew - i'm on a roll today.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 06-14-2018 at 06:19 PM.
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    Ibn Khaldun’s Evolution Theory

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  4. #42
    Junon's Avatar
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    Re: Ibn Khaldun’s Evolution Theory


    Not sure where to post this as there are quite a few threads on evolution. Rather than make a new thread I'll post this here. Vox takes a sceptical view on the whole concept of evolution.

    Last edited by Junon; 01-30-2019 at 08:15 PM.

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