Friendly Atheist

Hi, everyone! I am an atheist in the USA, and I've joined this site so I have a place to come when I have questions about Islam and Muslims. I'm not here to try to talk anyone out of their beliefs, although I do not agree with the beliefs of the majority on this site, I strongly believe in the freedom of conscience to choose what you hold sacred, in peace.

I'm not looking to be converted either, if Allah exists, he will have to see to that himself.

I'm exposed to a lot of conservative Christians (and some liberal atheists) who have a low opinion or fear of Islam. I don't share that opinion, but I may share some of their claims on occasion to find out what your response is. It is not my intent to offend anyone by doing so, I am genuinely seeking answers.

I have many friends who are Bantus from Somalia who are Muslims, but I have more contact with the children than the adults. The adults may be good scholars of Islam, but their children's English is much better. I feel I will be able to get answers better expressed in English here.

Thanks in advance for letting me participate in your forum; I look forward to productive conversations.

welcome, we have many friendly atheists here that you can join

I joined this forum as a non-Muslim and never once did I encounter any hostility from anyone here.

You're in good hands here.

welcome to the forum

peace

Welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy your stay here

Thanks, everyone, I feel very welcome!

Mister Agenda said:

I'm not here to try to talk anyone out of their beliefs, although I do not agree with the beliefs of the majority on this site

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Salam brother m/a,

Did you know that to be a true Muslim you must first be an atheist ?
We will Inshallah discuss that later for now welcome to I.B.

Masalam

I did not know that, but I can see how it might be helpful to approach Islam as a 'clean slate' rather than having many beliefs which must be let go of.

Welcome! Hopefully you will be able to learn lots here, and find the answers to any of your questions!

Welcome atheist. Can you state Why you became atheist?

Peace,

Generally speaking, you may be one of the first Athiests that aren't arrogant/disrespectful towards religion as I've seen many be. I'm not saying Athiests are bad, but it's like a common agenda for them to have such a negative outlook on religion to the point where it can be offending (and by that I don't mean they disagree with beliefs, they just act pretty arrogantly, most without even wanting to learn about the other faith).

You highlighted Atheists low view of Islam, not surprising.

I'm with them: it's not often one finds a friendly atheist, especially in a context that has anything to do with religion, and most especially on a message board. This is a refreshing change. Welcome.

Just a Guy said:

I joined this forum as a non-Muslim and never once did I encounter any hostility from anyone here. You're in good hands here.

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Salam brother Mister Agenda,

This is true, I came here as a non-Muslim as well and all the brothers and sisters were kind, encouraging, and patient with me. Welcome to the forum and don't hesitate to ask any questions you want about Islam.

Peace be with you

It's hard to give one answer that explains why so many atheists come off as rude. There are lots of possibilities. Probably most atheists who aren't interested in religion just ignore it, on the internet you tend to hear from the vocal minority, and sometimes atheists who used to be Christians or Muslims had a rough time when 'came out' to their families and friends. When you are troubled by how religious folks act and then they confirm your fears, it can leave you with a chip on your shoulder that may last a long time. When you lose the chip, you tend to lose interest in arguing with believers.

Some atheists who have recently 'de-converted' are like people who adopt a new religion or change politics: they want to tell everyone about it and convince everyone they're right. Many of us see atheism as liberating and honest, and think we're doing you a favor if we can get you to admit you're wrong. The wisdom to know that isn't a very fruitful occupation may take a while to come to us.

Those of us in cultures where atheists are a tiny minority (like mine) may just be more likely to be those who like to challenge the status quo...or just like to argue. Once we have become open about our atheism and find that it wasn't as scary as we thought it would be to be open and honest about what we really think, there's a temptation to get that feeling of being brave and honest over and over again by repeatedly challenging the beliefs of others.

These are just my impressions, I didn't conduct a scientific survey, but I've been an atheist for many years and I think I have a good idea of what makes us tick. Please appreciate that the people you are most likely to hear from are not likely to be most representative of the majority of Western atheists.

I believe in the inherent worth and dignity of every person and try to remember that when I'm speaking. Atheism (and theism) doesn't have these kinds of beliefs built into it. Just as you have to know what religion someone is to tell much about theists, you have to know what kind of philosophy an atheist holds. I'm not just an atheists, I'm also a humanist (ethically), a rationalist (cognitively), a libertarian (politically), and an existentialist (meaning of life). I'm lots of things, my opinion on the existence of any supernatural deities is a facet of who I am, but it doesn't define me. I even go to religious services, I attend a Unitarian Universalist Congregation, a religion that doesn't require you to have particular beliefs to be a member, they expect you to hold certain standards of behavior: we don't have to agree with one another to be kind to one another.

I hope this helps everyone understand where I'm coming from. I know it's complicated, but everyone is complicated if you know enough about them.

Getoffmyback said:

Welcome atheist. Can you state Why you became atheist?

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Sure. It was quite a journey, but I will try to simplify it: I was raised Pentecostal, a fundamentalist form of Christianity. Over about fifteen years I became more skeptical about many things. My experience was that whenever I looked closely at something someone else thought was supernatural, it turned out to be quite natural. I learned more about science, logic, and evidence and as I applied what I learned consistently; there were many things I stopped believing in that I once found plausible: ESP, alien visitation, Bigfoot, and so forth. It was not that I was convinced there couldn't possibly be any truth to them, it was that I became convinced there wasn't enough evidence for them to reasonably justify believing in them. Maybe Bigfoot does exist and is just very, very good at hiding...but I'm not going to believe until there is more convincing evidence than is now available. If I didn't have a standard of evidence for believing in something, I would have to provisionally accept the existence of the infinite number of things people could possibly imagine to exist. And I'm not saying someone who claims to have seen Bigfoot is lying: there are lots of other possibilities, people can misunderstand what they see, be tricked, have hallucinations, all sorts of things. I'm also not saying that someone who has seen Bigfoot is not justified in believing the creature exists: their experience may make their belief quite justified...but it's not my experience, I didn't have it, to me it is a story someone is telling and I have no way of knowing if, should I have been with the person when it happened, if I would think 'Oh my, Bigfoot is real!' or 'Uh, oh; that's a very big bear!'.

For a long time, I held a space for God because I thought it would be close-minded of me to say God doesn't exist if I can't prove it. Then I realized that it's not close-minded to reach a conclusion about something. It's only close-minded if you conclude something you are unwilling to change your mind about, no matter what the argument or evidence. I also confused agnosticism and atheism, once I understood the definitions better, I realized you can be both at the same time, and then I realized I was already an atheist and just hadn't thought of myself as one.

This is handy for understanding agnostic atheism: If someone asks you if you think you can know if God does exist; and your answer is 'no', then you are an agnostic. If someone asks you if you believe if God does exist, and your answer is 'no', then you're an atheist. If your answer to both is 'no', then you're an agnostic atheist (sometimes called a 'weak atheist'). Before I was an agnostic atheist, I was an agnostic theist: I didn't think I could know if God exists, but I tended to believe that some sort of God does exist...but I did not believe in the God of the Bible, which I had read twice, in two translations, while I was still a teenager.

I hope you find this an adequate explanation of how I became an atheist. A lot of people have stories that are similar to mine, but some people were raised atheists, some people say they never really believed the religion they were taught as a child, some people conclude that if God exists he is unjust and therefore does not exist because they can't believe in an unjust Creator. I'm glad you asked my story, because there's not a lot you can tell about an atheist if you don't know that. Atheism is just an opinion on one topic; knowing why an atheist holds that opinion is the key; just like it's important to know if a theist is a Muslim or a Hindu before you start assuming a lot of things about him or her.