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    Khattab's Avatar
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    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

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    "They say: Our Lord! Twice hast Thou made us die, and twice hast Thou made us live. Now we confess our sins. Is there any way to go out? (40:11) (PICKTHALL)

    They will say: "Our Lord! twice hast Thou made us without life, and twice hast Thou given us Life! Now have we recognised our sins: Is there any way out (of this)?" (40:11) (YUSUF ALI)

    This verse is speaking of the unbelievers. It says that they will say they have died twice....

    What I thought this to mean was that we where dead ie death is the non existence of life before Allah (SWT) created us? Then he will cause us to be without life again (ie in the state of death) after we die in this world. This makes two deaths, this is how Yusuf Ali explained it in his commentry. And it was the case for both Believers and the Kaffirs.

    However reading on I came across this verse speaking of the believers:


    "Nor will they there taste Death, except the first death; and He will preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire,-" (44:56)

    Can someone clear this up, do the believers taste one death as the above verse says and the unbelievers taste two deaths as the other verse says?

    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    "Lo! the Hour is surely coming, there is no doubt thereof; yet most of mankind believe not." (Al-Ghafir:59)

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    Ibn Abi Ahmed's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khattab


    "They say: Our Lord! Twice hast Thou made us die, and twice hast Thou made us live. Now we confess our sins. Is there any way to go out? (40:11) (PICKTHALL)

    They will say: "Our Lord! twice hast Thou made us without life, and twice hast Thou given us Life! Now have we recognised our sins: Is there any way out (of this)?" (40:11) (YUSUF ALI)

    This verse is speaking of the unbelievers. It says that they will say they have died twice....

    What I thought this to mean was that we where dead ie death is the non existence of life before Allah (SWT) created us? Then he will cause us to be without life again (ie in the state of death) after we die in this world. This makes two deaths, this is how Yusuf Ali explained it in his commentry. And it was the case for both Believers and the Kaffirs.

    However reading on I came across this verse speaking of the believers:


    "Nor will they there taste Death, except the first death; and He will preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire,-" (44:56)

    Can someone clear this up, do the believers taste one death as the above verse says and the unbelievers taste two deaths as the other verse says?


    Good Question... Inshallah ill do a google searh for the tafsirs later on Inshallah
    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun

    "It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl

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    Khattab's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    No one know the answer to this?
    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    "Lo! the Hour is surely coming, there is no doubt thereof; yet most of mankind believe not." (Al-Ghafir:59)

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    Uthman's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?



    I don't Obviously Lets wait for Ansar.


    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)

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    أحمد's Avatar
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    Wink Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?



    Sub-haanallah . . . you've been waiting so patiently for the answer; I never noticed. It's actually very simple, it doesn't take a scholar to answer it.
    1. Firstly, you have to understand that this world is A, barzakh is B and Qiyamah is C; leaving pre-existence and the first hashr as point 0.
    2. The one who believes (has yaqeen in the events of 0) it hasn't been their death at 0, rather they became firm. Refer to Surah al-A'araaf 7: verse 172 for details.
    3. Point B is DEATH (for every created being) refer to Surah al-Anbiyah verse 35 and Surah al-'Ankaboot 29: verse 57 for details.
    4. Alhamdulillah, you understand C, so theres no need to explain it. I hope this clears out the death issue.
    Please do not hesitate to PM me; if I do not notice threads like this; as I'm usually in the Halal Fun thread . . .


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    Uthman's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?



    You're top man! Top banana! I assumed you weren't going to reply that is why I said "Let's wait for Ansar".

    See? You're needed here! Please come down here first!


    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)

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    أحمد's Avatar
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    Wink Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?



    I'm always ready to answer questions; I just hadn't noticed the thread before, but now I'm looking out for issues like that, which need answering Insha-Allah . . .


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    Uthman's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?



    Good boy.


    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)

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    أحمد's Avatar
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    Wink Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?



    Before I write anything else; I would just like you to refer to Surah al-Fatihah as it covers all four points (0, A, B and C); all in one Surah . . .


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    Uthman's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?



    I've understood most of it but there is still loads to be learned from Surah Al-Fatiha. Let alone the whole Surah, there is so much to be learned just from a single verse, no?

    Anyway, I need a little help here with what you said :


    001.001
    YUSUFALI: In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
    PICKTHAL: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
    SHAKIR: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.


    001.002
    YUSUFALI: Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
    PICKTHAL: Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
    SHAKIR: All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.


    001.003
    YUSUFALI: Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
    PICKTHAL: The Beneficent, the Merciful.
    SHAKIR: The Beneficent, the Merciful.


    001.004
    YUSUFALI: Master of the Day of Judgment.
    PICKTHAL: Master of the Day of Judgment,
    SHAKIR: Master of the Day of Judgment.


    001.005
    YUSUFALI: Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
    PICKTHAL: Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
    SHAKIR: Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.


    001.006
    YUSUFALI: Show us the straight way,
    PICKTHAL: Show us the straight path,
    SHAKIR: Keep us on the right path.


    001.007
    YUSUFALI: The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
    PICKTHAL: The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
    SHAKIR: The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.


    Also, just out of interest, what would you say was the best translation of the Qur'an into English? Would it be one of these three?


    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)

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    Ansar Al-'Adl's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Osman


    I don't Obviously Lets wait for Ansar.




    Sorry, I didn't see this thread.

    Br. Khattab's question is an interesting question for sure.

    Let's take a look at the verses in question:



    40:11 They will say: "Our Lord! You have made us to die twice (i.e. we were dead in the loins of our fathers and dead after our deaths in this world), and You have given us life twice (i.e. life when we were born and life when we are Resurrected)! Now we confess our sins, then is there any way to get out (of the Fire)?
    Khan-Hilali translation is the most authentic in terms of tafsir and aqeedah

    And....



    44:56 They will never taste death therein except the death Al-oolaa (first death of this world), and He will save them from the torment of the blazing Fire

    I'm going to give a first-glance explanation of this. Obviously the understanding of the first verse has already been mentioned and that is the common understanding. Moreover, that applies to all people and not just the unbelievers.

    So the question is about the second verse.

    Just as Allah swt refers to the afterlife as Al-Akhirah in the Qur'an, this life is referred to as Al-oola, meaning the present of first life. What is understood is that, based on the context, the death referred to in 44:56 refers to the death in the present life, and not the death we have already experienced. It refers to the previous death, i.e. the one before Al-Akhira.

    This is my current understanding of the verses.

    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

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    Uthman's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?



    Jazakallah khairan. I understand it better now. Lets see what brother Khattab says.


    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)

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    Khattab's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    Jazzakallah Khair for the posts, I will let you know later what I have thought once I have read them properly.
    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    "Lo! the Hour is surely coming, there is no doubt thereof; yet most of mankind believe not." (Al-Ghafir:59)

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    Wink Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Osman


    I've understood most of it but there is still loads to be learned from Surah Al-Fatiha. Let alone the whole Surah, there is so much to be learned just from a single verse, no?

    Anyway, I need a little help here with what you said :


    001.001
    YUSUFALI: In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
    PICKTHAL: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
    SHAKIR: In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.


    001.002
    YUSUFALI: Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
    PICKTHAL: Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
    SHAKIR: All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.


    001.003
    YUSUFALI: Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
    PICKTHAL: The Beneficent, the Merciful.
    SHAKIR: The Beneficent, the Merciful.


    001.004
    YUSUFALI: Master of the Day of Judgment.
    PICKTHAL: Master of the Day of Judgment,
    SHAKIR: Master of the Day of Judgment.


    001.005
    YUSUFALI: Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
    PICKTHAL: Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
    SHAKIR: Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.


    001.006
    YUSUFALI: Show us the straight way,
    PICKTHAL: Show us the straight path,
    SHAKIR: Keep us on the right path.


    001.007
    YUSUFALI: The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
    PICKTHAL: The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
    SHAKIR: The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.


    Also, just out of interest, what would you say was the best translation of the Qur'an into English? Would it be one of these three?




    I'll explain it verse by verse:

    Verse 1: Allah is Rahman (refer's to present) and Raheem (refer's to Akhirah), but the meaning is the same; also read in Tafsir al-Jalalin and Ibn Kathir for details; alternatively I can write them up in a later post Insha-Allah . . .
    The present is from the time of shahadah at point 0 and the other is from A.

    Verse 2: "al-Hamdu lillah" Praise be to Allah; does one apply this to their daily life, or is it just something left to merely utter from the mouth at point A (Remember: Point A is the point one enters the "exam" room).

    Verse 3: "ar-Rahmani-r-Raheem": Repeated from first verse; referring to points A, B and C.

    Verse 4: Straight to point A and C.

    Verse 5: Points A, B and C.

    Verse 6: Points A, B and C.

    Verse 7: All four points.

    For any questions regarding this; please feel free to ask . . .


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    Khattab's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?



    Jazzakallah Khair Brother Ansar, that has made sense, so does that also mean that disbeleivers will only taste the first death?

    Also jazzkallah khair for your post brother Ahmed.

    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    "Lo! the Hour is surely coming, there is no doubt thereof; yet most of mankind believe not." (Al-Ghafir:59)

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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khattab
    Jazzakallah Khair Brother Ansar, that has made sense, so does that also mean that disbeleivers will only taste the first death?
    First death as in the the death of this life, yes. Plus the death if nonexistence before this life makes the two deaths referred to.

    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

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    Uthman's Avatar
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    Re: 2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?



    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
    For any questions regarding this; please feel free to ask . . .
    I'm afraid I didn't get it one bit :'(


    2 Deaths for the Unbelievers?


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)


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