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Female Circumcision

اَللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ - لَا إلَهَ إلَّا اللَّهُ وَاَللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ اَللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ وَلِلَّهِ الْحَمْد - اَللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ - لَا إلَهَ إلَّا اللَّهُ وَاَللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ اَللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ وَلِلَّهِ الْحَمْد - اَللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ - لَا إلَهَ إلَّا اللَّهُ وَاَللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ اَللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ وَلِلَّهِ الْحَمْد - اللَّهُ أَكْبَرُ كَبِيرًا وَالْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ كَثِيرًا وَسُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ بُكْرَةً وَأَصِيلًا
20 Sunnah to do on 'Eid

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  1. #1
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    Female Circumcision (OP)


    Before anyone says anything I did think to put this in a womans only sectiON, BUT i really would like to hear what the brothers have to say on this subject aswell.

    Female Circumcision is practiced to this day and people attribute this to part Of Islam, to my knowledge its not so, I cannot find a single hadith that supports this, nor any ayah in Quran.
    Personally I think its horrendous what they do to these young girls , its evil and sick.

    What is your thought on this, do you think its right ?
    do you think it has any Islamic value to it if so where is this proof that it is Allowed and wanted in Islam ?
    Female Circumcision

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    Re: Female Circumcision

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    One may call female circumcision haraam on the grounds of it being self harm/mutilation, whilst another may say (isn't there a saying/hadith like) "if in doubt stay away". It's ramadaan sisters and it's quickly getting away from us, keep the nature of your posts good mannered if you may

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    Re: Female Circumcision



    I urge the sisters to discuss respectively in any discussions. In this matter, it's not fitting for any Muslim who does not know the ruling on a certain matter to declare it haraam or halaal. This comes under the category of speaking without knowledge and no Muslim who believes in Allaah and the Last Day should utter such words without any evidence.

    Allaah (Exalted is He) says:
    Do not act or give judgments in the Deen without knowledge. On the Day of Judgment one’s ears, eyes, and heart will be asked about their deeds
    We look at what the imaams have said regarding female circumcision. The scholars differed whether it's obligatory or not but they unanimously agree that it is sunnah for the female and none have declared that it's prohibited. The majority favour that it is sunnah.

    The problem is that female circumcision is widely connoted to the practises foundin West Africa. For example, Somalia, where they do not attach moderation but remove the clitoris altogether. This is also called the Pharaonic circumcision and has no basis in the Shariah. Hence, this type of act is refered to as genital mutilation since it exceeds the limitation set.


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    Re: Female Circumcision



    The question of female circumcision was answered as follows by the IslamToday.com team.

    This question has been answered by Sheikh Muhammad b. Sâlih al-`Uthaymîn:
    The rule of circumcision is a matter of disagreement .The most favored opinion is that it is obligatory for males and voluntary (sunnah) for females. A difference exists between men and women because of the benefits that exist for the male that gets circumcised, since the removal of the foreskin prevents the gathering of urine in the foreskin which may cause inflammation or urine later contaminating clothing upon walking, especially since such impurity of clothes would spoil prayers.

    But for female, the situation is different and it is only a matter of minimizing sexual desire which is something secondary and not essential as in the case with men.

    However, before doing circumcision the man should be secure that doing so is safe for him. In case he has any doubt that this action would hurt him or cause any kind of affliction, then he can refrain from doing it. It is a principle in our religion that failing to do a duty will not be held against a person in case of incapability.

    Evidences that circumcision is obligatory for men are:

    1. There are many hadîth that the Prophet (peace be upon him) ordered all new Muslim men to circumcise, and an order means obligation in Islamic law.

    2. Circumcision is a distinguishing mark between Muslims and Christians. Muslims used to identify their killed people at war time by this mark, so it is obligatory because Muslims are requested to distinguish themselves from disbelievers, as emulating disbelievers is something unlawful, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Whoever imitates other people (than Muslims) then he belongs to them”.

    3. Circumcision means cutting a piece of the body, which is unlawful and unlawful acts can not be legalized unless for some thing obligatory so this shows that circumcision is an obligatory act.

    4. Circumcision could be done by a guardian of an orphan from the orphan’s money, and if it was not obligatory, the guardian could never touch the orphan’s body or money.

    For all this textual and theoretical evidence, it is clear that circumcision is obligatory for men.

    But for women, there is no proof that it is obligatory.

    There is a hadith that says: “Circumcision is Sunnah for men and a noble act for women” but it is a weak Hadîth, otherwise it would give a decisive ruling on this matter.


    [Ibn `Uthaymîm, Fatawa and Letters, Volume 11 page 117]

    From the Fatwâ Department editors:

    Please note that not only is the hadîth about female circumcision weak, but what is being practiced on women in many parts of the world, primarily in parts of Africa, is not even circumcision (correct circumcision is merely the removal of excess skin surrounding the clitoris without touching the clitoris) but a form of genital mutilation that is categorically prohibited in Islam. Such practices existed in those cultures before Islam came and were unfortunately perpetuated by the people after they came into Islam, often under the mistaken assumption that the hadîth in question was referring to and validating their practices. Since the hadîth is weak to begin with, and since most people really do not know how to practice circumcision correctly, female circumcision should be avoided.

    And Allah knows best.

    Fatwâ Department Research Committee of IslamToday chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî

    I hope that answers this question. Members are warned that insults and offensive comments will not be tolerated on this forum - please debate respectfully. Members are also asked to use the 'Report Bad Post' feature to alert Moderators as to which posts need to be dealt with - otherwise it is very difficult for staff to find the offending posts and deal with them.

    Lastly, this thread is for the purpose of discussing female circumcision. Other issues, such as the marriage of Aisha rd, should be discussed in other threads. Off-topic posts will be removed.

    Female Circumcision

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

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    Re: Female Circumcision



    I say that female circumcision is mubaah and you say that it is haraam. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Then we may continue this discussion.


    Female Circumcision

    "Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)

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    Re: Female Circumcision

    JazakAllahkair sister for your warm hearted post
    Your apology is accepted and may you accept mine , I may have been insensitive, not thinking that there could be western side muslimahs who have been circumcised, I could of handled it more sensitive with that factor in mind, and I do not knock anyone who choose to have this done to THEMSELVES, just cant abide it being forced onto girls and hoping they will accept it for her own good when she grows up.

    well back to the debate
    Im not familuar with the word Mubahh can you explain the meaning for me please.
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    Re: Female Circumcision



    Ibaahah (mubah)

    Definition: Something that is equally permissible to do or not to do. Nuetral.

    Other names: Halal, Hill, Mutlaq and Jaa'iz.

    If the Shari'ah specifically mentions something as permissible, it takes the term of Halaal and it is worship to believe that is persmissible.

    If the Shari'ah does not speak about an issue of worship, then the default is Haraam until proof is brought that the Shari'ah sanctions it. If the Shari'ah does not speak about an act that is not worship, then the default is Halaah until proof is brought that the Shari'ah forbids this.


    Female Circumcision

    "Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)

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    Re: Female Circumcision

    In that case we would have to lean on the more reliable evidence and looking back there is no evidence that says its obligatory , so do we now say its halal on the basis of that ?
    It cannot be argued that in the very least it falls into the doubtfull area and if in doubt -do not do-.
    avoid the doubtfull things.

    so sister In answer to your Question do I do not think it is mubah going by the definaition you wrote.


    My question to you is, do you agree that it is a doubtfull thing/act ?
    If it is not a doubtfull act than it must be halal ?
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    Re: Female Circumcision



    I do not believe that female circumcision is in the department of those things classified as doubtful.

    There are hadiths that refer to circumcision whether it be males and/or females.

    There is no harm on the parents if they do not circumcise their daughters. And if parents have traditions in their culture that adivse circumcision, then they may do so, obeying the instruction of the Prophet (SAW). Abu Dawood (5271) narrated from Umm ‘Atiyyah al-Ansaariyyah that a woman used to do circumcisions in Madeenah and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her: “Do not go to the extreme in cutting; that is better for the woman and more liked by the husband.”

    It's quite simple when you think about it. None of the scholars have declared female circumcision to be haraam. Majority of the scholars say that it is Sunnah. Mustahab/Sunnah is a commandment that is not binding. One may choose to do a sunnah action, but if one chooses not to do the action, then they are not punishable. If anything, female circumcision is mubaah. However, this is not the 'mutilation' thing that goes on in some cultures. There is a very humane way that the shari'ah teaches for circumcision of girls. That can be found in the fiqh books.

    "Say: Come, bring your witnesses who can bear witness that Allah forbade (all) this. And if they bear witness, do not thou bear witness with them. Follow thou not the whims of those who deny Our revelations, those who believe not in the Hereafter and deem (others) equal with their Lord." An'aam: 150.



    Allah truly knows best.


    Female Circumcision

    "Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)

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    Re: Female Circumcision

    Salam Alykum Noor

    What is ear peicing if its not mutalation ? what is anybody peircing if its not mutilation ?
    what is tattoo's ?
    Of course all haram and we can all agree on that, but we cannot ALL agree on the fact that female circumcision is MORE mutilation than the above I mentioned ?

    If truly that is way you see it, that if parents have cultural practices of doing circumscion on girls, using a weak hadith to support such 'cultural' decisions.
    then this is your view, some may say you are right and some may say your wrong, the mere fact that you think cultural practices should be accepted AT ALL is worrying.

    I wonder out loud if you agree with forced marriages next ? no offense but it seems like same kind of thinking perhaps ?
    If an hadith is uclear about a ruling then surely we should look back to Quran for help and if its not in Quran then surely we are better to avoid anything unclear.

    the hadith that you hold tight to the Prophet PBUH is not saying this is allowed, he never even said its a good thing, he gave advise if you MUST do it do it like this, there is NOTHING at all to suggest he did this to his daughters, surely if he did he would of mentioned it himself as being a good rightious Islamic duty.

    And by the way is there ANY indication of the age of the girls the Prophet came across in the hadith ?
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    Lightbulb Re: Female Circumcision

    assalamualaikum evry1

    the word mutilation in that article makes me cringe all over!

    wow heated argument room!!!

    (may i just say that im not certain bout a boys circumcision... i have a book which says they shud be???)

    dear brothers and sisters of islam
    this is Ramadhan, the bleesed month from Allah... please lets try to spread love not hate.
    i see the remarks sayin "eyes of mine" sounds like khufar? to me this duz sound like a harsh judgement and i need to simply elaborate on one point:

    yes i am a revert & 18 yrs old, but i feel the sistr is simply saying our beloved Prophet had the ability to marry aisha at such a young age becuz it was in a
    non-western society.
    now i feel that with her intelect it was obvious she was of sound mind to agree to this. but may i ask the ummah 1 question?

    on topic i dont feel a girl should have this done if Allah hasnt made it obligatory.

    peace, mercy, blessings and love be upon this Ummah and let us unite as 1
    Ameen

    xxx 1 , 1 Imaan, 1 Ummah xxx
    :rose:

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    Re: Female Circumcision

    AssalamuAlaikum,


    What you fail to see is that since the Prophet (saw) said that if you must do it , do it this way, therefore he never said it was haram nor obligatory...so those that choose to do it the sunnah way, and not FGM, may proceed. Take a moment to digest this before you fly off the handle. I am not in any way shape or form advocating nor endorsing FGM, rather, im trying to show the right way to do minor circumcision if one chooses to do so, and also letting people know, even that isn't obligatory.


    Wa Alaikum Salaam

    Regarding ear piercing:


    Question of Fatwa

    As-salamu `alaykum. Is there any authentic proof in Islam concerning women piercing their ears? Is it obligatory, allowed, or forbidden?



    Name of Mufti Muhammad Iqbal Nadvi
    Content of Reply


    Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

    In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

    All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

    Dear questioner, thanks for your question, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us serve His cause and render our work for His sake.

    There is no legal text from either the Qur’an or the Sunnah that orders women to pierce their ears. Piercing ears for women is a cultural practice that is permissible in Islam according to the tacit approval of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

    Responding to the question, Sheikh Muhammad Iqbal Nadvi, director and imam of Al-Falah Islamic Center, Oakville, Ontario, Canada, states the following:

    No, it is a cultural practice. However, there is no text in the Islamic sources (mainly the Qur'an and the Sunnah) to go against it. What we know from history is that some female Companions used to wear qurt or earrings, and we have no text to show that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) forbade it.

    So, according to the tacit approval or the taqrir of the Prophet, it is acceptable. The same rule applies to piercing the nose.
    Female Circumcision

    "Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)

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    Re: Female Circumcision


    Thread closed temporarily for moderation. (insults, off-topic posts, offensive remarks...subhanAllah its Ramadan).

    Female Circumcision

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


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    Re: Female Circumcision



    Thread re-opened. There were several rude and unproductive insults that were made in this thread. Such remarks have been deleted. If members continue to violate forum rules, it may result in a ban.

    With regard to the issue at hand, it's been agreed that female gential mutilation, or what Br. Kadafi pointed out to be Pharaonic circumcision, is unlawful and has no basis in Islam. Indeed, this is a terrible practice. The difference of opinion only exists with regard to a mild form of female circumcision, which many scholars believe to be voluntary (sunnah).

    Scholars have either said it is preferable to do it, or they have said it is preferable to avoid it. What Islam does teach us is that causing harm and suffering to others is forbidden. The most balanced and agreed upon view with regard to female circumcision is as mentioned by the IslamToday Fatwa committee:
    Since the hadîth is weak to begin with, and since most people really do not know how to practice circumcision correctly, female circumcision should be avoided. (See here for complete Fatwa.)
    I hope this helps, and I hope the discussion will proceed in a manner befitting of muslims.

    Female Circumcision

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
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    Re: Female Circumcision

    Salam alykum
    Well not much more to say on it, I think you did a fair enough conclusion to the whole debate Answar.
    Female Circumcision

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    Re: Female Circumcision

    yes i agree well put ansar

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    Re: Female Circumcision

    not 2 say i am completely right and everything cos i don't have a clue either!!(i seriously can't imagine that!) i never heard of it being practiced in this religion but heard of it being done in other religion and cultures.

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    Re: Female Circumcision

    Greetings,

    I think what Ansar has said is the most rational position, and it's certainly the view I would take on the matter.

    Peace

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    Re: Female Circumcision



    May this message meet all in the best of health and eeman.

    In my point of view, female circumcision is mubaah.

    Ansar stated that : "Scholars have either said it is preferable to do it, or they have said it is preferable to avoid it". Does this not mean that the action is Mubaah?

    According to the scholars, a Mubaah (permissible) act is the act that neither brings about reward, if performed, nor brings about punishment, if abandoned. Performing or abandoning the Mubaah are the same.

    Shari'ah divides actions into five categories; mandatory(Fard, Wajib), commendable (sunnah), permissible (mubaah), detestable (Makrooh) and strictly forbidden (haraam). Female circumcision falls within the category of the permissible (mubaah). Before I contunue, it must be made clear the type of procedure in which female circumcision is considered mubaah.

    Female circumcision is the removal of the hood (or prepuce) of the clitoris. This procedure is, to some degree, analgous to male circumcision since in both cases, no part of the sexual organ is cut off. In both cases also, it is only the foreskin, or outer fold of the skin, which is cut off. Properly done, it is not likely to cause any "matrimonial" problem.

    From what you've stated Ansar, it sounds as though you've taken the stance that Female Circumcision is Makrooh.

    Correct me if I am wrong.





    P.S. Eid Mubaraak All.
    Female Circumcision

    "Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)

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    Re: Female Circumcision

    You have GOT to be joking. As highly emotive this message will seem - Islam does not prescribe female circumcision - i am horrified.

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    Re: Female Circumcision


    If you'd really like to investigate this matter in greater depth (since you mentioned you found the proofs unsatisfying I'm sure you'd like to read all the proofs before making such a judgement) then I would recommend that you read the chapter on female and male cicumcision in this book as it contains the fatawaa of great shuyukh such as Ibn Uthaymeen and Ibn Baaz. It mentions that the consensus amongst the madhabs on this issue is that it is sunnah - this is the opinion in the Hanafi, Hanbali, and Maliki madhab. There were some Shafi'ee scholars who said it was obligatory but they were alone in their opinion.

    And as I mentioned before, I'm not taking sides as to whether it is Mustahab or Makrooh. But the point here is that as the IslamToday team mentioned (headed by Shaykh Abdul Wahhab At-Turayri, former profesor of Imam Univeristy Saudi Arabia) based on current circumstances the practice is best avoided since the potential harm is greater than the potential benefit.

    I hope this clarifies.
    Female Circumcision

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.

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