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How I Became a Muslim

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    How I Became a Muslim (OP)


    Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa baraktuhu!

    My story is a pretty long one and I was posting it in parts in the Stories of Muslim Reverts thread. But I saw that it was holding up others from posting their stories and I didn't want to be in the way. So here's my reversion story....

    Part 1: Born to Atheist Parents

    “There’s no such thing as God!”

    That’s what I believed most of my childhood thanks to the teachings of my parents. They said, “We believe in science. Not God. Where is God? Why doesn’t He show Himself? If He exists why is there so much suffering in this world?” It was and still is a hot topic for discussion with them.

    I greatly admired and adored my parents. As a kid, I used to think they were such great thinkers and philosophers. It never occurred to me that they could be wrong. Of course they were right! Till the age of nine I had the opportunity to observe the rituals, customs and ways of life of people of belonging to different religions, but more in particular, the Hindus. I thought my mom was so clever when she pointed out that the Hindus fashioned idols out of their own hands and then worshipped them as gods. “Doesn’t this show you that it is man who has created God?” she would say.

    In India, superstitions are in plenty. There’s also much indulgence in astrology, palmistry, numerology and fortune-telling. There are numerous god-men or saints. My parents would have none of this nonsense. They did not believe in any of it. Talk about ghosts and they would laugh the matter off. There were no such things as ghosts. No such thing as spirits. No such thing as God. So I grew up thinking it wasn’t rational to believe in things that were not proven by science to be true.

    So my family members had great pride in their intellectual powers of thought and reason. There’s some proof of their intellectual capabilities in their achievements. My mom is a champion chess player and beaten many men in the game. She also won in many badminton tournaments. My grandmother was a respected headmistress of a school. My grandfather was the first lawyer in our town. And my great grandfather used to be a judge who would settle disputes in the community.

    Now what was I compared to them? I just looked up to them and followed their teachings. I remember arguing with my friends in school about the existence of God. I would demand them to produce their proof it they were right. Of course, none of them could prove it and some of the kids even acknowledged that I could be right in what I said. But still, they were afraid to give up their belief in God.

    Later on, I would reflect upon the sad state of affairs of my friends who believed in a god that didn’t exist. I felt sorry for them. But as I thought more and more about God, I couldn’t help thinking about death as well. Finally I thought to myself, “There was nothing going to happen after we died. And these people had invented God to make themselves feel better. It was comforting to think they would go to heaven after death.”

    So I thought I knew at the age of eleven the reason why people believed in God. It was because they wanted to go to heaven, the poor things.

    Till the age of thirteen, I continued engaging in arguments and debates regarding the non-existence of God with my classmates. Once I even said I could jump from the building to prove He didn’t exist! Sooooo confident was I!

    But now I had reached the age of puberty. And by this time, my powers of observation and reasoning had greatly developed at an accelerated pace.

    I was quick to learn that I had many limitations as a girl. I was extremely aware of my weaknesses. I had no desire to compete with men once I acquired this awareness. So I differed from my mom and sister immensely in this respect. As an adolescent, I preferred to wear clothes that fully covered me. The way I conducted myself differed greatly from the way of my sister who had no problem wearing shorts and mini skirts.

    As soon as I entered my teens, I had become aware of something called responsibility and the problem of choice. I tossed this issue in my mind, wondering what it meant. I began to ask questions. Why do we have to make choices? Why is there a right way and a wrong way?

    More importantly, I asked myself the question, “Why is it that I refuse to take the wrong way?”

    As I thought about it, the answer came to me quite easily. I refused to take the wrong way because I could see the end result of it. Subhanallah! Of all the gifts that God has given me, I appreciate most this awesome gift of foresight. I was given the ability to see the end of things and in this way, I was kept safe from many dangers. I always used to think about the consequences of all my actions.

    But the best part about all this was that it resulted in an awareness of something else. It was knowledge in my heart somewhere that told me that one day I would have to give an account for all my actions. This was how I became aware of that thing called accountability. In my mind’s eye, through my foresight, I was able to see ahead and know that I would one day be standing before God for every single thing that I said and did! It’s really strange but I had no doubt at all regarding this Day of Accountability.

    This was how belief in God took root in my heart. It was a very strong and powerful feeling and it came with a thorough conviction. If making choices and responsibility for one’s actions was real then accountability also had to be real. Accountability to who? Obviously, accountability to the One who gave me the problem of choice! To the One who made me responsible for my actions, to the One who created me! The Unseen God!

    There were of course lots of other questions in my mind. I wondered what was the purpose of life and why all human beings had to die. By this time it was clear to me that my parents were wrong about a lot of things. My opinion about them began to change when I realized they didn’t have answers to all questions. I quickly discovered that I would have to find out the answers on my own.

    The learning process that led me to Islam was gradual. I had close friends who were Muslims. It was from them that I first learned about Islam. And far from opposing their belief in one God, I readily accepted it to be true. That was really weird now that I think about it. No arguing, no debating, no discussing, no opposing. I just accepted it.

    Soon my parents found out that I believed in God. Their reaction was: “Get out of this house! There is no place in here for anyone who believes in God!”

    Yes, they were furious. They couldn’t understand how I suddenly had begun to believe in the existence of God. I knew how they felt about it, so I kept my belief to myself. Belief in God was enough for me at the time. I didn’t feel the necessity to become a Muslim even though I had learned some very good things about Islam from my Muslim friends. The first pages of a book I read called “Let us Be Muslims” completely turned me off. I didn’t fancy the idea of becoming a servant of God. “Isn’t what I want important?” I had thought to myself indignantly. “How could I give up my freedom and become a servant, doing only things that God wanted me to do?”

    So I lost interest in Islam and entertained the weird idea that it didn’t matter what religion you ascribed to as long as you were good. One had just to follow one’s conscience. What was the need for a religion?

    With such a mind set I continued my studies and eventually got a job in a college. I was paid good money and I worked for only about a year before I decided to quit. I wasn’t happy leading a single life. My parents did not believe in the institution of marriage and so I knew that they were not going to find an eligible groom for me. I would have to find one myself or else die an old maid.

    Now the big question that arose in my mind was, what kind of man should I choose? Surely he had to be a man who believed in one God like I did. I also thought to myself that he ought to be a man who feared God as well because only such a man would remain faithful to me. So I figured I wouldn’t mind marrying a Muslim, a Christian or a Baha’i.

    I remember going up to the terrace one night looking at the starry sky and saying to myself. “He’s out there somewhere. God knows where he is and what he is doing right now.”

    The man in question was out there alright. He lived thousands of miles away, on the other side of the globe, in America. And he was a Christian and a very devout, die-hard Christian.


    Part 2: The Light of Islam!

    How we met and got married was nothing short of a miracle. It deserves a separate story-telling session of its own which will no doubt amaze any listener. I won’t get into all the details. I suppose it’s enough to mention I spent some time talking to my would-be husband and I saw honesty and a real fear of God in his eyes. This was what I had been looking for and soon I found myself saying yes to his proposal of marriage.

    I had to wait a year and half before I got my visa to go to the US. During the wait, I sometimes went through periods of frustration and sadness that came over me due to the separation from my husband. I used to keep a copy of the Bible and go through recommended passages to comfort my heart. But I was not satisfied with just the Bible. I also went to an Islamic center to get a free copy of the Qur’an. The funny thing is that at the Islamic center there was a little shop that sold head scarves. I was very attracted to them not because I was thinking I would look pretty wearing them but because I understood their purpose: they provided safety to the woman. And I had always liked the idea of covering up. So I bought a printed black head scarf and brought it home and tried putting it on. Needless to say, my family members were annoyed and disgusted to see me parading around in the house, wearing the scarf around my head. I put it away so as not to arouse their displeasure and cause friction within the household. I didn’t insist on wearing it again.

    Waiting for my visa turned out to be a good thing for me. I got the opportunity to read the Bible and the Qur’an quite regularly. I found many similarities between both the books. Both spoke about one God and contained within their pages great jewels of wisdom that I found utter delight in.

    So when I went to America to join my husband, I had in my suitcase both the Bible and the Qur’an. However, during the first few months of my stay in America, I wasn’t too keen to read the Qur’an for I had to show my loyalty and support to my deeply religious Christian husband. He was a member of a Judeo-Christian denomination called the Worldwide Church of God. He read the Bible so much and so frequently that the pages were frayed and worn out. He took his Bible with him everywhere! He used to observe the Sabbath and attended the Seventh Day Adventist Church. I went to church with him several times. I met many nice people at church. I even made some very good friends. I was particularly attached to an elderly couple. I was pretty happy with the way things were going....... until I went to California to visit my in-laws.

    That visit to California was the turning point in my life. There I got an opportunity to see Christianity from real close quarters. Until then I really didn’t know much about Christianity. All I knew was they worshipped one God, that they believed Jesus was the son of God and that there were two groups among them (according to what I had read in history books): The Roman Catholics and The Protestants. I personally didn’t believe Jesus was son of God. If Christians believed it, so what? I didn’t care what they believed as long as they believed in one God. I had the similar attitude towards the Hindus. I personally detested the worship of idols and never believed in them. But if the Hindus wanted to worship them, so what? At least they believed in the existence of God and they believed in the principle of karma.

    I was a believer in the existence of God and my attitude was all people who believed in God were believers, whether they were Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs or Jews. I kept peace with all religions in this way. But all that changed dramatically when I went to California.

    So what happened there you ask? Well, it was when I was travelling in the metro train, on my way to Los Angeles, that some men entered the train and passed slips of paper to the passengers. I looked at the piece of paper in my hand and read it with utter disbelief. This was what it said:

    WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?
    The answer to this question is, absolutely nothing!
    The only requirement is to believe what God has said in His word, and He says, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved”.
    Only believe? Yes, that’s all! Believe means to trust completely in what God has said concerning salvation.
    What do we have to believe?
    That Christ died for our sins, and that He was buried, and
    that He rose again the third day.
    Christ died to give us eternal life. If you desire to have eternal life make the following prayer:
    Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner and that I have a need to be forgiven. I now receive Christ Jesus as my Lord and Savior.
    Thank You for having forgiven my sins. In Jesus name. Amen.
    John 1:12 But as many as received Him, (Jesus) to them gave He (God) power (authority) to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name.


    Do absolutely nothing to obtain salvation?!! Jesus died for our sins?!

    I wonder if you could understand the state of my heart at the time of reading that slip of paper. It was like I was in the middle of a violent whirlwind. I felt as though my world was struck by thunder and lightning. To be sure, a great tempest had risen in my heart. I felt the fire of hatred and loathing swell up inside of me. My mind was burning with anger, denial and extreme disgust. My heart was screaming out loud that the content of that slip of paper simply could not be true! It was so evidently false that I was surprised that anyone actually believed in it!

    My mind was in a state of great turmoil and shock. How could anyone believe that Jesus Christ died for his sins? How could anyone accept such an idea?!

    This little piece of paper prompted me to embark on a speedy journey of investigation regarding Christianity. I took hold of the Bible and tried to find within its pages any proof that supported the claim that Jesus had died for our sins. The Bible was silent on this matter. Jesus had never said anything to even hint that he had come to die for our sins! That meant only one thing. That this entire story of Jesus dying for our sins had been made up!

    There was no stopping me now. I found out that there weren’t just two groups within Christianity. There were hundreds of them! Why, I wondered, were there so many denominations when the book they read and believed in was one?! Each denomination believed in strange things. The most preposterous was the idea that Jesus was God. There was also the concept of trinity that didn’t make any sense to me whatsoever.

    I was amazed that people could believe such things about Jesus and God, especially when there was nothing in the Bible to support such beliefs. Jesus never claimed to be God, had never claimed that he would die for our sins and he had never mentioned anything called the trinity.

    All those claims made no sense to me and I wasn’t one to accept things that made no sense.

    First, the saying that Jesus was God. And the second, that he had died for our sins!

    There was a clear cut argument in my mind that told me flat out what lies they all were!

    The argument went as follows: God wouldn’t be God if He died. All men are destined to die. Therefore no man can be God, even if he were to claim he was one.

    So if Jesus died for our sins, it’s the same as saying God died for our sins. How does that sound? Does it make even one iota of sense?! If God really did die, and He is one God, mind you, then how did this world continue to operate? After death, where did God go?

    There was no way that I was going to accept such nonsensical beliefs regarding God. Then I began to wonder, did my husband too entertain such beliefs? Did the friends that I had made in the Seventh Day Adventist Church too believe this crap?

    I went ahead and asked them if it was true they believed that Jesus was God and that he had died for their sins. It wasn’t something they openly declared, but they admitted that this was indeed what they believed. This was the e-mail they had sent me in response to my questions:

    “No evil or sin can stand before a Perfect God. Even what to us is just the tiniest of wrong is totally intolerable to His perfection. All it takes is one sinful act. Look at Adam and Eve. They committed only one act, and a very small one at that, but that act allowed sin to enter this world. They knew that the consequences of that one act was death, but God made a promise to them that there was a way they could be redeemed from those consequences. It is that promise that the prophets wrote about. It is that promise and its fulfilment that is the underlining theme throughout the rest of the Bible. The message is that not only were the Jewish leaders who crucified Christ evil, but so were David, Lot and the others. That also includes you and me. Even the smallest evil makes us deserving of death. Just as there was nothing Adam and Eve could to do undo what they had done, there is nothing we can do to undo the evil we have done. But the same promise God made to Adam and Eve He makes to us. He only asks us to accept that promise.”

    How could anyone believe in such a theory!? But that is precisely what my good Christian “friends” believed. According to them, all evil, all sin is the same in the eyes of God. So the penalty for a man who steals a loaf of bread is the same as the penalty for a man who goes out and murders ten people! What kind of justice is that?! I’m thankful the law and order system in America does not treat all crime with the death penalty! Is justice here on earth better than God’s justice?

    And what utter rubbish to even think that we are all deserving of death for the small sins that we commit and that we can be saved simply by believing that God died for our sins!!

    Whether we believe or we don’t believe, it still doesn’t save us from death, does it?!

    If we commit a sin, it is not because of Adam and Eve! We commit a sin when we choose to do wrong or evil of our own free will. We alone are responsible for our actions. For the mistake I make, nobody else can be held accountable. That would simply not be justice! Therefore, even if somebody were to come up to me and say he or she was willing to take the burden of my sin, I would not agree to it! Since it is I who committed the sin, it is I alone who must face the consequences of that act! It just does not make sense that we should consciously make mistakes and commit sins and all kinds of crimes and put the whole burden on somebody who is totally innocent. There is no law and order system in this world where Tom commits a murder and instead of Tom, Dick is hanged for it!! If such a thing were to be done, this whole world would be upside down!

    My heart was screaming in anger that I would never ever accept such an outrageous belief that someone died for my sins. If this was what Christianity taught, I wanted to have absolutely no part in it! I would reject it outright.

    I was then quick to reach for the Qur’an to find out what it had to say about Jesus. What I read satisfied me. According to the Qur’an, Jesus was a servant and messenger of God. Not son of God or God.

    I didn’t have to read much to realize that the Qur’an confirmed everything I used to believe as true within my heart. It confirmed my belief that God was One, that He was the Creator possessing all power and might and that He was the One before whom I would stand one day to give a full account of my actions. I saw the entire Qur’an as nothing but a book that helped me prepare for the Day of Accountability, the fearsome Day which I had never for a moment doubted. Everything in the Qur’an made perfect sense! There was not a single thing in the Qur’an that brought low or defiled the concept of the One true God. Everything in it exalted the nature of God, giving a clear cut, undeniable explication of what He truly is like, the One to whom belong the most beautiful names, the One who was Perfect, free from impurities, the One who made no mistakes!

    The light of faith had now entered my heart, dispelling all darkness and I could now clearly see where I stood. I saw that I could no longer accept the Christian way of life. I could no longer accept anything but Islam, the religion of the Qur’an.

    ….................to be continued.
    Last edited by Flame of Hope; 03-28-2011 at 04:22 AM. Reason: Needed to insert those wonderful emoticons. :D
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    How I Became a Muslim


    It is pointless to watch other people's houses crumbling when our own house is in need of repair and attention.


  2. #101
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

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    format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
    I agree with you, but I stand on the promise that Allah (swt) made in the Quran of forgiveness and Paradise for those who believe and do good deeds. I pray to die not but as a Muslim - one who submits his will to that of Allah's (swt).
    Yes, we hope that Allah will find us to be true believers at the time of our deaths and that is what we pray to Allah for..... that we die as Muslims, believing in Him as ONE and not associating partners with Him.

    To say that I want to have confidence in knowing where I am going however is actually a tricky affair. One cannot have such confidence. Because to have it would be tantamount to becoming smug and complacent about one's destiny, as though one is guaranteed salvation. It is tantamount to having pride in one's own righteousness.... thinking oneself to be so good that he will definitely be saved.

    In Islam to have such confidence is a major sin... To be specific, that sin is feeling secure from the plan of Allah.

    Iblis fell into this trap. And it's a trap that all Muslims must avoid.
    How I Became a Muslim


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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    Salams,
    They main thing we should focus on brothers and sisters is that we should be thankful to Allah and fearful of losing these things
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    I don't think any human can ever say 100% for sure that they know where they will go after death. Doubts will always be in the back of your mind. We can't know for sure because no one that has died has ever come back to tell us what to expect. It's a one-way trip.

    Anyway, Riham, your story was an inspiration to me as well. Some elements of your journey to Islam are/were similar to my own story. I read it the first day I was here, and I remember thinking that I too wanted to find that peace that you have found. The rest of my story you now know.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by Riham View Post




    Yes, we hope that Allah will find us to be true believers at the time of our deaths and that is what we pray to Allah for..... that we die as Muslims, believing in Him as ONE and not associating partners with Him.

    To say that I want to have confidence in knowing where I am going however is actually a tricky affair. One cannot have such confidence. Because to have it would be tantamount to becoming smug and complacent about one's destiny, as though one is guaranteed salvation. It is tantamount to having pride in one's own righteousness.... thinking oneself to be so good that he will definitely be saved.

    In Islam to have such confidence is a major sin... To be specific, that sin is feeling secure from the plan of Allah.

    Iblis fell into this trap. And it's a trap that all Muslims must avoid.
    Sister, you write so eloquently, masha'Allah. Again I agree with what you are saying. Christians will ask, "Do you know that you are saved? If you died tonight would you go to Heaven or Hell?" You are so right that we don't have the same attitude of "Blessed Assurance, Jesus is mine!", but rather a balance of hope in the mercy of Allah (swt) and fear of His wrath.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
    I agree with you, but I stand on the promise that Allah (swt) made in the Quran of forgiveness and Paradise for those who believe and do good deeds. I pray to die not but as a Muslim - one who submits his will to that of Allah's (swt).
    I have never I think heard this before as one is familiar with Martyrs going straight to heaven (though how killing the innocent does that I cannot say) But what I would like to ask is why if as you say the Qu'ran is God's last word would he omit to tell us a certain way to get to heaven, surely that is the most important question of all if one is a believer? I also wonder what God would do if I (say) did massive amounts of good works, much, much more that you but did not believe? Of course I can ask the question also the other way round if I believed but did nothing good? In short logically, it looks like good works are the deciding factor not believing?
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by Impey View Post
    In short logically, it looks like good works are the deciding factor not believing?
    Belief comes first. Good works second.

    One can be saved by SINCERE belief in Allah and His Messenger alone. However, some people get misled into thinking that they believe and have faith and by virtue of that alone, they will be saved. They forget that sincerity is an elusive thing. If you believe you are sincere, you aren't. And thus, your chance for salvation is lost.
    How I Became a Muslim


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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by Riham View Post
    I'm a little surprised at your interest in my story, Impey. I didn't think non-Muslims would be interested in reading it.... nor care to ask questions the way you have. It seems to me you are yourself struggling to know the truth.... or have doubts in your mind and something you read in my story made sense to you. Anyway, I'm happy that you have come here to this forum in search for answers.
    Stories are always interesting if they are truthful accounts as to how a person comes to faith or for that matters looses it. So I am not looking for 'answers' as such as if there is only one right one but understanding. I cannot understand at all how someone could become a Muslim which seems almost totally legalistic and I suppose philosophically that is why I am here.

    In my last post, I mentioned universal principles of truth that can be found in the Bible. These gems of truth can be found anywhere.... in any book or any religion. It doesn't matter who utters them. They are eternal in nature and self-evident. But when we come across a teaching that cannot be classified as universal truth.... such as this line here, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

    ..... it would matter a lot who utters it. In this case, Jesus (peace be upon him) is supposed to have said it. But this was recorded by someone called Matthew.... about whom we know very little. Since I cannot be sure of Matthew's truthfulness, I cannot believe in these words. I would have doubts. But if it was Prophet Muhammad (saws) saying it, I would have immediately accepted it.
    Interesting, so you would accept ANYTHING as long as you knew the person was known to be truthful? Suppose I say 'my wife is the most beatiful woman in the world' and I think my self as truthful would you accept it? Now I am told that Mohammed is supposed to have said there are more women than men in hell - does it not occur to you to ask how he could possibly know that and it cannot be a self-evident universal truth can it?

    Here's another statement found in the Bible that cannot be classified as self-evident, universal truth: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16). This statement is from someone called John. Who is John? What do we know about him? If we could verify his truthfulness and be convinced of his God-fearing character, then we should have no problem accepting the above information. But since we do not know anything much about John, we cannot be sure. I'd be justified to have my doubts...... and to reject such a teaching on the grounds that it contradicts what the Bible teaches about God in The Old Testament...... that God is ONE.
    Of course you can have doubts, I would for such a claim by Jesus and so for me it would be about faith because one cannot 'prove' such a fact as true or false. But I wonder are you being consistent here since it seems to me we either say Mohammed wrote the Qu'ran (via scribes) or it has no author since we cannot I think check it out with God, ipso facto you again have to rely on truthfulness but without any way of proving it?

    And by the way, I believe in the concept that God is ONE not because the Bible says so, but because it's the self-evident, universal truth.... clearly observable in the perfect order and magnificence of this universe.
    I would like to agree with you but some of the brightest minds on earth have come to quite a different conclusion - so who is wrong you or them? If I were you I would have to step back a little and accept that my mind is tiny and I must not make it the measure of all things.
    Last edited by Impey; 06-24-2011 at 10:22 PM.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by Impey View Post
    If I were you I would have to step back a little and accept that my mind is tiny and I must not make it the measure of all things.
    My dear brother in humanity, to not use my mind and make it the measure of all things is to become like an animal. I do not wish to go down to that level and live like a beast. The ability to think and reason is what separates man from animals... So I'm so sorry... I can't give that up.

    If you wish to do so, well.... nobody's stopping you.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by Impey View Post
    I have never I think heard this before as one is familiar with Martyrs going straight to heaven (though how killing the innocent does that I cannot say)
    No, even this depends upon the intention for doing so. I definitely do not see that blowing ones self up along with innocent people as an act of martyrdom, but rather of suicide and murder which are huge sins.
    But what I would like to ask is why if as you say the Qu'ran is God's last word would he omit to tell us a certain way to get to heaven, surely that is the most important question of all if one is a believer?
    There is no 'formula' to follow to ensure ones salvation for one does not know the sincerity of his own heart or the condition of his faith upon his death.
    I also wonder what God would do if I (say) did massive amounts of good works, much, much more that you but did not believe? Of course I can ask the question also the other way round if I believed but did nothing good? In short logically, it looks like good works are the deciding factor not believing?
    Judgment is only for Allah (swt), but I would much, much, much rather die as a Muslim with only a few good deeds than to die as a Kafir with many good deeds. The most significant good deed of all is testimony that, "I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is His servant and messenger." I hold onto this testimony that I made over 29 years ago and again I stand on the promises that Allah (swt) made in the Quran of forgiveness and gardens of Paradise for those who believe and do good deeds.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    SubhanAllah what a lovely story and what a lovely sister we have now in Islam, thats what i love about it! So many interesting muslim sisters we get from all over the world, MashAllah and they help us all bind together in a refreshing inspiration : )
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by Riham View Post
    My dear brother in humanity, to not use my mind and make it the measure of all things is to become like an animal. I do not wish to go down to that level and live like a beast. The ability to think and reason is what separates man from animals... So I'm so sorry... I can't give that up. If you wish to do so, well.... nobody's stopping you.
    I get the feeling I have offended you?

    I think you have misunderstood what I was saying. The mind is all we have and in a way it is all we are and if we loose it or regulate it to second place we are no better that animals. However, all human beings seem able to be logical and can rationalise things or events but it is also obvious that our minds, our thinking abilities are limited and it is in the sense that I used the phrase 'tiny' mind.

    What surprises me, even shocks me, is how certain you are of your own conclusions reached by your own intellectual processes. On the one hand you accept without question what Mohammed said or did as absolute truth but for everything else you decide what is or is not truth, or a universal truth as you call it - why are you so certain of your own rational powers, I certainly am not of mine?

    For example, Socrates, one of the finest thinkers the world has ever seen said "If I have any authority it is based upon the sure notion that I know nothing." On the face of it this sounds absurd but what it is really saying is that if we forget our limitations and close our minds to argument, new knowledge then we are sure to fail. One only has to consider conspiracy theories to see this where scores of people believe in absurdities: vaccines cause autism, aliens have abducted people, the CIA created aids, 9/11 was a Zionist sponsored event, the holocaust is a myth and so on. Indeed once you think you are immune from such things you are in fact showing your susceptibility to them. Let's face it which of us has never been caught out by a sales gimmick of some kind and ended up buying something we did not need or want. It has to be said also that if we believe in God who created the vastness of eternity then pretending we know exactly the mind of God in every circumstance is foolishness in the extreme.

    This is why we must treat all knowledge as tentative always allowing that we just might be wrong. In fact this is the scientific default position, being aware that new theories, new explanations, new interpretations or new data might totally undermine what we thought was solid. Of course we try to obtain confirmations, or verifications, for nearly every theory and if we are honest we not only look for things that uphold the theory but also more importantly, events which are incompatible with the theory, that is an event which would have refuted the theory. When we speak of religious things we run into trouble because they are not generally refutable. A theory which is not refutable by any conceivable event is non-scientific. Of course irrefutability is not a virtue of a theory (as people often think) but a vice.

    For example, to use one of your examples that Jesus said, as recorded by Matthew "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." Now it is one thing to accept that Jesus said this, indeed I can see no obvious reason to deny it, but the truth of the actual words is unfalsifiable, that is there no way we can show it to be true if it is true and no way to show it to be false if it is false - it really is totally irrelevant whether Matthew or Jesus were known to tell the truth, the statement cannot be tested and cannot be shown to be true or false. In passing I note, and you may correct me if this is wrong, that Mohammed like Jesus never themselves wrote anything down and always it was a scribe or sometimes several scribes and in general as far as I know we know less about their honesty than that of Matthews'.

    In the case of Jesus or Mohammed if you can only indicate a statement's truth with corroborating evidence that these men were truthful - in effect you have introduced ad hoc some auxiliary assumption in such a way that it (the theory) escapes refutation. Such a procedure is always possible, but it rescues the theory from refutation only at the price of destroying, or at least greatly lowering, its status.
    Last edited by Impey; 06-26-2011 at 05:44 PM.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by Impey View Post
    why are you so certain of your own rational powers, I certainly am not of mine?
    Because the only way to know the truth is by using reason. This is how all detectives solve mysteries. Try it.... and you might be surprised how certain you can be when you use your reason without allowing bias or preconceived ideas to color your judgement.


    format_quote Originally Posted by Impey View Post
    On the face of it this sounds absurd but what it is really saying is that if we forget our limitations and close our minds to argument, new knowledge then we are sure to fail.
    If we use our reason we would know that we have many limitations. But we would also know that understanding and wisdom cannot be acquired without the use of reason. It is reason that helps us to distinguish truth from falsehood.



    format_quote Originally Posted by Impey View Post
    It has to be said also that if we believe in God who created the vastness of eternity then pretending we know exactly the mind of God in every circumstance is foolishness in the extreme.
    And who is pretending to know exactly the mind of God? Why pretend at all? I don't believe in pretenses.

    format_quote Originally Posted by Impey View Post
    This is why we must treat all knowledge as tentative always allowing that we just might be wrong.
    Information that you think is true can't be classified as knowledge. If people said that the Earth was flat, that's information. But whether that's knowledge, no. That's not knowledge. Knowledge is when you know something to be true for sure. If you said that the Earth was round, yes. That's knowledge. If you said that 2 + 2 was 5, that wouldn't be knowledge. It would be knowledge only if you said that 2 + 2 was 4. One cannot say that the answer to 2 + 2 is 4 but that's tentative and we just might be wrong.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by MustafaMc View Post
    No, even this depends upon the intention for doing so. I definitely do not see that blowing ones self up along with innocent people as an act of martyrdom, but rather of suicide and murder which are huge sins. There is no 'formula' to follow to ensure ones salvation for one does not know the sincerity of his own heart or the condition of his faith upon his death. Judgment is only for Allah (swt), but I would much, much, much rather die as a Muslim with only a few good deeds than to die as a Kafir with many good deeds. The most significant good deed of all is testimony that, "I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad is His servant and messenger." I hold onto this testimony that I made over 29 years ago and again I stand on the promises that Allah (swt) made in the Quran of forgiveness and gardens of Paradise for those who believe and do good deeds.
    I think I understand what you are saying about faith but it kind of sounds odd that you seem to feel that good deeds, which I would take as solid evidence of faith, are almost discounted. If I may illustrate what I mean by an analogy. Suppose I as a teacher ask you to define the famous problem solving idea called SWOT. So you rush off to Wikipedia and write it out - does that really mean you know it? Now, you may disagree, but for me the answer is NO, the only way I as a teacher will be able to see that you know it is IF you can use it to produce an analysis of a problem situation.

    So if you or anyone says they have faith then for me anyway it has to be seen in action, in a transformed life. Now you can argue as a believer that God sees the heart and looks at you intention and rewards that. But I find that rather empty and would wonder why bother to believe if it makes no difference. I suppose what I would say is that the truth can only be spoken by those who live it, and only heard by those who heed it.

    Have you heard the famous parable "A man had two sons; he went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work in the vineyard today.' He answered, 'I will not'; but later he changed his mind and went. The father went to the second and said the same; and he answered, 'I go, sir'; but he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?"

    Consider intentions here and say what you answer is?
    Last edited by Impey; 06-29-2011 at 05:22 PM.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by Riham View Post
    Because the only way to know the truth is by using reason. This is how all detectives solve mysteries. Try it.... and you might be surprised how certain you can be when you use your reason without allowing bias or preconceived ideas to color your judgement.
    I agree with you that using ones reason is a way of establishing truth, but what I am talking about is how we can know that there are no flaws in our reasoning. However, your statement "the only way to know the truth is by using reason" is wrong. Firstly, reason always needs evidence, data to back it up. Take your detective idea, he might make an inspired deduction about how the crime was committed but unless he can find evidence that fits his deduction it is nothing but hot air. Secondly, there is no way you or anyone else can establish the truth about whether it will rain next Thursday by reasoning. Even if I state it in a stronger way by saying 'it has rained every Thursday for the last 191 days (evidence), therefore it will rain next Thursday' - you would be justified in feeling more sure but it is impossible to know the truth with certainty; to do that you have to wait until Thursday. Thirdly, it is also a fact that there are many problems that have no solution and again no amount of reasoning will deliver one. Lastly, it is obviously (self-evident?) true that two or more people armed with the same facts may by reasoning reach different conclusions, often opposite conclusions. Next, it is impossible to be totally unbiased, the best we can ever do is be aware of our bias and let that consciousness stop our natural bias interfering too much with our judgements. To put it in your words "You cease to be unbiased when you think you are unbiased." Similarly, we cannot avoid preconceived ideas but only be aware of them and to think otherwise is danderous intellectual arrogance.

    I must say that coming from a Muslim the phrase 'the only way to know the truth is by using reason' was a great surprise to me as it would automatically exclude revelation as a way to access the truth. But there are many things that we cannot reason to the truth. If I say 'he lies because he is demon possessed' well that might be the truth but I cannot see anyway to show it is false if it is or true if it is - its just too weird a claim and no amount of reasoning can distinguish truth from falsehood in this case. This I think is true for almost all religious claims.

    Information that you think is true can't be classified as knowledge. If people said that the Earth was flat, that's information. But whether that's knowledge, no. That's not knowledge. Knowledge is when you know something to be true for sure. If you said that the Earth was round, yes. That's knowledge. If you said that 2 + 2 was 5, that wouldn't be knowledge. It would be knowledge only if you said that 2 + 2 was 4. One cannot say that the answer to 2 + 2 is 4 but that's tentative and we just might be wrong.
    Well I partly agree here in that we always need evidence or a way to test any claim for truth. But even in the case of 2 + 2 = 4 there are issues since the rules of arithmetic are based on axioms, meaning statements of truth we assume but cannot prove. Can you explain why (-1)x(-1) = +1, why two negative multiplied together make a positive as it sounds wrong, but why does it have to be like that?
    Last edited by Impey; 06-29-2011 at 05:43 PM.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    Impey, You DO know the forum rule that a previously banned member (for very serious violations) is not allowed to register again even if they change their screen name?
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan View Post
    Impey, You DO know the forum rule that a previously banned member (for very serious violations) is not allowed to register again even if they change their screen name?
    Not sure what you mean by this. I have said that I am here to find out if I can why someone becomes a Muslim. Hence the discussion with Riham since she is both certain if her faith and her own power of reason and I would like to know where such certainty comes from. I have no other agenda and not defending budism, christainity, or any other philosophy as I feel my posts will show - if this is a no go area then please tell me and I will go elsewhere to find an answer - perhaps you can recommend somewhere
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    format_quote Originally Posted by Impey View Post
    Not sure what you mean by this. I have said that I am here to find out if I can why someone becomes a Muslim. Hence the discussion with Riham since she is both certain if her faith and her own power of reason and I would like to know where such certainty comes from. I have no other agenda and not defending budism, christainity, or any other philosophy as I feel my posts will show - if this is a no go area then please tell me and I will go elsewhere to find an answer - perhaps you can recommend somewhere
    You don't have to pretend to be dumb. You are actually dumb. Next time when you re-register, change your computer, your router, your provider, change your country of residence, change your new style of writing and arguing, and most importantly: change your brain, because your current brain is too sick from worshiping a baby human as god.

    Would you like me to disable your account and you go voluntarily so it will say on your account: disabled on request,
    or do you like a more humiliating way (which befits you actually)?
    Last edited by Ramadhan; 06-30-2011 at 01:40 AM.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    Assalamu alaikom warahmato allah,
    Maybe I am a bit late, but I just read it today
    Alhamdolillah for your Islam, both of you.
    If you wish to remind your husband with what he was believing in, or if you have a friend who is still Christian, pls download my material and read it, The Truth about Christianity, ..., I have spent long time to make it.
    It is nice to see the truth from outside the box.


    BRMM
    How I Became a Muslim

    DOWNLOAD:The truth of Christianity, Trinity, Jesus & God (130 pages) in PDF http://www.4shared.com/document/OBA20Hqu/The_Truth.html & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8FtRXuTlqs
    READ & LISTEN:Holy Quran Word by Word http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp.
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    salaam

    I've missed Impeys posts - But how do you know that animals dont have minds - how do you even know other people have minds? You might be familar with solipcism? futhermore Socrates didnt write anything down? so How can we be sure thats actually a quote from Socrates? - what about thoughts how do we know other people have them for certain? or your ancestor times 1000 do you know who they were and what they did if there is no historical and empircal evidence for there Existence? does that mean they didnt exist ever? - You seem to have no problem of "knowing" all about these things with no method of verification.
    Last edited by Zafran; 08-19-2011 at 02:56 PM.
    How I Became a Muslim

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
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    Re: How I Became a Muslim

    Masha'Allah

    Great Share,Many Thanks
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