Before I came to Islam, I made sure to talk to some people who have left the religion before I made my decision. In my talks with them, many of them born Muslims, cited the bad actions of Muslims as the reason why they no longer believed in the religion in nearly 100% of the cases.
Some of these were examples like seeing others getting drunk, fornication, gender inequality (i.e. women being punished but men going unpunished for committing major sins), being cheated out of money, reckless behavior and physical abuse.
Which indicates that it is very powerful the way the believers treat one another and how it can have a very negative effect on a person's faith and make them leave the religion all together. Back then, I was not a Muslim so I didn't fully understand what it meant when one told me that "Muslims are no better than anyone else."
He was right in that Muslims are human beings and imperfect.
Is there a punishment for someone whose incorrect Islamic etiquette causes someone not to embrace Islam or leave it all together? I see this happening all the time. Some people embrace Islam but leave it shortly after because they are treated awfully, if not worse, than non-Muslims by their own brothers and sisters in Islam.
The other day I was talking with someone who studied Islam and said that reading it on paper it seems like a beautiful idea that will work in terms of Islamic governance and fixing some of the things wrong in the world but when you try to put it into place it will not work because of the major deficiency and division of modern Muslims.
But I wonder for Muslims out there, at any point, especially in recent times, have the actions of other Muslims made you question why you're apart of Islam? Strengthened your faith or made you feel ashamed? And if so, what do you do to help yourself understand and remind yourself that Islam is different from the actions of Muslims?
Did any of you pause before embracing Islam or experience some hardship after being a more active Muslim because of your local Muslim community?
No actions of bad muslims have ever made me wonder why I am muslim. Their behaviour might upset me but not to the point where I feel I am in the wrong religion. I am talking about the people around me. What really ****** me off is when people do stupid things and claim that it is for Islam.
Its easy to ignore muslims who are disobedient, but the muslims who misrepresent Islam really gets under my skin
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Strengthened your faith or made you feel ashamed? And if so, what do you do to help yourself understand and remind yourself that Islam is different from the actions of Muslims?
Being in the company of not only knowledgable muslims but also with akhlaq/adab.
It's really great. You can share your views, you can laugh together, and when we correct each other's mistakes it's done with utmost humility..
Being in the company of not only knowledgable muslims but also with akhlaq/adab.
It's really great. You can share your views, you can laugh together, and when we correct each other's mistakes it's done with utmost humility..
I really admire these people.
You're right, Hulk. That is very beneficial and comforting. The problem is that I can't seem to find Muslim sisters like this to be friends with where I live but I'll keep trying in shaa Allah...
The actions of some Muslims do not make me doubt my faith, although it can be off putting for new comers to Islam but we have to remember why are we Muslims?? Islam covered everything in our life, even things that might hurt somebody’s feeling, the prophet peace upon him said “ When three persons are together, two of them must not whisper to each other without letting the third hear, until others are present, because it would hurt him.”
The fault of Muslims is not fault of Islam, for example if a hospital seem to get all the surgeries wrong, and all the patients seem to die due errors. Do we abolish surgeries?? This exactly the case with Islam, the message is clear , and pure but not all so called Muslims follow it, just choose your Muslim friends carefully. The Prophet peace be upon him said: “The example of a good companion and a bad companion is like that of the seller of musk, and the one who blows the blacksmith’s bellows.. So as for the seller of musk then either he will grant you some, or you buy some from him, or at least you enjoy a pleasant smell from him. As for the one who blows the blacksmith’s bellows then either he will burn your clothes or you will get an offensive smell from him.”
I have a colleague who disbelieved because he claims he simply does not believe that the river parted long enough for moses to walk through, that Jesus came from a virgin and that Muhammad (saws) (peace be upon all the prophets) went to heaven (al isra wal miraj).
So immediately I thought about the darkness of the heart and I asked him, "When did you have your first girlfriend and become intimate?" , he replied "at the age of twelve".
I said to him, "you dont feel like you turned your back to God then for your desires?"
He replied "No" and began joking as they do.
So.... those who claim bad behaviours of muslims, they are making excuses, please understand this. Ofcourse muslims behave badly, I BEHAVE BADLY, may Allah forgive me. But how irrational is a man to conclude his eternal fate based on the action of a tainted soul.... how unfortunate is this man....
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
Before I came to Islam, I made sure to talk to some people who have left the religion before I made my decision. In my talks with them, many of them born Muslims, cited the bad actions of Muslims as the reason why they no longer believed in the religion in nearly 100% of the cases.
Some of these were examples like seeing others getting drunk, fornication, gender inequality (i.e. women being punished but men going unpunished for committing major sins), being cheated out of money, reckless behavior and physical abuse.
Which indicates that it is very powerful the way the believers treat one another and how it can have a very negative effect on a person's faith and make them leave the religion all together. Back then, I was not a Muslim so I didn't fully understand what it meant when one told me that "Muslims are no better than anyone else."
He was right in that Muslims are human beings and imperfect.
Is there a punishment for someone whose incorrect Islamic etiquette causes someone not to embrace Islam or leave it all together? I see this happening all the time. Some people embrace Islam but leave it shortly after because they are treated awfully, if not worse, than non-Muslims by their own brothers and sisters in Islam.
The other day I was talking with someone who studied Islam and said that reading it on paper it seems like a beautiful idea that will work in terms of Islamic governance and fixing some of the things wrong in the world but when you try to put it into place it will not work because of the major deficiency and division of modern Muslims.
But I wonder for Muslims out there, at any point, especially in recent times, have the actions of other Muslims made you question why you're apart of Islam? Strengthened your faith or made you feel ashamed? And if so, what do you do to help yourself understand and remind yourself that Islam is different from the actions of Muslims?
Did any of you pause before embracing Islam or experience some hardship after being a more active Muslim because of your local Muslim community?
Oh absolutely Yes Yes Yes! I was saying to my husband who is a born Muslim regarding this and he said in his country I would not see what we see here. Yes, I feel that so very much. I feel very discouraged to see how poorly Muslims in general act, whether its in my own community or online. I just want to say something there are areas to live and see great Muslims and there are areas you may not like to live...
The actions of some Muslims do not make me doubt my faith, although it can be off putting for new comers to Islam but we have to remember why are we Muslims?? Islam covered everything in our life, even things that might hurt somebody’s feeling, the prophet peace upon him said “ When three persons are together, two of them must not whisper to each other without letting the third hear, until others are present, because it would hurt him.”
The fault of Muslims is not fault of Islam, for example if a hospital seem to get all the surgeries wrong, and all the patients seem to die due errors. Do we abolish surgeries?? This exactly the case with Islam, the message is clear , and pure but not all so called Muslims follow it, just choose your Muslim friends carefully. The Prophet peace be upon him said: “The example of a good companion and a bad companion is like that of the seller of musk, and the one who blows the blacksmith’s bellows.. So as for the seller of musk then either he will grant you some, or you buy some from him, or at least you enjoy a pleasant smell from him. As for the one who blows the blacksmith’s bellows then either he will burn your clothes or you will get an offensive smell from him.”
born muslims are hardly muslims. they are no more muslim than a doctor's child is a doctor. they hardly know anything about their religion. truly, if you give them an exam about islam, they most likely won't pass. for them, any thing to do with the religion is more a cultural thing than religion. that is why such people leave many islamic rituals so easily.
others are misguided. they think that by just saying "astaghfirullah" all their sins will be forgiven; that they can do what ever they want and then simply say "astaghfirullah." but that is wrong. one can not play games with Allah.
there are verses that show that sins done in ignorance are only forgiven, meaning sins done deliberately risk not being forgiven. other verses say that sincere repentence will be forgiven. sincere repentence is repentance after which the sin is not repeated. additinally repentence should be accompanied with regret for doing the sin. sinning knowingly and thinking that you'll "wipe" the sin simply by asking for forgiveness is really deceiving one's own self.
People are human beings. Doesn't matter what religion or part of the world they are from. If they sin or do not follow their religion the way they should, it's THEIR responsibility...it's not the religions fault. Using an example someone used above about not blaming a car but the driver. When someone hits you from behind are you going to yell at the driver or the piece of metal on the cars mirror???
all fine and dandy but what do you do when the so called "Islamic scholars" begin to seem just like any other clerics, pastors and what not, based on the life they live in North America? I am talking about Al-Maghrib and the like. Anyways. If I am to learn deen from someone, I'd find some teacher who lives a relatively shabby life by modern standards and has dedicated life to learning rather than earning.
Most Pakistani Muslims (women and men) whom I've met (these are the people I am most comfortable generalizing about because I am convinced of my generalizations because of the sample size), are partially or peripherally Muslim. These people believe in Allah but it is all just on the back burner. Religion is not THE main focus of their life. They'll throw "inshAllahs" and what not around but their thinking is not clear. They are confused about many things. They live their life exactly like the way atheists live! I cannot diffrentiate between the two. Except maybe alcohol or parties. Even that is blurring if you ever visit Pakistan.
I had issues with their understanding of women's rights, global peace, feminism, morality, evolution, personal space and individualism, involvement in dunya, governance, and stuff like that. At one point many years ago I did think I do not want to be a part of religion of people whose worldviews are exactly like those of atheists or kaafirs.
You know, you begin to think how can you worship the God the person you so hate worships and loves?
But I realized God is free of what these people do and I should let go of my ego and begin to worship "their" and everyone else's God.
Hope it made sense.
Last edited by CosmicPathos; 10-21-2012 at 04:12 AM.
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
But I wonder for Muslims out there, at any point, especially in recent times, have the actions of other Muslims made you question why you're apart of Islam? Strengthened your faith or made you feel ashamed? And if so, what do you do to help yourself understand and remind yourself that Islam is different from the actions of Muslims?
My choice in choosing islam is because of many things (I won't elaborate here) and I am in no doubt with regards to its authenticity. What I have doubts on is my understanding on any particular topic as there are lots to learn. If ever I feel down or upset or in anyway dissatisfied it is only because of my own personal frustrations. Why does not Allah answer my prayers? Why did this happen to me? etc...
Yes I do feel ashamed of certain actions taken by muslims as much as I feel proud of actions taken by non muslims, in this respect, I look at the humanitarianism aspect of the people of the world and feel that there is good (or evil) in mankind.
I long ago realised that I am alone accountable for my actions and that if anyone were to intercede for me it would be on account of my deeds to them on the day of reckoning (if this is even allowed).
The question is how can we leave a faith we know is true on account of other people's action? That would be a 'shallow' excuse for me and has probably more to do with our desires which we do not want to reveal to others, so we find reasons for our 'disbelief'.
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
it's said that Islam is the best religion with worst followers
Reminds of a quote "Rugby is a game for hooligans played by gentlemen and football is a game for gentlemen played by hooligans". But the 'worst followers' I guess are those who become extremists, far from the teachings of 'moderation' and respect for others, also forcing opinions on people.
format_quote Originally Posted by Hulk
What really ****** me off is when people do stupid things and claim that it is for Islam.
Yes, that too or using threats of hell to get their way.
Then how can you fear, if you disbelieve a Day that will make the children white- haired? (73:17)
Truth is that most people truly don't believe in the Hereafter. Even if they say they do. Would anyone do a wrong deed if they TRULY believed they would be asked and punished for it?
So it comes down to faith. Fix your faith and you'll fix many problems. If your belief is correct, then before taking any action your own self will stop and ask you , 'what will be your reply to Allah regarding this action?' Then, no matter how angry you are or how upset you are with someone, you won't take the wrong action. This is a fact.
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