Your Opinion on Israel

My dear brothers and sisters - regardless your religion,

Israel is always -and has always been- a very sensitive topic, now more than ever. It is especially an emotional topic since it is related to religion.

I am very curious to hear what your opinion is about Israel, and what the best solution would be according to you.

Do you think Israel has the right to exist (If yes, in what form?) Would you agree with the existence of Israel if the UN resolutions are respected and no new settlements are made? If you don't want a Jewish state at all, do you think the Jews should be able to stay where they are? or should they go 'back'? or should they have a special place within palestine?

I believe in 2 possible options:
- 2 new sovereign countries which are respected by both sides, a Jewish Israel and a state of Palestine, according to the 1948 border resolution.
- 1 new secular state of Palestine in which Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze and Atheists can live together, and maybe with special administrative areas meant for certain groups (I prefer this one)

I am aware that there might be a lot anger due to the recent Israeli attacks, but nonetheless I hope you can give me your honest answer.
:thankyou:

I think there is a very simple answer to this.

1. Israel is against the Torah because the vast majority of Jews (except Messianics which arent even mainstream) believe that they are an exiled people who can only establish a state when their mosiach comes. They rejected Jesus long ago so they missed the boat on that. So in essence they are still exiled and forbidden, according to the Torah and prominent Rabbis throughout history, to establish Israel.

2. So if they dont have a religious reason, what else? The concept of a Jewish nation??? The Jews in ISrael are largely from Europe who have absolutely no common descent with the arab Jews who lived in the land for millenia.

So, they cant claim Israel on religious grounds, or racial grounds, so what is there? Nothing. They should dismantle the state and live side by side with the other INDIGENOUS people of the land. They have done this for centuries and it worked out fine.


Simply it should not exist. The real question is, how to dismantle it.

It shouldn't have been created in the first place but since it's managed to hold on over 60 years I think it should be allowed to go on and defend itself if necessary.
Resistance is completely legitimate however for the time being futile and unwise.

my opinion, Israel has no right to exist, they must be destroyed.

You are right the prince..Israel has zero right to exist. InshaAllah with the help of Allah(SWT) he will give us victory over them. Israel will be defeated and they will run and hide as the prophecy said.

Whatsthepoint said:

It shouldn't have been created in the first place but since it's managed to hold on over 60 years I think it should be allowed to go on and defend itself if necessary.
Resistance is completely legitimate however for the time being futile and unwise.

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Your logic makes no sense. Would you let a robber get away with theft if he managed to hold on to the stolen goods for 60 years??? That idea is laughable.

The_Prince said:

my opinion, Israel has no right to exist, they must be destroyed.

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What should happen with the millions of jewish inhabitants if that happens according to you?

Ro4Unity said:

What should happen with the millions of jewish inhabitants if that happens according to you?

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Like br. AntiKaratekid said, they are not indigenous to the land, they literally pushed out of all the Palestinians who are the real inhabitants. And they are still killing them by the hundreds to this day. Some of them migrated from their homelands, because they believed that Israel is a jewish state and that should be their home. The real question should be, what about the Palestinians?

Why must the zionists always play the victim?

Ameena* said:

Like br. AntiKaratekid said, they are not indigenous to the land, they literally pushed out of all the Palestinians who are the real inhabitants. And they are still killing them by the hundreds to this day. Some of them migrated from their homelands, because they believed that Israel is a jewish state and that should be their home. The real question should be, what about the Palestinians?

Why must the zionists always play the victim?

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Zionist Extremism is not to be justified in any way. But please don't forget that there are victims on both sides. Most Jews are born in Israel instead of abroad. Some Jews originate from countries where they aren't allowed/safe today (think of Iran, Iraq, etc.) Some jews are only jews by name and are actually atheist. To make a long story short: Many 'Israeli's' are in Israel because they know nothing better than being there as in their homeland. They can't help that they are born there.

Would it be acceptable for you if Israel ceases to exist and becomes palestine, and the jewish people stay?

Ro4Unity said:

I believe in 2 possible options:
- 2 new sovereign countries which are respected by both sides, a Jewish Israel and a state of Palestine, according to the 1948 border resolution.
- 1 new secular state of Palestine in which Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze and Atheists can live together, and maybe with special administrative areas meant for certain groups (I prefer this one)

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The first option, although using the pre 1967 borders rather than the 1948 ones. On grounds of practicality if nothing else, the second could never be made to work except in the imagination.

Your logic makes no sense. Would you let a robber get away with theft if he managed to hold on to the stolen goods for 60 years??? That idea is laughable.

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The only thing laughable is your metaphor. Israel has every 'right' to exist, because the people who live in it, indigenous or not (and most were born there and so are), want it to. Amazingly enough, just about every nation state on the planet exists for much the same reason.

The only thing laughable is your metaphor. Israel has every 'right' to exist, because the people who live in it, indigenous or not (and most were born there and so are), want it to. Amazingly enough, just about every nation state on the planet exists for much the same reason.

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This the same way I think... We are all born somewhere, and we are all humans. It is not right to hold all Jewish citizens responsible for the attacks. It is equally unfair as blaming all germans for the holocaust or all muslims for 9/11.

Imagine this: There is an illegitimate muslim state somewhere, stolen from other people, and you are born amongst the "oppressors". How would you feel to be kicked out of there to a strange country you don't know of?

Ro4Unity said:

What should happen with the millions of jewish inhabitants if that happens according to you?

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They should learn their lesson and stop being racial supremacists. A one state solution will be in place then that grants equality.

AntiKarateKid said:

They should learn their lesson and stop being racial supremacists. A one state solution will be in place then that grants equality.

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I think that'd be fair enough.

Trumble said:

The first option, although using the pre 1967 borders rather than the 1948 ones. On grounds of practicality if nothing else, the second could never be made to work except in the imagination.



The only thing laughable is your metaphor. Israel has every 'right' to exist, because the people who live in it, indigenous or not (and most were born there and so are), want it to. Amazingly enough, just about every nation state on the planet exists for much the same reason.

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Trumble trumble trumble, tomorow I will forcibly kick you out of your house. After that, if you so much as raise your voice, I will blow you back to the stone age. Seem fair? You and Israel do.

Your "defense" of israel turns a blind eye to the holes in its argument to exist. They have to religious basis, no ethnic basis ( most of the population emigrated to there), and you should stop hissing and spitting and realize that.

At this point Israel as much right to exist as any other country in the region. From Israel's perspective, the challenges to its right to exist are exactly why violence is necessary.

Keltoi said:

At this point Israel as much right to exist as any other country in the region. From Israel's perspective, the challenges to its right to exist are exactly why violence is necessary.

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And why is that? Does time make anything more moral? A kidnapped child is no more the child of the kidnapper whether 1 year has passed or 100. It is still stolen.

AntiKarateKid said:

And why is that? Does time make anything more moral? A kidnapped child is no more the child of the kidnapper whether 1 year has passed or 100. It is still stolen.

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The Israelis could also state that the land was stolen from them in the past. Any statement of who is "right or wrong" in this conflict on the basis of land ownership is faulty. It depends entirely on one's point of view.

In any case, Israel isn't going anywhere. Facing that reality is the first step towards peace.

AntiKarateKid said:

And why is that? Does time make anything more moral? A kidnapped child is no more the child of the kidnapper whether 1 year has passed or 100. It is still stolen.

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AntiKarateKid, I have two question for you.
1) You'd opt for an independent Palestinian state, how do you think this must be acheived?
2) Do you think the occupation of Palestine by Israel is worse than the occupation of Western-Sahara by Morocco, in which also many Saharwis have been killed and forced to flee, a huge fence/wall has been built on the border, etc.?

Why such a big issue over land?