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Questions concerning the Qur'an and Islam

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    Questions concerning the Qur'an and Islam

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    What is the seven ahruf?

    What is the Qiraat?

    what are these alleged scribal errors?Are they in the Tashkent and topkapi manuscripts?

    are these two the oldest surviving manuscripts?

    Posted by someone in whyislam


    Firstly, it's wrong to say "one of the copies sent out by the Caliph Uthman is still in existence today. It lies in the Museum of the City of Tashkent in Uzbekistan, Central Asia". In fact,only part (about 40%) of the copy in Tashkent (Samarkand manuscript) is ancient (although probably not from the 1st Century hijra, as it uses Kufic script), the rest is of much later date.

    Secondly, the expression about "results confirming that there have not been any changes in the text from its original time of writing" is ambiguous, and is much too wide-reaching. There are many differences between the ancient manuscripts. As to their appreciation, significance and importance, it's a discussion for specialists.

    Jeffery conducted a detailed comparison between the Samarkand text and an (apparently) equally ancient manuscript from the Khedivial Library in Cairo, and noticed a considerable list of differences (several hundred) including scriptural errors, missing or repeated words etc etc.

    A critical edition of the Quran, comparing the different versions, would obviously be of great help but, to my knowledge, it has never been produced.
    I was browsing a thread called Original copies of the Quran and I found this guy's posts.I supplied him the refutation(from islamic awareness) to this allegations made by Jeffery.



    Last question:why was the Qibla changed from Jerusalem to Mecca?


    Thanks in advance.and please umm...don't flame.Please brothers and sisters.

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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    Salaam Abdul Aziz ,

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
    What is the seven ahruf?

    What is the Qiraat?
    Please see the following thread:

    http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=1202

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
    what are these alleged scribal errors?Are they in the Tashkent and topkapi manuscripts?
    The Qur'an at the time of Muhammad (SAWS) was no different than the Qur'an we have today. Here is a useful link about the alleged scribal errors:

    http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qur...l/scribal.html

    Another useful link (if you haven't already come across them):

    http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/

    “so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction”

    [al-Baqarah 2:144]

    When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) first came to Madeenah, he used to pray facing towards al-Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem), with the Ka’bah behind him and Syria in front of him. But after that he hoped [?} that Allaah would change that, so he started lifting his face towards the heavens, looking for Jibreel to come down with the Revelation telling him to turn towards the Ka’bah, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Verily, We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad’s) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah)”[al-Baqarah 2:144]

    So Allaah commanded him to turn towards al-Masjid al-Haraam
    Also, visit this link to see why:

    http://www.drzakirnaik.com/pages/qanda/9.php

    Questions concerning the Qur'an and Islam


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)
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    waji's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    Aslam u Alikum
    brother to ur first question i didn't got that word ahruf
    2 Qiraat. it is the way u recite quran or read quran in the best way
    3.according to my knowledge there are three Oldest Quran in the world right now of Usman (Razi Allahu Taala unho) years of khilafat one is in london second is in istambul and the third one is this one
    3. Qibla was changed by Allah and there is only one point we can think it is because prophet Muhammad (Sal'Allahu Alahi Wasalam) like Makkah more than any other city
    so Allah made it the Qibla
    Allah know better and every thing
    salam
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    Aslam u Alikum
    Osman brother good i was finding that ayat
    jazak'Allah
    salam
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    In addition, the change of the Qiblah was also a proof and symbol that the leadership of the nations has been transfered to this Ummah. This is because Allaah (Exalted is He) has said in another verse that the Ummah of the Prophet is better than the Children of Israel.

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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    thanks everyone.
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qu...al/scribal.html

    so there weren't any scribal errors?


    I am confused about Jeffery.
    What were this rival codices and the 'variant readings'?

    Firstly, it's wrong to say "one of the copies sent out by the Caliph Uthman is still in existence today. It lies in the Museum of the City of Tashkent in Uzbekistan, Central Asia". In fact,only part (about 40%) of the copy in Tashkent (Samarkand manuscript) is ancient (although probably not from the 1st Century hijra, as it uses Kufic script), the rest is of much later date.
    umm....what about this?
    Last edited by Bittersteel; 09-29-2005 at 01:36 PM.
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam


    format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Aziz
    http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Qu...al/scribal.html

    so there weren't any scribal errors?
    There are no scribal errors in the Qur'an. When copies of the main maunscripts were being made, if anyone made even the slightest slip of the pen it would have been easily noted. Manuscripts that contained any mistakes in copying were corrected by the Muslim community when they were compared to the other Manuscripts.

    I am confused about Jeffery.
    What were this rival codices and the 'variant readings'?
    Jeffery was a man who tried and tried to find an example of variants in the Qur'anic manuscripts, but all his attempts proved futile as he himself was forced to admit that all the volumes examined show no example of textual variance. (See Al-Azami's book p. 206).

    In his conclusion, he followed in the path of all the other orientalists who reluctantly had to admit that the Qur'an today has been perfectly preserved since its revelation.
    http://www.islamicboard.com/showpost...63&postcount=4

    You mentioned that you were unable to acquire the material I referred you to on the compilation and preservation of the Qur'an. If that's the case, you should not be trying to debate this subject until you acquire that material.
    Questions concerning the Qur'an and Islam

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    okay but umm...last one.what's this guy saying about 40% being ancient and the rest of later date?

    these rival codices were completely fabricated?

    Last edited by Bittersteel; 10-01-2005 at 05:29 PM.
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    What's Ahruf???
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam



    format_quote Originally Posted by Bass
    What's Ahruf???
    http://www.islamicboard.com/showthread.php?t=1202



    Questions concerning the Qur'an and Islam


    "I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."

    ~ 'Abdullāh bin al-Mubārak (rahimahullah)
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    SURAH:2: 230. So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they re-unite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. Such are the limits ordained by Allah, which He makes plain to those who understand.


    umm...wait.Is it necessary for the women to marry another husband?

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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    format_quote Originally Posted by Abrar
    umm...wait.Is it necessary for the women to marry another husband?

    yes, after a divorce then you can't re-marry just like that.

    Questions concerning the Qur'an and Islam

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    well brother what is the full explanation of the verse?

    and how a divorce must be carried out?

    Last edited by Bittersteel; 10-03-2005 at 01:23 PM.
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    Did different schools of thought had an impact on hadith and fatwas?
    when did the tafsirs of the verses come into existence?

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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam


    format_quote Originally Posted by Abrar
    Did different schools of thought had an impact on hadith and fatwas?
    Different schools of thought use various ahadith to give different fatwas. I'm not sure what you mean by a school of thought having impact on hadith andd fatwas.
    when did the tafsirs of the verses come into existence?
    Tafsir is the explanation of a verse and its always existed, as the Prophet saws used to explain the verses, and the companions would explain them after him.

    Questions concerning the Qur'an and Islam

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    and it was preserved throughout the ages?was it umm...written down in a book or something?

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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam


    Tafsir of the Prophet saws and his companions is found in many ahadith which were recorded very early on.
    Questions concerning the Qur'an and Islam

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    seriosly.. no offence to the bros - but this is really irritating, not the fact that you want to learn more about islam, but the fact that people go to non muslims to give dawah when they dont hav full knowledge..

    this leads the person who is giving dawah to weaken his own faith and question whether his own beliefs are right or wrong.. trust me - bro ansar doesn't even go to non muslim forums to give them advice - instead he gives dawah through the muslim forums.. the kafir will reject the truth unless Allah (swt) has removed the seal from their hearts... so let them come to islam to learn it (with a open heart). even the knowledgable people including the salaf stayed away from the kufar, because they know that hearts are weak and a person can fall into the trap so easily..



    2.006: As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.

    2.007: Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).


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    Re: Questions concerning the Quran and Islam

    akhee,
    You are absolutely right.
    Questions concerning the Qur'an and Islam

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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