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    FATIMAHABDULLAH's Avatar
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    Question of 'aHadeeth

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    Hi Everyone Asalam Alaykum

    Ok, let me ask and you try to understand and answer.

    The Sunnah are example of the Prophets actions, the 'aHadeeth than are further narritives on what the action ment and how it should be applied to Islamic belief structure. Am I on an accepteable logic loop?(LOL)

    Now, there seems to be continual efforts at verification of the 'aHadeeth?, true or false.

    There are in fact six versions, each containing thousands of 'aHadeeth. True or False.

    When, and if I have an issue over a particular 'aHadeeth what besides prayer is open to me for handeling percieved inconsistancys as they relate to the Sunnah. I accept that Sunnah are clearly commanded for us to follow. I also am aware of the verification process the 'aHadeeth under go.

    Is there a valid fear on my part that the 'aHadeeth can become somthing if followed put somthing unacceptable between me and Allah

    Hope this helps you understand your simply :confused: :sister: (LOL)

    Fatimah
    Last edited by FATIMAHABDULLAH; 02-27-2005 at 06:07 AM. Reason: not clear on a explanation
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    sis,

    Your post seems a bit vague sis and I cannot see how the term hadeeth is related to the ones who abuse the Islamic rulings.

    I do know that there are alot of cults who rejected the Sunnah of the Prophet wanderin' in Malaysia (i.e. Rashid followers).

    However, if you really want to read a article eloboratin' the stance of the hadeeths in Islam, then please go to The Authority of Sunnah

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    It is only vague if you want it to be.

    See above
    Last edited by FATIMAHABDULLAH; 02-27-2005 at 06:09 AM. Reason: Redirect back to first post
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    Bro, refering me to yet anouther authority to explain the authority is not helpful. Were is your authority to answer from your fondation of faith?

    Please answer the question in the light of understanding, that what I desire is how understand if the Qur'an is complete and that the Prophet provided relevent examples for behavior(Sunnah). Your is seeking clarification why the 'aHadeeth which seem to be more akin to narritive of behaviors in exhaustive detail and contantly open for reinterpetattion, why they must be followed in the first place. I don't understand the 'aHadeeth. I understand Sunnah, but 'aHadeeth seem ot to be Sunnah.

    The 'aHadeeth seem capable at times of trying to validate the validity of the Qur'an against themselves, instead of the other way around. Are the Scholars of Islam seeking to replace independenant thought of the faithful, with their perceptions of Isalm. If, so wouldn't they be placing themselves in a postion between Allah and the believer.

    Salam

    Does that help clarify I really need simple explanation, based on truth. I was hoping to get this information from you and others of the Muslim community. If you have to defer answering a question to an authority of Islam, than that clearly bothers me.

    As to misuse of the Mosqu as a forum for political activities is not simply a Malaysian problem. It also occurs in Saudi. It was asked as a seperate issue to the 'aHadeeth
    Wa'salaam,

    Sis, I'm not referrin' you to another authority since the Hadeeth is similiar to the Sunnah. The sunnah signifies directly how the Prophet (P) lived his life (it literally stands for way) while te Hadith is the narration of his life and/or what he approved. Both cover the same ground and thus are applicable to his actions, sayings and practices. And then the Sunnah is composed of three sections which are, fil, qual and taqrir.

    The 'aHadeeth seem capable at times of trying to validate the validity of the Qur'an against themselves, instead of the other way around. Are the Scholars of Islam seeking to replace independenant thought of the faithful, with their perceptions of Isalm. If, so wouldn't they be placing themselves in a postion between Allah and the believer.
    The Qur'an validates the Sunnah of the Prophet on many verses (again, it's dealt in the treatise)

    Allâh has surely blessed the believers with His favor when He raised in their midst a Messenger from among themselves, who recites to them His verses and makes them pure and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, while they were, earlier in open error. (3:164)

    Here the word Hikmah which stands for Wisdom is referred to the Sunnah.

    He (Allâh) is the One who raised up, among the unlettered, a Messenger from among themselves who recites the verses of Allâh, and makes them pure, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom. (62:2)

    Prophet Ibrahim (P) made a supplication to Allah (Exalted is He) which goes:
    Our Lord, raise in their midst a messenger from among themselves who recites to them Your verses and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom and purifies them… (2:129)

    Now, Allah (Exalted is He) has mentioned many times in the Qur'an to obey the Prophet (P).

    Obey Allâh and the Messenger, but if they turn their backs, Allâh loves not the disbelievers. (3:32)

    And obey Allâh and the Messenger so that you may be blessed. (3:132)

    O those who believe, obey Allâh and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. (4:59)

    And obey Allâh and obey the Messenger and beware. (5:92)

    So fear Allâh and set things right between you, and obey Allâh and His Messenger if you are believers. (8:1)

    O those who believe, obey Allâh and His Messenger and do not turn away from him, while you are listening (8:20)

    And obey Allâh and His Messenger and do not quarrel with each other, and so lose heart. (8:46)

    Say: Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger; then, if you turn away, upon him rests what is laid on him, and upon you rests what is laid on you. If you obey him, you will be guided. (24:54)

    O those who believe, obey Allâh and obey the Messenger and do not make your deeds vain. (47:33)

    So establish salaah and pay zakaah and obey Allâh and His Messenger. (58:13)

    And obey Allâh and obey the Messenger but if you turn your backs, Our Messenger has only to deliver the manifest message. (64:12)

    And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, Allâh shall admit him in the Gardens underneath which rivers flow. (4:13)

    And whoever obeys Allâh and the Messenger, they are in the company of those who Allâh has blessed. (4:69)

    All that the believers say, when they are called to Allâh and His Messenger that he may judge between them, is that they say, “We hear and we obey”: it is these who are successful. Whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger and fears Allâh and has awe of Him: it is these who are the winners. (24:52)

    And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has won a great success. (33:71)

    And the believers, men and women, are friends of each other; they bid the fair and forbid the unfair; they establish sAllâh and pay zakaah and they obey Allâh and His Messenger. These are those upon whom Allâh shall have mercy; Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Wise. (9:71)

    If you obey Allâh and His Messenger, He will not diminish you anything of your deeds. (49:14)

    The Prophet's are Allah's representatives. Ergo, the obedience of the Prophets is indeed the obedience of Allah (Exalted Is He) Himself.

    And whoever obeys the Messenger, thereby obeys Allâh. (4:80)

    And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger and transgresses His limits, He shall admit him to Fire where he shall remain forever. (4:14)

    And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error. (33:36)

    And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, for him there is the fire of Jahannam. There they shall remain forever. (72:23)

    And whoever makes a breach with Allâh and His Messenger, then Allâh is severe in punishment. (8:13)

    Did they not come to know that whoever opposes Allâh and His Messenger, for him there is the fire of Jahannam? (9:63)

    There are also verses that only the obedience of the Prophet (P) himself are mentioned:

    And establish salaah and pay zakaah and obey the Prophet so that you may be blessed. (24:56)

    And if you obey him (the Prophet), you shall find the right path. (24:54)

    On that day those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger will wish that the earth might be levelled with them. (4:42)

    And whoever makes a breach with the Messenger after the right path has become clear to him, and follows a way other than that of the believers, We shall let him own what he chose and shall admit him in the Jahannam, and it is evil as a returning place. (4:115)

    The Prophet (P) does not say anythin' when it's pertainin' to Islam unless he is guided by a relevation from Allah (Exalted is He)

    And he (the Prophet (P) does not speak out of his own desire. It is not but a revelation revealed (to him). (53:3-4)

    Allah (Exalted is He) also emphasised many times in the Qur'an that if one wants to be on the right path, he/she should follow the way of the Prophet (P)

    Say, if you love Allâh, follow me and Allâh will love you and forgive you your sins. (3:31)

    Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find written down with them in the Torah and the Injeel… (7:157)

    Believe, then, in Allâh and His Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, who believes in Allâh and His words, and follow him so that you may be on the right path. (7:158)

    Allâh has surely relented towards the Prophet and the Emigrants and the Helpers who followed him in an hour of difficulty. (9:117)

    O Prophet, sufficient for you is Allâh and those who followed you of the believers. (8:64)

    (The believers say: Our Lord, we have come to believe in what You revealed and followed the Messenger. So write us among those who bear witness. (3:53)

    Say: This is my way. I call to Allâh with sure knowledge, I and whoever follows me. (12:108)

    And We did not appoint the Qiblah on which you were earlier, but that We might know the people who follow the Messenger as distinct from those who turn back on their heels. (2:143)

    Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the praise of Allah. (33: 21).

    But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. (4: 65).

    But for the Grace of Allah to thee and His Mercy, a party of them would certainly have plotted to lead thee astray. But (in fact) they will only lead their own souls astray, and to thee they can do no harm in the least. For Allah hath sent down to thee the Book and Wisdom and taught thee what thou knewest not (before): and great is the Grace of Allah unto. (4: 113).

    Then We put thee on the (right) Way of Religion: so follow thou that (Way), and follow not the desires of those who know not. (45: 18).

    The Prophet (P) warned us that people in the future will disregard the sunnah and only follow the Qur'an such as the deviant groups (i.e Rashida followers which has a wide support in Maleysia)

    --

    There will be a man to whom my hadith will reach him, while he is sitting comfortably, and he will say between me and you is the book of Allah, whatever we find in it that is halal we will make it halal, and whatever we find in it haram we will make it haram. Then the Prophet says: whatever the messenger of Allah has made haram is as if Allah has made it haram.

    --

    All of my Ummah will enter heaven except those who refuse (or reject), so they asked him: oh messenger of Allah, who is the one who refuses? The Prophet said: whoever obeys me will enter heaven and whoever obeys me he has refused.

    --

    Do not ask me about what I didn't' mention, because what has caused the destruction of the previous nations was their questioning and disagreement with their Prophets. If I forbid you from doing something, avoid it, and if I order you to do something do as much of it as you possibly can.

    --

    May Allah make bright (beautiful, happy) the face of the one who listens to my saying, and he memorizes it, understands it and delivers it to others. How many people may carry knowledge while they are not knowledgeable, and how many people carry knowledge to those who are more knowledgeable than them.

    You cannot act soley on the Qur'an only. Allah (Exaled is He) revealed the Book (Qur'an) and the Hikmah (Sunnah).


    Furthermore, how did the scholars replace Ijtihad with their perceptions of Islam. Islam is not based on the interpretations of invididuals but based on the Qur'an and the Sunnah. If one wants to interpretate the Qur'an, he has to refer to the Sunnah. Allah (Exaled Is He) was pleased with the companions and were the most knowledgeable of the Qur'an and yet they couldn't interpretate the Qur'an without referrin' to the Sunnah.

    Abu Bakr (ra) said:
    "What earth could carry me, what heaven could shade me if I spoke about a single verse of Allah's Book according to my mere opinion or to say something of which I have no knowledge?"

    Umar (ra) said:
    "I only fear for you two matters: A man that interprets the Qur'an in a way other than the interpretation in which it is meant, and a man who vies with his brother in acquiring property."

    He also said:
    "I do not fear for this Community a believer whose faith holds him in check nor a dissolute man whose corruption is evident. However, I fear for it a man who read the Qur'an until he slickened his tongue with it, then he misconstrues it."

    He also said: "Beware of those who put forward opinions (ashab al-ra'i ) for they are the enemies of the Sunna. They have despaired of memorizing the Prophet's -- Allah bless and greet him -- narrations and have resorted to forwarding opinions. As a result they went astray and misguided others."

    He also said: "Certain people shall appear who will dispute with you concerning the Qur'an: reply to them with the Sunan. For the possessors of the Sunan are the most knowledgeable about Allah's Book."

    Ali (ra) said:
    "Do not argue with them by means of the Qur'an for it bears many interpretations (innahu dhu wujuh ), but argue with them by means of the Sunna."

    Ibn Mas`ud (ra) said:
    You must hold fast to knowledge [= Sunna] before it is taken away. This taking away consists in the departure of those who possess it. None of you knows when he shall sorely need one of them, or needs what he has. Verily you shall encounter a people who claim that they are calling you unto Allah's Book when in fact they have tossed it behind their backs. So hold fast to knowledge, beware of innovating (al-tabaddu` ), beware of excessive contention (al-tanattu` ), and beware of deep involvement (al-ta`ammuq ). Hold fast to the ancient (al-`atiq )."

    bn `Abd al-Barr said: "By the words `this Qur'an has been torn to tatters' he means - and Allah knows best - that its interpretation has been torn to tatters except that by means of the narrations of the practicing Salaf. So its interpretation is limited to whatever sound hadiths are narrated from them and excludes what people come up with in their minds or dispute about in their opinions, in the fashion of those who follow their lusts."

    and many more statements from the companions which I cannot state at the moment but you can read it at Here

    Let me also state that this 'individual interpretation' is simply a ludicrous method used by the reformists in Islam who want to "modernize Islam". The same method used by the Jews and Christians. We, Muslims, have the isnad that the Jews and Christians are lackin'. The Christian Hadith is composed of matn (text) but no chain of narration (isnad). Without isnad, anyone can fabricate anythin' and regard it as a sayin' from the authority.

    "A hadîth (pl. ahâdîth) is composed of two parts: the matn (text) and the isnad (chain of reporters). A text may seem to be logical and reasonable but it needs an authentic isnad with reliable reporters to be acceptable; cAbdullah b. al-Mubârak (d. 181 AH), one of the illustrious teachers of Imâm al-Bukhârî, said, "The isnad is part of the religion: had it not been for the isnad, whoever wished to would have said whatever he liked."



    The reason why I referred you to this treatise (i.e. the authority of the Sunnah) is 'cause the science of the Hadith cannot be expounded in one single statement. It's way too deep and intricate.

    The questions that you simply are statin' now sister are clearly mentioned in great detail in the treatise.

    Wa'salaam
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    masha Allah, beautiful explanation indeed.
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    Asalam Alaykum

    Go back a few thousand words. Why are the 'aHadeeth similar to the Sunnah. This is the opinion I seek. I have access to everthing you posted. But still you and other Brothers and Sister won't provide a simple explanation.

    I see you have an admirer, but do you and your admirer realize that I am of the opinion that your playing hard, at not answering a question put to the board in good faith.

    If their similar, is it this similarity that is provides for you in good faith to teach others to follow 'aHadeeth as if they are Sunnah.
    Last edited by FATIMAHABDULLAH; 02-19-2005 at 04:01 PM.
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    sis,

    Could you be little a less abstract with your syntax. I'm havin' trouble tryin' to decode what you're trying to say.

    It seems that you still haven't grasped what the terminological terms Sunnah and Al-Hadeeth stand for.

    Let me take a different approach.

    Sunnah is the practical example of the Prophet. Sahih Hadiths is the Sunnah but in record (i.e. recordin' of the Sunnah). They both are synonymous when referring to the sayings of Prophet (P).


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    The ahadith are recorded narrations about the Prophet which give us insight on his sunnah.
    Question of 'aHadeeth

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
    "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]


    Visit Ansâr Al-'Adl's personal page HERE.
    Excellent resources on Islam listed HERE.
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    to make things abit simple sister how would YOU explain the term Hadith? Before we can disscuss anything further you have to understand what this term means.
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    see above
    Last edited by FATIMAHABDULLAH; 02-27-2005 at 06:06 AM.
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    Re: Question of 'aHadeeth

    Asalaam Alaykum

    This was a waste of my time. Instead of objective well responded posts I recieved a poor welcome... I guess it just goes to show having a website forum dosen't mean it can help.

    The last sillyness was after my question was ignored, I am than told to provide you an answer to your question???? , without having recieved a response to mine....(LOL)

    Fatimah
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