How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries? (OP)
when a muslim country either bans sharia entirely, or is founded upon democracy and I know from personal experience that democracy and Islamism don't mix....
jihad? dawah? democratic elections? what ate the guidelines of the implementation of sharia?
Also, keep in mind that when the `Ulamaa of the past spoke about "Hadeeth", they included the Aqwaal (sayings) of the Sahaabah and of the Taabi`een as well.
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
That you believe or not if he indeed remembered that amount, is not of importance, even IF he remembered really that amount. Knowledge doesn't equal to understanding................
its should not be understood that i am degrading those great people but I mean to say even if they were not true (imo Imaam Abu Hanifa did not go to toilet or even vomit or even passed air even ONCE -one night in 40 years etc ) it does not reduce my respect towards those great leaders of Ummah a little bit .The stories of the Imaam Abu Hanifa of his Piety are plenty like the Jumping oh his Queue from the shadow of a Person's house SHOWS how minute & precise he was in the orders of Allah and his Prophet and similarly Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hambal taking lashes shows his piety are enough for us but in contrast The Second best Person of our Ummah & closest companion of Prophet Abu bakr as siddique narrated only few hadith and he also burnt 500 of them because of his takwa too but still his grade is incomparable from those who remembered much hadith
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
@talibilm : I respect your views though but bro huzaifa's views are more logical. Most important aspect of deen is hidden from your eyes that all the Islamic ilm ( of hadith, fiqh, tafseer, qirat etc) utterly depends on personalities that are to be trusted without any specific dalil despite they are fallible. Only prophet s.a.w is infallible.
Jazakallah for your advice bro , I do respect Bro Huzaifa's knowledge but when there is Difference of opinions it has to be discussed for THE SAKE OF ISLAM . But we should learn to agree to disagree as was during sahabas themselves by opinions but not in muslim brotherhood .
I had even posted Bro Huzifa's comment about aqeedah on the ummah with his name on it shows the importance i give to the knowledgeable including you & others here BUT that's why am here to know & to express our doubts and concern to find the opinions and solutions, May Allah lead us to the right path
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
format_quote Originally Posted by Serinity
The Qur'aan is in Arabic. Therefore must be best understood in Arabic.
English translations are an understanding of the Ayaah.
This is logical tbh.
Allahu alam
You are correct but that does not mean a person cannot be on a right path because he does not know arabic & also a Person only knowing Arabic will be on the right path is untrue too. But in fact a hadith says that DURING a period THE great misguiders will be from the Arab speaking people.
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
format_quote Originally Posted by talibilm
its should not be understood that i am degrading those great people but I mean to say even if they were not true (imo Imaam Abu Hanifa did not go to toilet or even vomit or even passed air even ONCE -one night in 40 years etc ) it does not reduce my respect towards those great leaders of Ummah a little bit .The stories of the Imaam Abu Hanifa of his Piety are plenty like the Jumping oh his Queue from the shadow of a Person's house SHOWS how minute & precise he was in the orders of Allah and his Prophet and similarly Imaam Ahmad Ibn Hambal taking lashes shows his piety are enough for us but in contrast The Second best Person of our Ummah & closest companion of Prophet Abu bakr as siddique narrated only few hadith and he also burnt 500 of them because of his takwa too but still his grade is incomparable from those who remembered much hadith
Brother, you have understood my comment in the wrong perspective. I agreed with you. Often you see people hold some scholar or imaam as if whatever he says comes directly from Allah(swt) by the amount of knowledge he has. That is why i said, knowledge doesn't equals understanding. Doesn't mean like you said we should treat those scholars without respect, absolutely not. But these people come second when we talk about the first generation. We Muslims by majority have become sheep who follow blindly as if asking questions or being critical of certain approach that we now a days have is wrong.
The argument of Imaam Abu Hanifa being 40 years long with wudu doesn't add value to the argument. You look at his work and what he had to say. That is what you judge a person by, not because he achieved something..in his personal life. This for example is EXACTLY what people now a days look for. You see Donald Trump being a billionaire and a good business man (big achievements) and suddenly people admire him. While looking at his actions and his mentality, you despise him. While in case of Imaam Abu Hanifa, looking at his work etc, you admire him and are willing to listen what he more has to say as to gain more understanding.
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
@huzaifa
ibn Adam : I asked you where are those 7 lac ahadith imam Razi rh memorized...? Are you sure that imam ahmad b hambal rh had 1 million ahadith...? Then why we have only 4% ahadith in musnad ahmad...? What about the rest of 96%. Were they really narrated by different chains... If yes where are they..? I give another example: it's said imam bukhari rh memorized 3 or 6 lac ahadith; but as a matter of fact he couldn't get even 1 hadith as per his conditions (liqa and sima) which could bear the 'words' of azan.?.. Why he could get only 2602 (ahadith without repeating) Why he couldn't get the authentic ahadith as per his conditions so that he should have not repeated the same ahadith..? the same can be seen about other muhaddisin of sihah sitta as well... Why they could collect 4980 sahih ahadith (0.20%) out of 23 lacc ahadith...? How different chains can be proven..? Simply muhaddisin said this, so accept it without saying ifs and buts...?
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
format_quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person
When doing the dishes i was thinking about this and i remembered this aya.
"He said, "Did you see when we retired to the rock? Indeed, I forgot [there] the fish. And none made me forget it except Satan - that I should mention it. And it took its course into the sea amazingly" Qur'an 18:63
Which means he can also make you even forget your argument and thus deceive you.
Jazakallahu khairan for the reminder.
We cannot communicate with shaytan in the way like we communicate with other human. If you ask question to your friend, then your friend would answer in human way such as by talk to you, by comment in social media, post in forum, etc. However, if you ask question to shaytan, then saytan would not answer through whisper or voice in your head, but would manipulate your mind that make you doubt and asking more and more questions without ever get an answer. Finally your heart would full of doubt, and start to lose your iman.
Alhamdulillah if you have understood. Wa Iyyaki, brother.
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
format_quote Originally Posted by talibilm
am sorry to say (its not kuffar or shirk) i do not know whether He Imaam hambal said he remembered a million hadith because i could hardly believe it, similarly that Imam abu Hanifa prayed 40 years with wudu of Isha to wudu of Subuh. I believe them as exaggerations as was also said about by someone who is also knowledgeable . So I stick to the hadith ''THE BEST OF THE UMMAH 3 genearations the maximum. I do respect the other Scholars after that I said the PRIORITY of Fard untill naffl or Kufr, shrik ,all types and classification of Shirk , Haram, Makruh tahrim , Makruh etc decides whom I should follow.
Normally when i ponder on the noble Quran i used to take many translations and tafsirs and still compare with the Quran corpus which also uses Grammar of arabic to say on it.
Only this much we could do and Allah ar rahman is my wakeel and I after trying with the sunnah , the practise of Sahabas and the asking my heart 3 times as the hadith says to ask i follow the commandments of Allah.
For example the Zakat decision as per the Aaalim nd hafiz sahab who with whom i was close ans ask doubts with when i was in my teens clearly said there is no zakat for land but the Mufti ,,,
continue inshallah later
So continued here
But since a Mufti is deemed to have studied more than a aalim i gave more preference to him who said Its a Must to give zakat on land (at cost) which was bought for business & treat as goods in stock (though my heart did not accept it ) So i followed him which put me in much difficulty landing me in debts for my kids studies untill i found the right hadith its here #76
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?426285-Mostly-Overlooked-Hadiths-amp-Verses-and-their-Wisdom/page2
the REASON for such mistakes is missing of certain hadith regarding an issue and also we know Prophet or the rightly guided caliphas were practically ON THE FIELD before giving a fatwa. they did not stay ONLY in the Masjid or Madrasa but were on the worldy matters too in the battle field, in the trade market etc. So imho to become a good mufti they must also be academically knowledgeable to a little extent so that their fatwas will be practical and beneficial since Allah wishes ease for his slaves. Allah tested his sahabas firstly with the demise of Prophet and also in the complilation of the Noble Quran . Of course Prophet who is the most wise among humansdid not do untill Allah ordered it in such important things like the Hijra to Medina , treaty of Hudaibiya, compilation of Noble Quran etc ( though Prophet most probably knew such matters were of atmost importance to his ummah) because Allah swt put Prophet INTO TEST & so were SAHABAS PUT TO TEST & so Allah puts us into test with various opinions & sects to show how we manage our affairs with iqlaas or our Ego etc etc . sura http://legacy.quran.com/67/2 this is what for Allah made the universe for
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
@huzaifa ibn Adam : I asked you where are those 7 lac ahadith imam Razi rh memorized...? Are you sure that imam ahmad b hambal rh had 1 million ahadith...? Then why we have only 4% ahadith in musnad ahmad...? What about the rest of 96%. Were they really narrated by different chains... If yes where are they..? I give another example: it's said imam bukhari rh memorized 3 or 6 lac ahadith; but as a matter of fact he couldn't get even 1 hadith as per his conditions (liqa and sima) which could bear the 'words' of azan.?.. Why he could get only 2602 (ahadith without repeating) Why he couldn't get the authentic ahadith as per his conditions so that he should have not repeated the same ahadith..? the same can be seen about other muhaddisin of sihah sitta as well... Why they could collect 4980 sahih ahadith (0.20%) out of 23 lacc ahadith...? How different chains can be proven..? Simply muhaddisin said this, so accept it without saying ifs and buts...?
Brother, do you know how many books of Hadeeth there are?? You know, just on this program, "Maktabah Shamela" alone, there are Hundreds of books of Hadeeth, and these are only the ones that have been typed out on computer! There are hundreds more. Imaam al-Bukhaari mentioned that the number of authentic Ahaadeeth he LEFT OUT from Saheeh al-Bukhaari are much more than the amount he had put in.
I understand why you would ask this question, brother. These days, there is this idea going around that there are only six books of Hadeeth, and those are Bukhaari, Muslim, Abu Daawud, Tirmidhee, Nasaa'i, ibn Maajah. This is a completely wrong idea. There are HUNDREDS of books of Hadeeth out there, if not thousands. Some have not even been printed yet. An `Aalim was telling me that currently, in the library at Darul Uloom Deoband, there are hundreds of manuscripts that have not been printed yet. Let alone being available online, they aren't even available yet in book form. There are a lot more Ahaadeeth than the ones people know about.
Also, as I mentioned earlier, when the `Ulamaa said Hadeeth, they mean the sayings of the 124,000 Sahaabah as well as of the Taabi`een. And, a single Hadeeth can have up to 100 different chains of narrators, and thus the Muhadditheen would count this as 100 different Ahaadeeth.
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Brother, do you know how many books of Hadeeth there are?? You know, just on this program, "Maktabah Shamela" alone, there are Hundreds of books of Hadeeth, and these are only the ones that have been typed out on computer! There are hundreds more. Imaam al-Bukhaari mentioned that the number of authentic Ahaadeeth he LEFT OUT from Saheeh al-Bukhaari are much more than the amount he had put in. I understand why you would ask this question, brother. These days, there is this idea going around that there are only six books of Hadeeth, and those are Bukhaari, Muslim, Abu Daawud, Tirmidhee, Nasaa'i, ibn Maajah. This is a completely wrong idea. There are HUNDREDS of books of Hadeeth out there, if not thousands. Some have not even been printed yet. An `Aalim was telling me that currently, in the library at Darul Uloom Deoband, there are hundreds of manuscripts that have not been printed yet. Let alone being available online, they aren't even available yet in book form. There are a lot more Ahaadeeth than the ones people know about.Also, as I mentioned earlier, when the `Ulamaa said Hadeeth, they mean the sayings of the 124,000 Sahaabah as well as of the Taabi`een. And, a single Hadeeth can have up to 100 different chains of narrators, and thus the Muhadditheen would count this as 100 different Ahaadeeth.Was-Salaam.
I've read a bit of this topic bro... Millions of ahadith aren't found in all the books of ahadith... How exaggeration can be denied regarding muhaddisin were reported to have e.g. Your post displays that imam ahmad b hambal rh memorized 1 lac ahadith, the same post reveals the number of ahadith was 1 million... And only one statement may true either 1 lac or 1 million..?
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
I've read a bit of this topic bro... Millions of ahadith aren't found in all the books of ahadith... How exaggeration can be denied regarding muhaddisin were reported to have e.g. Your post displays that imam ahmad b hambal rh memorized 1 lac ahadith, the same post reveals the number of ahadith was 1 million... And only one statement may true either 1 lac or 1 million..?
Brother, I mentioned to you that there are Hundreds of Kitaabs of Hadeeth, all of them in Arabic. How many Kitaabs of Hadeeth have you read, to know that one million Ahaadeeth do not exist? Of those Hundreds of Kitaabs of Hadeeth, perhaps ten have been translated into English, if so many.
Are you aware that Imaam Abu Haneefah has his own Musnad (Hadeeth compilation)? That's just one Hadeeth Kitaab right there which many people aren't even aware of. And there are many more.
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
Imaam Abu Zur`ah ar-Raazi himself narrated 50,000 Ahaadeeth from one man, the Muhaddith, Ibraaheem ibn Moosaa as-Sagheer, one of Imaam al-Bukhaari's Asaatidhah.
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Brother, I mentioned to you that there are Hundreds of Kitaabs of Hadeeth, all of them in Arabic. How many Kitaabs of Hadeeth have you read, to know that one million Ahaadeeth do not exist? Of those Hundreds of Kitaabs of Hadeeth, perhaps ten have been translated into English, if so many.Are you aware that Imaam Abu Haneefah has his own Musnad (Hadeeth compilation)? That's just one Hadeeth Kitaab right there which many people aren't even aware of. And there are many more.
my Q was different... Anyways,... yes, I've read musnad imam azam and kitab ul athar as well. Besides sihah sitta I've darmi, ibn khuzema, hakim, 3 muwatta, tahawi and a few others (all are printed books -Arabic text with Urdu translation)
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
I hope this will answer your question, In Shaa Allaah:
قال الذهبي في ترجمة أحمد بن حنبل:
قال عبد الله بن أحمد: قال لي أبو زرعة: أبوك يحفظ ألف ألف حديث، فقيل له: وما يدريك؟
قال: ذاكرته فأخذت عليه الأبواب.
قال الذهبي: فهذه حكاية صحيحة في سعة علم أبي عبد الله، وكانوا يعدون في ذلك المكرر، والأثر، وفتوى التابعي، وما فسر، ونحو ذلك، وإلا فالمتون المرفوعة القوية لا تبلغ عشر معشار ذلك
Imaam adh-Dhahabi writes in "Siyar A`laam an-Nubalaa", under the biography of Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal:
"`Abdullaah ibn Ahmad said: Abu Zur`ah said to me, "Your father memorised one million Ahaadeeth." He was asked, "How do you know this?" He said, "I revised it with him and took from him the chapters."
Adh-Dhahabi said: "This is an authentic story showing the vastness of the `Ilm of Abu `Abdillaah (i.e. Imaam Ahmad). In those days, they used to count (as Hadeeth) those which are repeated, and the Athar (narrations from the Sahaabah and Taabi`een), and the Fataawaa of the Taabi`een, and that which is spoken as Tafseer, and the likes of that. Otherwise, the strong (i.e. authentic) and known Mutoon (texts) do not reach one tenth of that."
So, Imaam adh-Dhahabi is saying that the number of Ahaadeeth from Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم himself are less than one tenth of a million. However, when you add to that the Ahaadeeth repeated with many different chains, and all of the statements and narrations of the Sahaabah, and the statements and narrations of the Taabi`een, and the Fataawaa given by the Taabi`een, and the Tafseer given by the Taabi`een and by the Sahaabah, and then those statements, Fataawaa, etc. themselves are narrated with various different chains thus counting as additional narrations, all add up to make up this number of one million Ahaadeeth.
Now, whether we have this many in our possession right now or not does not affect the fact that Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal had memorised one million. You have the statement here of an Imaam of the calibre of Imaam adh-Dhahabi himself, one of the greatest `Ulamaa who ever lived, saying that this particular story is true. Just because a person in 2017 doesn't have one million Ahaadeeth in his possession, or one million Ahaadeeth aren't available online, does not mean that in the time of Imaam Ahmad, he did not have one million Ahaadeeth in his possession. Remember that during the time of the Tartar invasion, when they attacked the Muslim lands, they burned out thousands of Kitaabs and threw thousands upon thousands of Kitaabs into the sea. However, the Ahaadeeth of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم himself have been meticulously recorded and preserved until the present time, for those are the Ahaadeeth that are important for the derivation of Ahkaam (rulings).
I hope with this explanation the matter is now clear, In Shaa Allaah.
Was-Salaam.
Last edited by Huzaifah ibn Adam; 03-04-2017 at 10:17 PM.
Re: How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
format_quote Originally Posted by Huzaifah ibn Adam
Can you give me a link to that thread, akhi?
am trying to open ummah but i cant, Akhi.
Just click my name which you will find many threads in comparative religion sec and see my posts a few days before . I remember like it was in the Lounge on some aqeedah matter
Adh-Dhahabi said: "This is an authentic story showing the vastness of the `Ilm of Abu `Abdillaah (i.e. Imaam Ahmad). In those days, they used to count (as Hadeeth) those which are repeated, and the Athar (narrations from the Sahaabah and Taabi`een), and the Fataawaa of the Taabi`een, and that which is spoken as Tafseer, and the likes of that. Otherwise, the strong (i.e. authentic) and known Mutoon (texts) do not reach one tenth of that."
thanks for this clarification... If the same criterion (of one tenth) is applied on other muhaddisin...then...... Imam bukhari rh and imam Muslim rh. had 30 thousands each, imam abu dawud rh 50 thousands, imam ibn maja rh 40 thousands and imam nasai rh had 20 thousands narrations.
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Abu bakr as siddique narrated only few hadith and he also burnt 500 of them because of his takwa too but still his grade is incomparable from those who remembered much hadith
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