do you watch movies and listen to music?

Ibn Abi Ahmed · Oct 14, 2005

Surely you are the attention seeker. Please STOP SPAMMING. It is annoying. Post whatever you want in one post. The mods are going to delete ur posts.

Zuko · Oct 14, 2005

ahmed687 said:
Surely you are the attention seeker. Please STOP SPAMMING. It is annoying. Post whatever you want in one post. The mods are going to delete ur posts.

I think that she's not allowed to edit her posts.. So that's why she's posting new replies over and over again...

S_87 · Oct 14, 2005

Far7an said:
Assalamu alaikum

I love this part

:brother:

after ramadhan cinemas jam packed with muslims. eid day actually!

Ansar Al-'Adl · Oct 14, 2005

sumaiya27766483 said:
try not to

because nasheeds are just more better of listening to

and if you listen to music then on the day of judgement allah will pit hot boiling lead thru one ear and t will cum out the oder ear so nasty innit so quit listening

and i dont what you posted was approriate surely u are an attention seeker?

Click here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/showpost.php?p=96095&postcount=5

:w:

ummbilal · Oct 14, 2005

i watch films occationally but its usually pg rated, i hate to hear swearing, i gave up muslc years ago when i found out its haram.

i stopped watching sitcoms coz they are all about love, dating and pre marritial sex, i watch a lot of documentaries though, like blue planet etc..

i stopped watching the news because i was having massive panic attacks afterwards, it really stressed me out...so news is banned. on doctors orders.

i sometimes watch cartoon like samurai jack.

ummbilal · Oct 14, 2005

Muezzin said:
If you're female - watch it anyway cos too many girls watch soppy chick flicks and not enough watch testosterone-soaked shooty-bang-bang goodness.

are you encouraging muslimahs to watch a half naked man running through forests grunting at people???

seriously rambo is ok i think coz stallone didnt write the first, after that they go down hill :thumbs_do

can you tell i grew up in a very male house?
as the only girl??

i've seen rocky(pretty good story)all of them i think
terminator1,2 and even 3
preditor 1 and 2
commando
kickboxer

etc....

well, when we had the choice of what film to watch noone else voted for the burbs or trains planes and automobiles

my fav films...

my big fat greek wedding is good tooo

:rainbow:

Desai · Oct 15, 2005

" FIRST ATTACK. THEN DEFEND." It may sound like very strong words,
but let us consider the situation realistically. If an intruder has come
into your home, grab hold of your child, and is about to strangle him, what
would you do first? Will you first run to the phone and call the builder to
install strong security gate? Or will you simply grab the whatever available
and attack the intruder in order to save your child?
The intruder we have here is one...
- That teaches your child that the action hero's are (Allah forbid) the most powerful!
- It teaches your child to disrespect you.
- It shows your child sex acts by age 17 and teaches him/her to
engage in pre-marital sexual activity.
- It exposes your children to acts of violence and murders by
that age.
- It "scrambles the brains" and causes depression.
- It adversely affects your health and that of your family.

ENGAGE DAILY IN THE RECITATION OF THE QUR'AN.
Upon the recitation of each LETTER, one is blessed with ten rewards.
Recitation of the Qur'an creates nur of the heart.
The evil jinns and shaitaans flee from a home where the Qur'an is recited
regularly. Regularly read an authentic translation of the Qur'an and learn what the Qur'an says to you.

These aspects will make life itself more meaningful than merely watching tv. It will also enable one to attain the everlasting bounties of Jannah. May Allah grant us the ability to throw out the intruder (tv).

and Allah knows best

baby_muslimah15 · Oct 15, 2005

Muezzin said:
Music is a contentious issue.

Movies on the other hand... Hey, any action picture, I'm there!

Can't wait till they show Rambo on the telly again. If you're male and have never ever seen a Rambo movie - you haven't lived.

If you're female - watch it anyway cos too many girls watch soppy chick
flicks and not enough watch testosterone-soaked shooty-bang-bang goodness.

Hey I dont watch soppy chick flicks......I love action movies, and what is Rambo about???? I never heard of it.....I use to watch godfathers but den I got kinda bored cuz I seen em all, have any other good action fighting movies you recommend????? I really love racing movies...But then I love the movies that be really graphic and alot of gore and stuff..........BTw is rambo a old movie? Is it like ScarFace??? Cuz if soooo i'm really watching it!!!

czgibson · Oct 15, 2005

Hello Ansar,

Ansar Al-'Adl said:
I don't recall that being mentioned. I was under the impression that the benign is a minority.

I thought we'd agreed that somewhere, my mistake. Anyway, from what (little) I know of Islam, I think there is much more music Muslims would consider relatively harmless compared to the more nasty stuff we're all aware of.

But even if that's not the case, I must say that the harmful is certainly more visible and obvious in western culture, and the benign forms seem hidden to me. For instance, go to Apple iTunes -Music website, and what are the first things you see? Go to yahoo's music site and what are your immediate observations? What do you see when you walk into a music store?

I know exactly what you mean. That commercial attitude has very little to do with promoting music, and in an ideal world it would not exist. But just because that is what is most visible doesn't mean all music should be avoided. You're ignoring so much music that, let's be honest, you're not familiar with.

I have a problem with telling Muslims that there's no harm in going there and listening to music. The negative impact that will have on them is inevitable. And even if they initially go to just listen to some benign music, they'll gradually be lead deeper into the harmful areas.

Well, maybe. If someone listens to "harmful" music, is it then likely they'll become an evil person as a result? Take me, for example. I try to listen to every form of music that exists on Earth. I play several instruments, and I'm fascinated by it all. My question is, why could you not trust someone to listen to, say, Scandinavian death metal, Berlin techno or Burundi drumming and emerge unscathed? Perhaps I've indulged in the "harmful areas" of music, but the reason for that is that I listen to everything.

Simply because of the risks involved.

Could you tell me what risks I've taken as a keen audiophile?

I would advise people not to wander the streets of cities at nightime, not because everyone out at night is dangerous, but because there are dangers involved.

Go in a group and you'll have no trouble.

And with music, you're bound to come in contact with them. Also, there is the issue of where to draw the line between what's acceptable and what isn't. You imply that this should be left up to the person, but if someone does that, they'll gradually fall prey to the whispers of their desires and Satan and will slowly move into the harmful areas.

Really? Anyone who listens to music? I suppose I must have succumbed to Satan long ago!

As far as I'm concerned, contemporary music that is unacceptable is that which is produced with a concern for increasing profits, rather than advancing ideas about music. Anything else is fine with me.

That's why I would simply advise that they avoid it all together. Nevertheless, if someone was really intent on listening to some benign form of music and that's all they really wanted, I'm not going to make a tremendous fuss over it.

Right, it's the point about this not being a serious, binding restriction.

The implication here is that western music can inspire in ways that Muslim music or nasheeds can't, and that get's back to the idea of being ethnocentric.

Fair enough, that's part of what I wanted to say: I'm sorry if my words seem blinkered. I know for a fact that Islamic music and nasheeds mean far more to a believer than they do to me. That's obvious.

The point is that your comment works both ways - nasheeds and Islamic music inspire in ways that Western music can't, and vice versa.

Plus, I could point out that prayer moves the mind in ways that nothing else can, and that has become a lost feature of western culture. That's why we find so many westerners examining eastern religions in search of reviving their spiritual being.

An absolutely fair point. It's certainly true to say that many Westerners are exploring Eastern religions (as well as all sorts of cults, new age, feng shui type beliefs). The multiplicity of faiths in the West inevitably devalues them all. That situation has arisen because there is simply no reason to believe any of them. As G.K. Chesterton (English novelist and devout Christian) said: "When people stop believing in something, they will believe in anything."

Additionally, with idea of being ethnocentric, I wanted to point out that this extends to all parts of western culture, not just music. There's an expectation that people must conform to western culture, and that its generally superior.

I do think Western culture is immense and hugely important, but I'm aware that it's not the whole picture, by any stretch of the imagination. However, where have all the major inventions come from in the last 500 years or so?

I'll give you an example - Western celebrations. Muslims often find themselves in conversations like this:

"What did you get for Christmas?"
"err...I don't celebrate christmas."
"You don't celebrate Christmas?! Why not??"
"err...because I'm not a Christian"
"Bah! That's ridiculous - you don't have to be Christian to celebrate Christmas!"
This is probably something a lot of Musims living in the west can relate to.
The Muslim would wonder, Why is there this expectation that I have to celebrate Christmas? I'm not asking everyone why they're not fasting in Ramadan!

Of course you don't need to be a Christian to celebrate Christmas. It's a pagan festival anyway, now allied with commerce, and with very little to do with Jesus.

Well of course they're 'available', just as many cultures are available to westerners, because they're are secular, they can't do what they want without concern for any guidelines.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

There's really no reason for a westerner to avoid anything.

Anything cultural, certainly.

But I see a conflict between becoming a better Muslim and assimilating into western culture.

And therein lies the problem. Who says anyone needs to assimilate into Western culture? People can think as they please.

And the Muslims are not isolating themselves from other cultures - indeed, amongst the Muslim community you will find a broad range of different cultural influences, encompassing African, Arab, Indian, Oriental and many more cultures. We are open to different cultures.

Islam, from what I've seen, is the most insular of the major religions, and also the most given to proselytising. No other religion is so full of suspicion and half-concealed contempt for the non-adherent.

It's like advising people to stay away from most fast-food restaurants (a predominant feature of western culture) as they can be harmful to one's health, one's physical well-being.

All fast-food restaurants are bad for your health; not all music is.

While that is one point that may be involved, the guidelines for music stem from a totally different angle. I would say that the vast majority of music would be harmful for one's spiritual well-being. And in saying that, I don't think I'm closing off any benefit that couldn't be recieved through better means, and I don't think we're lacking in any way because we have Qiraa'at, Salaah (prayer) and Nasheeds.

Would it be fair to call this kind of thinking ethnocentric? In other words, since you have three aural aspects of culture, are the many thousands of others that exist on the planet not worth considering?

Now, I have a question for you. What is one word that best represents the predominant theme in western music? What is the main idea in most songs you will find when you walk into that music stroe, or go to that music site?

Two different questions.

1. The one word is "music". Since you're talking about such a huge area, there's no more specific referent.

2. The idea that's most apparent in contemporary Western pop music is sex.

Peace

Ansar Al-'Adl · Oct 15, 2005

czgibson said:
I thought we'd agreed that somewhere, my mistake. Anyway, from what (little) I know of Islam, I think there is much more music Muslims would consider relatively harmless compared to the more nasty stuff we're all aware of.

Okay, well if that's the case then obviously there's no harm in Muslims listening to that form of benign music. But if you expect Muslims to integrate it into our culture, then that's not very likely to happen.

Well, maybe. If someone listens to "harmful" music, is it then likely they'll become an evil person as a result?

Well, that's like asking if someone eats at fastfood restaurants, is it likely that they'll die? The point is that it's harmful for one's physical well-being to eat unhealthy foods, just as its harmful for one's spiritual well-being to listen to 'harmful' music.

That situation has arisen because there is simply no reason to believe any of them.

I think the situation arises because of a neglected spiritual side in people living in the west.

However, where have all the major inventions come from in the last 500 years or so?

To examine this question accurately, one has to look at the historical causes behind the downfall of the Islamic Empire, which used to lead the world in Sciences and Arts, while the rest of the world was in the 'Dark Ages'.

Islam, from what I've seen, is the most insular of the major religions, and also the most given to proselytising.

If something is the truth, why would anyone hesitate to share it with the world? If anything, the fact that Muslims are so intent on 'proselytising' is reflective of the strength of their conviction in their beliefs.

No other religion is so full of suspicion and half-concealed contempt for the non-adherent.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'suspicion' or 'contempt'.

All fast-food restaurants are bad for your health; not all music is.

Not all fast-food restaurants are bad for your health. Many have begun to offer very healthy choices, while others have been entirely devoted to healthy options all along.

Regards

czgibson · Oct 15, 2005

Greetings Ansar,

Ansar Al-'Adl said:
Okay, well if that's the case then obviously there's no harm in Muslims listening to that form of benign music. But if you expect Muslims to integrate it into our culture, then that's not very likely to happen.

This reinforces the point I made about the insularity of Muslim culture.

I think the situation arises because of a neglected spiritual side in people living in the west.

That's one way of putting it. I would say the spiritual side diminished in the West as more and more people began to see that it was, in fact, a fantasy.

To examine this question accurately, one has to look at the historical causes behind the downfall of the Islamic Empire, which used to lead the world in Sciences and Arts, while the rest of the world was in the 'Dark Ages'.

The Islamic world was certainly way ahead of other civilisations during the Dark or Middle Ages, but for some reason it stagnated. As I've hinted, I would attribute this partly to cultural insularity.

If something is the truth, why would anyone hesitate to share it with the world? If anything, the fact that Muslims are so intent on 'proselytising' is reflective of the strength of their conviction in their beliefs.

Fair enough.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'suspicion' or 'contempt'.

I'm talking about the attitude towards the kuffar engendered in Muslims from a young age. The belief that most of the population of the world will go to an imaginary place of eternal fiery torment called Hell is a contemptuous one, I believe. Christians believe it too, of course, but these days they make an effort to conceal it, because they are aware of how nasty it makes them sound.

Islam is supicious and contemptuous regarding innovation regarding religion, the influence of other cultures, kaffirs of every kind; suspicious and contemptuous, in short, of everything that is not Islam, to a degree that simply isn't found in other mainstream religions.

Not all fast-food restaurants are bad for your health. Many have begun to offer very healthy choices, while others have been entirely devoted to healthy options all along.

Ha ha ha!!! I stand corrected!

Peace

Ansar Al-'Adl · Oct 15, 2005

czgibson said:
This reinforces the point I made about the insularity of Muslim culture.

You make music synonymous culture, and I understand that it plays an integral role in western culture, but that doesn't mean that one should expect other cultures to integrate it and make it an integral part of their culture. This gets back to the issue of ethnocentricity. If we don't want to make music an integral part of our culture the way it is in western culture, why do we automatically recieve the label of 'insularity'? We're not asking westerners to integrate prayer into their culture and make it an integral part of their culture.

That's one way of putting it. I would say the spiritual side diminished in the West as more and more people began to see that it was, in fact, a fantasy.

That you think its a fantasy is not fact, its an opinion that you can't substantiate. And if that was the case, then we would not see such a desperate attempt to revive one's spiritual side that sends many people into long quests. Suicide rates are rising in the west because people have starved this side and neglected it, causing them to go into despair at the futility of their life. But of course, this is another topic all-together.

The Islamic world was certainly way ahead of other civilisations during the Dark or Middle Ages, but for some reason it stagnated. As I've hinted, I would attribute this partly to cultural insularity.

It seems that you have not adequately studied the history of the Muslim world if you feel that cultural insularity was a factor. If this was true then it should have caused a decline in the Muslim world when they first expanded and extended their territories into Africa, Perisa, India, Turkey, Malaysia and Spain. It did not, and the Muslim world integrated all of these cultures and thrived for centuries after that. You use the broad label of 'cultural insularity' simply because of the guidelines Islam has set with regard to music.

I'm talking about the attitude towards the kuffar engendered in Muslims from a young age.

Right, like the stories about how the early Muslims dealt with kindnesss with the Ethiopian Christians and how they were forgiving to even a non-muslim bedouin who urinated in the mosque.

Islam does not need to justify itself according to a secular philosophy where aall religions are equal, because they are equally false. Islam is justified according to its own philosophy that kufr is disobedience to God, that we are sent on this earth with a divine purpose and our lives are not futile, and that we must perform our duty to God and invite others to it as well.

The belief that most of the population of the world will go to an imaginary place of eternal fiery torment called Hell is a contemptuous one, I believe.

Those who reject faith in God will be punished, but God is most just and deals with everyone according to their own circumstances. If someone never recieves the true guidance, they are not held accountable for that.

Islam is supicious and contemptuous regarding innovation regarding religion

The divine message sent by God should not be altered.

the influence of other cultures

Only in what negatively impacts one's spiritual well-being.

kaffirs of every kind

Islam is not contemputuous of them, rather it seeks to guide them.

czgibson · Oct 15, 2005

Ansar Al-'Adl said:
You make music synonymous culture, and I understand that it plays an integral role in western culture, but that doesn't mean that one should expect other cultures to integrate it and make it an integral part of their culture.

My mistake - I don't mean to say that music = all culture, but I do think it's true to say that Islam is particularly incurious about other cultures.

This gets back to the issue of ethnocentricity.

Again, which attitude is more ethnocentric, one which is curious about other cultures or one that is not?

If we don't want to make music an integral part of our culture the way it is in western culture, why do we automatically recieve the label of 'insularity'? We're not asking westerners to integrate prayer into their culture and make it an integral part of their culture.

That you think its a fantasy is not fact, its an opinion that you can't substantiate.

That many people in the West in the late 19th and early 20th centuries began to see "the spiritual" as a fantasy is a fact that can be clearly substantiated by looking at the history of those times. Hume, Darwin, Eliot, Hardy, Freud, Nietzsche, Marx, Spencer all believed this - the list goes on and on.

And if that was the case, then we would not see such a desperate attempt to revive one's spiritual side that sends many people into long quests.

You're absolutely right that the West is experiencing some sort of spiritual revival, with people flocking to new-age healers and investigating Wicca and other such substitutes for religion. This is all happening as they lose faith in mainstream religion - I don't say it's a good thing or a bad thing; people are just finding new ways to waste their time.

Suicide rates are rising in the west because people have starved this side and neglected it, causing them to go into despair at the futility of their life. But of course, this is another topic all-together.

Yes; it's also an opinion that would be difficult to prove.

It seems that you have not adequately studied the history of the Muslim world if you feel that cultural insularity was a factor.

I expect you're right that I haven't studied Islamic history enough, but I still think what I'm saying is plausible.

If this was true then it should have caused a decline in the Muslim world when they first expanded and extended their territories into Africa, Perisa, India, Turkey, Malaysia and Spain.

Why would that necessarily follow? The Muslim world expanded and progressed up to the Middle Ages and the Golden Age of Islam, then attempted to hold on to that summit of achievement by maintaining an unadaptible system, not open to new or foreign influences, and thus stagnating. The cultural insularity I refer to originates from the time of the Golden Age, as far as I can tell. A culture that is expanding and extending its territories would obviously have to be more open and willing to accept other cultures, to avoid rebellion.

You use the broad label of 'cultural insularity' simply because of the guidelines Islam has set with regard to music.

I wouldn't say my labelling has derived simply from Islamic attitudes towards music. I've formed that opinion based on Islamic attitudes to many things from the Dar al-Harb.

Right, like the stories about how the early Muslims dealt with kindnesss with the Ethiopian Christians and how they were forgiving to even a non-muslim bedouin who urinated in the mosque.

Good stories, and there are many others like them showing Muslim kindness to non-Muslims. However, it would be very shortsighted to say that Muslims never express negative views of kaffirs. There's a strong undercurrent of resentment and simmering hostility towards them in the Muslim community, and it's clearly apparent on the world stage. It may not be the view of the majority of Muslims, but it's there.

Islam does not need to justify itself according to a secular philosophy where aall religions are equal, because they are equally false. Islam is justified according to its own philosophy that kufr is disobedience to God, that we are sent on this earth with a divine purpose and our lives are not futile, and that we must perform our duty to God and invite others to it as well.

So, Islam is justified by Islam. Fair enough, if you're happy with that reasoning.

Those who reject faith in God will be punished, but God is most just and deals with everyone according to their own circumstances. If someone never recieves the true guidance, they are not held accountable for that.

That's a fair view, I suppose. I'm interested in what you mean by true guidance, though. If someone in a tribe in the Amazon rainforest never heard about Islam in his life, it's very lenient not to expect him to have to work out the Islamic truth by hmself. What about if someone told him about Islam but didn't explain it very well? Presumably that wouldn't be true guidance - or would it?

The divine message sent by God should not be altered.

Does that mean there's nothing culturally or temporally specific in the Qur'an and hadiths?

Only in what negatively impacts one's spiritual well-being.

To a Westerner, that looks like an awful lot, since so many things are haraam. Of course, Muslims must be amazed that so many things are allowed in the West.

Islam is not contemputuous of them, rather it seeks to guide them.

True, Islam is not, but some Muslims are.

Peace

ummbilal · Oct 16, 2005

baby_muslimah15 said:
Hey I dont watch soppy chick flicks......I love action movies, and what is Rambo about???? I never heard of it.....I use to watch godfathers but den I got kinda bored cuz I seen em all, have any other good action fighting movies you recommend????? I really love racing movies...But then I love the movies that be really graphic and alot of gore and stuff..........BTw is rambo a old movie? Is it like ScarFace??? Cuz if soooo i'm really watching it!!!

rambo was made in about 79 so i'm guessing you'd call it old, i call black and white films old, that could be coz I am old hehe

:wilted_ro

Muezzin · Oct 16, 2005

czgibson said:
My mistake - I don't mean to say that music = all culture, but I do think it's true to say that Islam is particularly incurious about other cultures.

You're confusing 'culture' with 'religion'. Islam is a religion encompassing people of many disparate cultures. Whereas culture is a lifestyle influenced solely by the behaviour and attitude of one's countrymen, religion is a way of living that is decreed by God and communicated through man.

In any case, if your point is true, I don't see it in a negative light (if that was in fact your intention). Since Islam is a religion including members from many different cultures, it needs to be constant, unchanging, absolute, ensuring that its universal message is not garbled by culture.

Again, which attitude is more ethnocentric, one which is curious about other cultures or one that is not?

Islam does not forbid curiosity of other cultures. It does however forbid the engaging in of what it considers to be sinful practices, be they in other cultures or one's own native culture.

That many people in the West in the late 19th and early 20th centuries began to see "the spiritual" as a fantasy is a fact that can be clearly substantiated by looking at the history of those times. Hume, Darwin, Eliot, Hardy, Freud, Nietzsche, Marx, Spencer all believed this - the list goes on and on.

What of Newton, Einstein, Hawking? Some of the greatest scientific minds in our history believe in God. True, Newton died before the late 19th century, but few would argue against the prevalent influence of the latter two. If such great scientific minds believe in God, surely it is erroneous to call spirituality a fantasy, a passing fad.

While your list may have renounced religion, it does not make their opinion fact. Conversely, scientific theists' beliefs are not factual either - what is a fact is that the concept of faith, of some sort of intervention by higher authority than mere humans, is one present in all cultures.

You're absolutely right that the West is experiencing some sort of spiritual revival, with people flocking to new-age healers and investigating Wicca and other such substitutes for religion. This is all happening as they lose faith in mainstream religion - I don't say it's a good thing or a bad thing; people are just finding new ways to waste their time.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't really want to comment on wicca and 'other substitutes for religion' what with the recent Religious Hatred bill just waiting for passage

Why would that necessarily follow? The Muslim world expanded and progressed up to the Middle Ages and the Golden Age of Islam, then attempted to hold on to that summit of achievement by maintaining an unadaptible system, not open to new or foreign influences, and thus stagnating. The cultural insularity I refer to originates from the time of the Golden Age, as far as I can tell. A culture that is expanding and extending its territories would obviously have to be more open and willing to accept other cultures, to avoid rebellion.

Fair point, but the overriding philosophy of Islam is submission to God, not to other cultures, no matter what perceived victory it may give us.

Good stories, and there are many others like them showing Muslim kindness to non-Muslims. However, it would be very shortsighted to say that Muslims never express negative views of kaffirs. There's a strong undercurrent of resentment and simmering hostility towards them in the Muslim community, and it's clearly apparent on the world stage. It may not be the view of the majority of Muslims, but it's there.

True. I do not agree with such resentment and hostility but it does in fact exist. A similar statement could be made about the perversion of Christianity by the Klan into some sort of racial dogma. Few would agree with their beliefs or methods, but none would doubt its continuing presence.

So, Islam is justified by Islam. Fair enough, if you're happy with that reasoning.

'That reasoning' is common of many religions. After all, who'd want to subscribe to a religion they know is false or must be validated by other religions? To validate the commands of God by those of men isn't merely sacrilegious - it's ridiculous

That's a fair view, I suppose. I'm interested in what you mean by true guidance, though. If someone in a tribe in the Amazon rainforest never heard about Islam in his life, it's very lenient not to expect him to have to work out the Islamic truth by hmself. What about if someone told him about Islam but didn't explain it very well? Presumably that wouldn't be true guidance - or would it?

God has sent messengers to every culture around the world. Besides, we are taught that such tribal people will have their own particular trial on Judgement Day, since God is merciful and would not judge them unfairly. Instead of judging them against Muslims, he would judge them in their own particular circumstances.

To a Westerner, that looks like an awful lot, since so many things are haraam. Of course, Muslims must be amazed that so many things are allowed in the West.

Indeed. Though in all fairness, the Arabs before Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) weren't exactly the greatest people alive either.

True, Islam is not, but some Muslims are.

Sad but true. Islam is a perfect religion so long as the people following it don't screw things up.

ummbilal said:
rambo was made in about 79 so i'm guessing you'd call it old, i call black and white films old, that could be coz I am old hehe

Rambo isn't old enough to be considered 'old'. By that logic, Charlie Chaplin's films are ancient.

Besides, some of the best stuff is in black and white. Laurel and Hardy; the Three Stooges. Need I say more?

pious_hijabi · Oct 16, 2005

don't listen to music as much as before, im trying to cut it out but it seems like whether your in a coffee shop or shopping mall the music is playing. As for television, like the majority of the people I don't really watch it but at times after work or school I'll probably watch a lil. May Allah help to cut it off inshallah.

proud muslima · Oct 16, 2005

i dont listen to songs, except anasheed,alhamdullilah,not only because i believe they are haram, it is because the current song are meaningless, nothing really talking about how muslims are today and what to do about it,,, , but sometimes i do, against my will, in the bus for instance and so..

about movies i actually do, but i try my best not to see anything haram like body positions and actions that are haram...

Samee · Oct 16, 2005

I don't even listen to Nasheeds. Why? I think they are pretty worthless. I listened to one and it was all some american song background with "WHEEEEEEEEEEN YOU'REE FEEEEEELINNG ALOOOOOOONEEEE" being sung by some lover lover white guy like those American singers. I was thinking to myself "What the heck?" THIS is what everyone talks about making them feel all good inside and stuff?

The recitation of Quran > Nasheed with the help of 10 Million Points

czgibson · Oct 16, 2005

Hi Muezzin,

You make some good points.

Muezzin said:
You're confusing 'culture' with 'religion'. Islam is a religion encompassing people of many disparate cultures. Whereas culture is a lifestyle influenced solely by the behaviour and attitude of one's countrymen, religion is a way of living that is decreed by God and communicated through man.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think I've confused the two. In any Muslim country, no matter what other culture is present, Islam will be the dominant influence, since the only culture that is permitted is that which does not contravene Islam - this obviously greatly limits the possibilities for cultural influence.

Islam does not forbid curiosity of other cultures. It does however forbid the engaging in of what it considers to be sinful practices, be they in other cultures or one's own native culture.

These two could amount to the same thing, no?

What of Newton, Einstein, Hawking? Some of the greatest scientific minds in our history believe in God. True, Newton died before the late 19th century, but few would argue against the prevalent influence of the latter two. If such great scientific minds believe in God, surely it is erroneous to call spirituality a fantasy, a passing fad.

You're absolutely right - those three were theists. Saying spritituality is a fantasy is my opinion, and it was the opinion of the others I've mentioned. I don't think it would be fair to call it a passing fad, because it hasn't passed yet. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, I can't say. However, the point I was making was an attempt to explain this reduction of the spiritual side that unquestionably happened in the West in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. What's happened since then is another story.

While your list may have renounced religion, it does not make their opinion fact.

Although it is what I believe, I would never make the assertion that it was fact.

Conversely, scientific theists' beliefs are not factual either - what is a fact is that the concept of faith, of some sort of intervention by higher authority than mere humans, is one present in all cultures.

Well, it's true to say that most cultures have at least one deity. Buddhists don't have any, though.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I don't really want to comment on wicca and 'other substitutes for religion' what with the recent Religious Hatred bill just waiting for passage

Good point!

True. I do not agree with such resentment and hostility but it does in fact exist. A similar statement could be made about the perversion of Christianity by the Klan into some sort of racial dogma. Few would agree with their beliefs or methods, but none would doubt its continuing presence.

Absolutely right. The Klan are a very good example to use.

'That reasoning' is common of many religions. After all, who'd want to subscribe to a religion they know is false or must be validated by other religions? To validate the commands of God by those of men isn't merely sacrilegious - it's ridiculous

I'm not saying any religion should justify itself by reference to another, simply that any appeal to any kind of objective truth at all would make any religion more convincing to outsiders.

Sad but true. Islam is a perfect religion so long as the people following it don't screw things up.

As soon as you bring people into the equation, the can of worms is opened...

Rambo isn't old enough to be considered 'old'. By that logic, Charlie Chaplin's films are ancient. Besides, some of the best stuff is in black and white. Laurel and Hardy; the Three Stooges. Need I say more?

Rambo is a nice piece of historical revisionism, courtesy of those kind people in Hollywood. Would anyone know anything about history if it weren't for the movies?

Peace

minaz · Oct 16, 2005

Would anyone know anything about history if it weren't for the movies?

Lol very true, - Hollywood can't live with it can't live without it

do you watch movies and listen to music?

IB Legend

IB Veteran

Maryams Mommy

Jewel of LI

Elite Member

Elite Member

Senior Member

IB Veteran

Account Disabled

Jewel of LI

Account Disabled

Jewel of LI

Account Disabled

Elite Member

Bat-Mod

Active member

New member

Elite Member

Account Disabled

rep points mean nothin

Similar Threads