"Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

[glo]

Interesting article by Leon Moosavi on the integration of Muslims in Britain

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...=FBCNETTXT9038

[Cabdullahi]

The cherry on top, to facilitate full integration, would be if we downed a pint of lager at the pub.

[muslimah bird]

^^^^and also dance with them a night club ,lol.

[Santoku]

Interesting article by Leon Moosavi on the integration of Muslims in Britain

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...=FBCNETTXT9038

P.S Did you read the reply to that glowing endorsement? The other side of the statistics?

"Have you ever considered that mass immigration may have caused a decline in the connection indigenous Britons feel towards their country?

Also, if you wish to use polls, please provide the other side of the story:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ma...-homosexuality
- 0% of British Muslims found homosexuality acceptable.
- 3% found relations outside of marriage morally justifiable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html
- 40% of this poll found Muslims wanting Sharia law in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-values.html
- 75% of young muslims want women to wear the veil (or at least hijab) compared to 19% of adult population.

As I’ve stated though, there are rather more concerning patterns emerging:

1) The extremist views of young Muslims in particular (aged 16-24)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-students.html

These results are from a poll of Muslim students:

– 33% claim that killing is justified if done to protect religion.
– 40 percent support the introduction of sharia for British Muslims.
– 33 percent support a worldwide Islamic caliphate based on sharia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...e-radical.html & http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-values.html

These results are from Muslims polled (16 – 24) for Policy Exchange:
-37 percent of young British Muslims want Sharia law in Britain.
-36 percent of young British Muslims think apostates should be killed.
-13 percent of young British Muslims said they “admired” Al Qaeda.

2) Support or Sympathy with Terrorism & 3) Conspiracy Theories

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/23/uk.religion

-According to a 2006 Pew Survey, only 17% of British Muslims believe that Arabs carried out the September 11th attacks.

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...bout+77/545847

-According to an NOP survey, 2007:
-24 percent of British Muslims deny that the four British Muslim suicide bombers carried out the 7/7 attacks.
-24 percent of British Muslims believe the British government carried out the 7/7 attacks.

http://news.scotsman.com/ViewArticle...icleid=2798950 & http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3244cf90-262...ml&_i_referer=

-According to Channel 4 Polls in August 2006, reported in both the Scotsman and the Financial Times:
-24 per cent agreed or tended to agree that the 7/7 bombings were justified.
-45 per cent think 9/11 was carried out by the US or Israel.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle729974.ece
-16 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Israel.
-7 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Britain.

4)The denial of Islam requiring scrutiny, and the will to suppress free speech and criticism.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

-NOP Channel 4 polling came out with these results:

-33% of Muslims want Sharia Law as implemented in Saudi Arabia.
-28% of muslims agreed they dreamt of Britain becoming an Islamic State.

-78% wanted Danish cartoonist prosecuted.
-68% want prosecutions for insulting Islam.
-62% disagree with the freedom of speech if it insults religious sensibilities.
-50% said British people who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted.

-Between 5-9% say that violence to protect Islam is acceptable.
-Whilst 10-13% found that they “understood” why young muslims might want to become suicide bombers.


Source: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/danpycock/956/what-do-british-muslims-think-of-the-uk/"

Not quite so integrated there,are they?

[Perseveranze]

P.S Did you read the reply to that glowing endorsement? The other side of the statistics?

"Have you ever considered that mass immigration may have caused a decline in the connection indigenous Britons feel towards their country?

You're probably going to get banned for being an idiot. But just thought i'd correct you;

"indigenous"? What?

What's the difference between those who came on boats and those who came by plane, if they're both born in the same country? I believe Scientists say that most Brits are ancestors of Norman/Viking invaders.

Not to mention how the ancestrial goes all the way to Iraq (ain't that ironic) - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...years-ago.html

[Perseveranze]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ma...-homosexuality
- 0% of British Muslims found homosexuality acceptable.
- 3% found relations outside of marriage morally justifiable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html
- 40% of this poll found Muslims wanting Sharia law in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-values.html
- 75% of young muslims want women to wear the veil (or at least hijab) compared to 19% of adult population.

As I’ve stated though, there are rather more concerning patterns emerging:

1) The extremist views of young Muslims in particular (aged 16-24)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-students.html

These results are from a poll of Muslim students:

– 33% claim that killing is justified if done to protect religion.
– 40 percent support the introduction of sharia for British Muslims.
– 33 percent support a worldwide Islamic caliphate based on sharia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...e-radical.html & http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-values.html

These results are from Muslims polled (16 – 24) for Policy Exchange:
-37 percent of young British Muslims want Sharia law in Britain.
-36 percent of young British Muslims think apostates should be killed.
-13 percent of young British Muslims said they “admired” Al Qaeda.

2) Support or Sympathy with Terrorism & 3) Conspiracy Theories

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/23/uk.religion

-According to a 2006 Pew Survey, only 17% of British Muslims believe that Arabs carried out the September 11th attacks.

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...bout+77/545847

-According to an NOP survey, 2007:
-24 percent of British Muslims deny that the four British Muslim suicide bombers carried out the 7/7 attacks.
-24 percent of British Muslims believe the British government carried out the 7/7 attacks.

http://news.scotsman.com/ViewArticle...icleid=2798950 & http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3244cf90-262...ml&_i_referer=

-According to Channel 4 Polls in August 2006, reported in both the Scotsman and the Financial Times:
-24 per cent agreed or tended to agree that the 7/7 bombings were justified.
-45 per cent think 9/11 was carried out by the US or Israel.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle729974.ece
-16 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Israel.
-7 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Britain.

4)The denial of Islam requiring scrutiny, and the will to suppress free speech and criticism.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

-NOP Channel 4 polling came out with these results:

-33% of Muslims want Sharia Law as implemented in Saudi Arabia.
-28% of muslims agreed they dreamt of Britain becoming an Islamic State.

-78% wanted Danish cartoonist prosecuted.
-68% want prosecutions for insulting Islam.
-62% disagree with the freedom of speech if it insults religious sensibilities.
-50% said British people who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted.

-Between 5-9% say that violence to protect Islam is acceptable.
-Whilst 10-13% found that they “understood” why young muslims might want to become suicide bombers.


Source: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/danpycock/956/what-do-british-muslims-think-of-the-uk/"

Not quite so integrated there,are they?

Alhamdulilah for most of these.

[جوري]

You're probably going to get banned for being an idiot.

here here..

[aamirsaab]

P.S Did you read the reply to that glowing endorsement? The other side of the statistics?
....
Not quite so integrated there,are they?

Most of that data is age biased. People at that age tend to be more rebellious, fight the system kind of guys anyway - regardless of their religious affiliation. In fact, I'm pretty sure you could find similar percentages if the poll was taken for non-muslims given it's the exact same thing kids at that age are inclined to think. That's not even going into the fact that a lot of those facts and figures, even if they reflect a more sizeable proportion of muslims in Uk, mean much anyway given that:

A) Not a single muslim party exists to potentially carry out our fulfill any of those opinions (e.g. sharia law or anything to do with changing current laws to be more "suited" for muslims)
B) They are not particularly harmful (linked with above)
C) Most importantly, do not signifiy anything to do with integration or lack thereof (.e.g understanding why young muslims might want to become suicide bombers...which laughably only 13~% even share that view...clutching at straws I think?)

I'll make the issue as clear as it can possibly be: Sharia law punishments cannot be handed down to non-muslims. So in the extremely unlikely of Caliphate being estalblished any time soon, and then allowing Britain to even allow a muslim party to run, and then having said party be elected by a majority of the British public, and then said party somehow discards decades of the established magna carta, overhauls the entire system in such a way that only Shariah Law could work 100% (I'm talking far beyond politics here) ---> non muslims would not be affected. Heck, Muslims wouldn't be affected - only the ones committing crimes, ironically, since their punishments would be much harsher. The ones that are obeying the laws of Islam are the ones who aren't in jail currently, and wouldn't even be affected by a new law system anyway. I bet your head is puzzled: why do so many people want this then? Because, like every teenager who gets a bit of knowledge, they think they're a bad-ass and they say bad-ass things, but they don't have the neccessary life experience to know the difference between bad-ass and dumb-ass, so what actually comes out of their mouths is dumb and childish.

The difference between me and them, is I'm a bad-ass.

[aadil77]

P.S Did you read the reply to that glowing endorsement? The other side of the statistics?

"Have you ever considered that mass immigration may have caused a decline in the connection indigenous Britons feel towards their country?

Also, if you wish to use polls, please provide the other side of the story:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ma...-homosexuality
- 0% of British Muslims found homosexuality acceptable.
- 3% found relations outside of marriage morally justifiable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html
- 40% of this poll found Muslims wanting Sharia law in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-values.html
- 75% of young muslims want women to wear the veil (or at least hijab) compared to 19% of adult population.

As I’ve stated though, there are rather more concerning patterns emerging:

1) The extremist views of young Muslims in particular (aged 16-24)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-students.html

These results are from a poll of Muslim students:

– 33% claim that killing is justified if done to protect religion.
– 40 percent support the introduction of sharia for British Muslims.
– 33 percent support a worldwide Islamic caliphate based on sharia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...e-radical.html & http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-values.html

These results are from Muslims polled (16 – 24) for Policy Exchange:
-37 percent of young British Muslims want Sharia law in Britain.
-36 percent of young British Muslims think apostates should be killed.
-13 percent of young British Muslims said they “admired” Al Qaeda.

2) Support or Sympathy with Terrorism & 3) Conspiracy Theories

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/23/uk.religion

-According to a 2006 Pew Survey, only 17% of British Muslims believe that Arabs carried out the September 11th attacks.

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...bout+77/545847

-According to an NOP survey, 2007:
-24 percent of British Muslims deny that the four British Muslim suicide bombers carried out the 7/7 attacks.
-24 percent of British Muslims believe the British government carried out the 7/7 attacks.

http://news.scotsman.com/ViewArticle...icleid=2798950 & http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3244cf90-262...ml&_i_referer=

-According to Channel 4 Polls in August 2006, reported in both the Scotsman and the Financial Times:
-24 per cent agreed or tended to agree that the 7/7 bombings were justified.
-45 per cent think 9/11 was carried out by the US or Israel.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle729974.ece
-16 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Israel.
-7 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Britain.

4)The denial of Islam requiring scrutiny, and the will to suppress free speech and criticism.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

-NOP Channel 4 polling came out with these results:

-33% of Muslims want Sharia Law as implemented in Saudi Arabia.
-28% of muslims agreed they dreamt of Britain becoming an Islamic State.

-78% wanted Danish cartoonist prosecuted.
-68% want prosecutions for insulting Islam.
-62% disagree with the freedom of speech if it insults religious sensibilities.
-50% said British people who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted.

-Between 5-9% say that violence to protect Islam is acceptable.
-Whilst 10-13% found that they “understood” why young muslims might want to become suicide bombers.


Source: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/danpycock/956/what-do-british-muslims-think-of-the-uk/"

Not quite so integrated there,are they?

Excellent statistics (except for the alqaeda bit), I'm glad many muslims dissapprove of sin

The culture of UK is changing, soon it will be non-muslims integrating into islamic culture

We will uphold to british culture in terms of food, clothing, architecture, sports etc but not anything that goes against our faith

[truthseeker63]

Britain has more Muslims then Christians from what I hear.

[truthseeker63]

Very few British People even go to Church.

[truthseeker63]

Islam 'will be dominant UK religion'

By ROBERT SMITHhttp://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Artic...=76212&Sn=BNEWISLAM will be the most widely practised religion inthe UK by 2020, according to British and Muslimmagazine editor Sarah Joseph.She says mosque attendance is expected to outstripchurch attendance over the next 16 years.Estimates suggest that anywhere between 10,000 and50,000 people a year convert to Islam in the UK, whichis currently home to approximately 1.8 millionMuslims."We are the second largest faith in Britain and willbe the largest practising faith in Britain by 2020 ifyou use church and mosque attendance as a measure,"she told the GDN.http://www.islamawareness.net/Fastest/dominant.html

[glo]

"We are the second largest faith in Britain and will be the largest practising faith in Britain by 2020 ifyou use church and mosque attendance as a measure,"she told the GDN.

That may well be true.

I am just reading a book about having a Christian presence in a multi-faith society.
According to a BBC ICM Survey conducted in 2005, the faith make-up of Britain was then as follows:

Christian: 67%
Muslim: 3%
Jewish: 1%
Hindu: 1%
Sikh: <1%
Other: 4%
No Faith: 22%
refused: 1%
don't know:<1%

But out of those 67% self-declared Christians only 17% attend church services regularly - compared to 58% of Muslims who regularly go to mosque and 47% of Sikhs who regularly attend a gurdwara or temple.

I think one of the problems is that here in the UK religion has become something which is kept private, not publically displayed, demonstrated or even talked about.
Hence it has become something people do 'on their own' and not communally anymore.
It's a shame, because I think much of the Christian teaching is about worshipping and serving God as a community and a group. It's not meant to be private or done in isolation ...

On top of that, people may call themselves Christian for cultural reasons rather than theological ones.

I think it's because of the keep-religion-private-attitude that Muslims are creating ripples. Because here you have a group of people who clearly demonstrate their faith by how they look and dress, and by what they do. Islam is not afraid to make itself seen and noticed!

Perhaps that's a message other faiths (including Christianity) will take courage from and grow more confident again.

[Muhammad]

What is important to note on the topic of integration is that Islam actually encourages values that British people once regarded important, but have been lost in their culture. For example, the upholding of family ties and strong connection with one's family. Islam therefore restores many values that are common and appreciated by all. It is not only about apostates, homosexuality, capital punishment etc. People should be aware of the holistic picture, not misrepresentations by the media.

[tango92]

P.S Did you read the reply to that glowing endorsement? The other side of the statistics?

"Have you ever considered that mass immigration may have caused a decline in the connection indigenous Britons feel towards their country?

Also, if you wish to use polls, please provide the other side of the story:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/ma...-homosexuality
- 0% of British Muslims found homosexuality acceptable.
- 3% found relations outside of marriage morally justifiable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html
- 40% of this poll found Muslims wanting Sharia law in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-values.html
- 75% of young muslims want women to wear the veil (or at least hijab) compared to 19% of adult population.

As I’ve stated though, there are rather more concerning patterns emerging:

1) The extremist views of young Muslims in particular (aged 16-24)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-students.html

These results are from a poll of Muslim students:

– 33% claim that killing is justified if done to protect religion.
– 40 percent support the introduction of sharia for British Muslims.
– 33 percent support a worldwide Islamic caliphate based on sharia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...e-radical.html & http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sh-values.html

These results are from Muslims polled (16 – 24) for Policy Exchange:
-37 percent of young British Muslims want Sharia law in Britain.
-36 percent of young British Muslims think apostates should be killed.
-13 percent of young British Muslims said they “admired” Al Qaeda.

2) Support or Sympathy with Terrorism & 3) Conspiracy Theories

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/23/uk.religion

-According to a 2006 Pew Survey, only 17% of British Muslims believe that Arabs carried out the September 11th attacks.

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...bout+77/545847

-According to an NOP survey, 2007:
-24 percent of British Muslims deny that the four British Muslim suicide bombers carried out the 7/7 attacks.
-24 percent of British Muslims believe the British government carried out the 7/7 attacks.

http://news.scotsman.com/ViewArticle...icleid=2798950 & http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3244cf90-262...ml&_i_referer=

-According to Channel 4 Polls in August 2006, reported in both the Scotsman and the Financial Times:
-24 per cent agreed or tended to agree that the 7/7 bombings were justified.
-45 per cent think 9/11 was carried out by the US or Israel.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle729974.ece
-16 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Israel.
-7 percent of British Muslims support suicide bombing in Britain.

4)The denial of Islam requiring scrutiny, and the will to suppress free speech and criticism.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291

-NOP Channel 4 polling came out with these results:

-33% of Muslims want Sharia Law as implemented in Saudi Arabia.
-28% of muslims agreed they dreamt of Britain becoming an Islamic State.

-78% wanted Danish cartoonist prosecuted.
-68% want prosecutions for insulting Islam.
-62% disagree with the freedom of speech if it insults religious sensibilities.
-50% said British people who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted.

-Between 5-9% say that violence to protect Islam is acceptable.
-Whilst 10-13% found that they “understood” why young muslims might want to become suicide bombers.


Source: http://my.telegraph.co.uk/danielpycock/danpycock/956/what-do-british-muslims-think-of-the-uk/"

Not quite so integrated there,are they?

to be honest your post is pretty much the only good news ive heard about muslims for a long time

Alhumdulillah the Youth of the muslims are starting to come back to islam, i have high hopes for the third generation (our children) too.

[glo]

What is important to note on the topic of integration is that Islam actually encourages values that British people once regarded important, but have been lost in their culture. For example, the upholding of family ties and strong connection with one's family. Islam therefore restores many values that are common and appreciated by all.

Well said. I agree with that.

[M.I.A.]

Well said. I agree with that.

unfortunately british muslims seem to be unable to convey those values to the rest of the public.

like the first few replies show, dawah seems not our strong point. but we make easy scapegoats with so much anger.. obviously.

no change to spare.

[Pygoscelis]

Those stats are a bit alarming. But it does mostly look to youth. But isn't youth supposed to be more progressive and less extreme than older folks?

In the UK:

That many muslims want to kill people who disrespect their religion?
That many want to bar free speech if it mentions their religion?
That many hate homosexuals?
That many wish to overthrow their government and install some muslim theocracy?

If this is true in the UK, then I guess we know where the stereotypes come from. I'm glad I live in an area where muslims are not so much like that at all.

[Qurratul Ayn]

Great Britain is already becoming Halaal (in a way) without even telling the public.

This article is a bit out-dated but thought-provoking, nonetheless...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aughtered.html

It's interesting to see that Asda didn't make a comment on the table (on the website), even though they have their own Halaal Meat Centre in larger branches... Hmmm...

[Muezzin]

P.S Did you read the reply to that glowing endorsement? The other side of the statistics?

"Have you ever considered that mass immigration may have caused a decline in the connection indigenous Britons feel towards their country?

I love it when people try to justify xenophobia. Anyway, the most recent influx of 'mass immigration' into Britain consits mostly of people from Eastern Europe, who tend to be Christian rather than Muslim.

Also, if you wish to use polls, please provide the other side of the story:

[Datasplurge of content meant to encourage a dislike of Muslims and Islam]

Not quite so integrated there,are they?

You don't sound very well integrated in this forum. Would you like some Chill Pills to help you relax? They're really cheap and I accept Reality Checks.

Those stats are a bit alarming. But it does mostly look to youth. But isn't youth supposed to be more progressive and less extreme than older folks?

In the UK:

That many muslims want to kill people who disrespect their religion?
That many want to bar free speech if it mentions their religion?
That many hate homosexuals?
That many wish to overthrow their government and install some muslim theocracy?

If this is true in the UK, then I guess we know where the stereotypes come from. I'm glad I live in an area where muslims are not so much like that at all.

Generally speaking, what people say they believe on a poll does not neccessarily reflect their conduct in daily life.