A Saudi prince has been jailed for life for murdering his servant at a hotel in central London.
The Old Bailey was told the assault by Saud Abdulaziz bin Nasser al Saud had a "sexual element" and he had attacked Mr Abdulaziz many times before.
Al Saud, 34, who had admitted manslaughter but denied murder, was given a minimum jail term of 20 years.
The Saudi prince was also found guilty of causing grievous bodily harm with intent in relation to an earlier attack in a hotel lift, a charge which he had denied.
The murder of Mr Abdulaziz was the final act in a "deeply abusive" master-servant relationship in which Al Saud carried out frequent attacks on his aide "for his own personal gratification".
Dashing' killer
Judge Mr Justice Bean said: "You were in a position of authority and trust over him which you exploited ruthlessly.
"I think the most likely explanation is that you could not care less whether you killed him or not."
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
he caused a death and was given life? sob7an Allah.. what is this world coming to?
I don't understand where people get the heart to torture yet alone murder another human being but in my book a life for a life as prescribed by Allah swt is justice!
the so-called royal family should lead by example!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
the so-called royal family should lead by example!
I concur.
I remember a hadith that basically tells Rasulullah SAW said along the line "By Allah, if Fatima, daughter of Muhammad, were to steal, I would have her hand cut off. " (HR. Bukhari)
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
he caused a death and was given life? sob7an Allah.. what is this world coming to?
It's senses. No country in the EU has the death penalty; we leave that particular barbarism for the likes of China, Burma, North Korea, the USA....
the so-called royal family should lead by example!
I doubt they'll get the chance. The sentence will be served in a British prison; not least because Al Saud is hardly likely to want to move to a Saudi prison in the circumstances.
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
The good news is that he was at least accused and jailed, fortunately. If he was still in KSA, no one probably will hear about the poor servant murder, aal Saud (the ruling family) are above the law.
"O you who believe! Fear ALLAH as He should be feared" [aal 'Imraan, 102]
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
It's senses. No country in the EU has the death penalty; we leave that particular barbarism for the likes of China, Burma, North Korea, the USA....
I doubt they'll get the chance. The sentence will be served in a British prison; not least because Al Saud is hardly likely to want to move to a Saudi prison in the circumstances.
If your son or daughter is tortured, possibly sexually assaulted, and then ruthlessly murdered, God Forbid, we'll see if you keep the same attitude. The killer obviously believes in the death penalty so why in the world should he be exempt from his own policy??
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
It's senses. No country in the EU has the death penalty; we leave that particular barbarism for the likes of China, Burma, North Korea, the USA..
It isn't Barbarism in your mind to inflict death upon a poor blue collar worker and abuse him? but barbarism to deal with the abuser justly in a like manner?
as stated prior I find your moral compass to be questionable to say the least!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
we leave that particular barbarism for the likes of China, Burma, North Korea, the USA
If a dog attacks an innocent bystander, that dog would be put down (No questions asked). If a Human being kills another human being, whats wrong with giving him a taste of his own medicine IE The Death Penalty?
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
should be sent back to saudi to face the death penalty. now that its public, its not something they can put under the carpet easily. Especially since they were involved
Our Lord! Verily, we have heard the call of one calling to Faith: 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed.
Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and expiate from us our evil deeds, and make us die (in the state of righteousness) along with Al-Abrar
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul
If a dog attacks an innocent bystander, that dog would be put down (No questions asked).
Dogs are generally considered less important than people (I'm making no moral comment on that one way or the other). In the case of people, questions usually ARE asked, ultimately in the form of a trial. A trial, being ultimately a human activity is subject to error; many murder convictions are overturned. Bit late if the person has been hung or fried, isn't it?
If a Human being kills another human being, whats wrong with giving him a taste of his own medicine IE The Death Penalty?
I'm amazed that some theists hold such a casual view of the value of human life, and consider themselves worthy of deciding whether another deserves to retain it or not. Isn't every human being supposed to be the property of God? Ultimately, surely, the fate of the murderer is decided by God.. but clearly not through always influencing juries to reach the right decision. After all, what is a "taste of his own medicine" compared with a trip to Hell? There is surely no need to accelerate the process except a need to satisfy bloodlust and revenge and, although people don't like to hear it, that is the only genuine motivation capital punishment has.
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
In the case of people, questions usually ARE asked, ultimately in the form of a trial. A trial, being ultimately a human activity is subject to error; many murder convictions are overturned. Bit late if the person has been hung or fried, isn't it?
Trumble, if this is your reason for not supporting executions, then surely in the case where there is absolute proof (e.g. undeniable video evidence) you should relent?
Also, just curious... were it in your power, what punishment would you personally have inflicted on mass murderers like Hitler?
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Ultimately, surely, the fate of the murderer is decided by God.. but clearly not through always influencing juries to reach the right decision. After all, what is a "taste of his own medicine" compared with a trip to Hell? There is surely no need to accelerate the process except a need to satisfy bloodlust and revenge and,
Well, if the murderer repents before their executions, the death penalty may actually be expiation of their sins, and they may be even be spared of hell, if God decides.
but of course you atheists do not believe this.
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Ultimately, surely, the fate of the murderer is decided by God
The punishment for unjust murder/killing in Islam is death, unless the family of the murdered/killed forgive the killer.
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
here is surely no need to accelerate the process except a need to satisfy bloodlust and revenge and, although people don't like to hear it, that is the only genuine motivation capital punishment has.
Maybe this surprises you, but for muslims, enactment of capital punishments for particular crimes is actually from God.
But of course you do not believe that.
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
Trumble, if this is your reason for not supporting executions, then surely in the case where there is absolute proof (e.g. undeniable video evidence) you should relent?
It's one of my reasons, but by no means the only one. I don't accept that case exists in reality, anyway. Firstly, a case should be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" to obtain a conviction in the first place. 'Absolute' is a mathematical abstraction, but in the real world how does 'absolute' differ from 'beyond reasonable doubt'? I never could understand why people keep giving video evidence as an example of this.. don't they ever go to the movies?! Video can be faked. Scientific tests can be screwed up. Confessions can be forced.
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Well, if the murderer repents before their executions, the death penalty may actually be expiation of their sins, and they may be even be spared of hell, if God decides.
So God decides if the sinner is spared hell, but you get to toss the dice as to whether execution may be sufficient to atone for their sin or not? I could accept that if the murderer freely expressed a genuine wish to be executed for that purpose, perhaps.
But of course you do not believe that.
I believe muslims believe it. I don't, not only because I don't believe there is a God to dispense such instructions but because I think that this one is totally inconsistent with the existence of such a God if He did exist. It's merely a reflection of a particular time and culture long since gone, just as is the OT equivalent. But, of course you don't believe that!
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
So God decides if the sinner is spared hell, but you get to toss the dice as to whether execution may be sufficient to atone for their sin or not?
If my previous post is still not clear to you, let me reiterate:
The capital punishment for unjust murder is from God, we (muslims) do not decide on our own.
But of course you do not believe that, and you do not understand that, despite repeatedly saying so.
I believe muslims believe it. I don't, not only because I don't believe there is a God to dispense such instructions but because I think that this one is totally inconsistent with the existence of such a God if He did exist.
Pardon me, but I find it hilarious that someone who does not believe in the existence of god like you can have such definite expectation of what god should be.
Anyway, an equal and just punishment for crimes fits perfectly with the attribute of God who is just.
It's merely a reflection of a particular time and culture long since gone, just as is the OT equivalent. But, of course you don't believe that!
Pardon me again, but I keep find you hilarious, as an atheist buddhist (as opposed to many buddhists I know who believe in the existence of a creator), you could have such a strong christian view, who regard the OT as a mere relic from the ancient past.
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
It's one of my reasons, but by no means the only one. I don't accept that case exists in reality, anyway. Firstly, a case should be proven "beyond reasonable doubt" to obtain a conviction in the first place. 'Absolute' is a mathematical abstraction, but in the real world how does 'absolute' differ from 'beyond reasonable doubt'? I never could understand why people keep giving video evidence as an example of this.. don't they ever go to the movies?! Video can be faked. Scientific tests can be screwed up. Confessions can be forced.
Okay. How about for absolute, undeniable proof, you have someone who kills another man in front of a crowd of several thousands (e.g. at a football match) and which is broadcast for millions around the world live.
You didn't say what you would have happen to people like Hitler.
Re: Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
they had homosexual relations. But we dont know if the slave was doing it willingly or was being raped.
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
Homosexual Saudi prince jailed for life for murder of servant
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):
Surah Al-A'raf 7:80-81
80. And (remember) Lout (Lot), when he said to his people: "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns)?
81. "Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)." (Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)
Surah ASh Shu'ara 26:165-166
165. "Go you in unto the males of the 'Alamin (mankind),
166. "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your wives? Nay, you are a trespassing people!" (Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)
Surah Hud 11:77-79
77. And when Our Messengers came to Lout (Lot), he was grieved on their account and felt himself straitened for them (lest the town people should approach them to commit sodomy with them). He said: "This is a distressful day."
78. And his people came rushing towards him, and since aforetime they used to commit crimes (sodomy, etc.), he said: "O my people! Here are my daughters (i.e. the daughters of my nation), they are purer for you (if you marry them lawfully). So fear Allah and degrade me not as regards my guests! Is there not among you a single right-minded man?"
79. They said: "Surely you know that we have neither any desire nor in need of your daughters, and indeed you know well what we want!" (Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):
Even as we have provided the clear dalil (evidence) regarding the prohibition against homosexuality the tribalism and need to protect the name of a country and tribe prevails. The endless arguements what type of relationship, etc. There is no honor in defending the homosexual prince no matter what country he originates. This has been occurring in the United States and Britian for years he just got caught.
If someone from my own family committed an act that was haram I would condemn them and not dance around the wrong. Shameful!
Surah Al Imran 3:110 110. You [true believers in Islamic Monotheism, and real followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah (legal ways, etc.)] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained) and forbid Al-Munkar (polytheism, disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden), and you believe in Allah. And had the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) believed, it would have been better for them; among them are some who have faith, but most of them are Al-Fasiqun (disobedient to Allah - and rebellious against Allah's Command). (Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)
Lā ilāha illā-llāhu waḥdahu lā sharīka lahu lahu-l-mulku
Wa lahu-l-hamdu yuḥyi Wa yumītu Wa huwa ḥayyu-llā yamūtu abadan abada
ḏū-l-jalāli wa-l-ikrām, biyadihi-l-khayr
wa huwa ‘alā kulli Shay’in qadīr.
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