Presidential debate on Why do they hate us? 5/20/2007 - Political - Article Ref: IV0705-3288
Number of comments: 3
Opinion Summary: Agree:1 Disagree:0 Neutral:2
By: Patrick J. Buchanan
Iviews* -
But Who Was Right -
Rudy Giuliani or Paul Ron?
A decisive moment of the South Carolina debate.
Hearing Rep. Ron Paul recite the reasons for Arab and Islamic resentment of the United States, including 10 years of bombing and sanctions that brought death to thousands of Iraqis after the Gulf War, Rudy Giuliani broke format and exploded:
"That's really an extraordinary statement, as someone who lived through the attack of 9/11, that we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq. I don't think I have ever heard that before, and I have heard some pretty absurd explanations for Sept. 11.
"I would ask the congressman to withdraw that comment and tell us that he didn't really mean that."
The applause for Rudy's rebuke was thunderous - the soundbite of the night and best moment of Rudy's campaign.
After the debate, on Fox News' "Hannity and Colmes," came one of those delicious moments on live television. As Michael Steele, GOP spokesman, was saying that Paul should probably be cut out of future debates, the running tally of votes by Fox News viewers was showing Ron Paul, with 30 percent, the winner of the debate.
Brother Hannity seemed startled and perplexed by the votes being text-messaged in the thousands to Fox News saying Paul won, Romney was second, Rudy third and McCain far down the track at 4 percent.
When Ron Paul said the 9/11 killers were "over here because we are over there," he was not excusing the mass murderers of 3,000 Americans. He was explaining the roots of hatred out of which the suicide-killers came.
Lest we forget, Osama bin Laden was among the mujahideen whom we, in the Reagan decade, were aiding when they were fighting to expel the Red Army from Afghanistan. We sent them Stinger missiles, Spanish mortars, sniper rifles. And they helped drive the Russians out.
What Ron Paul was addressing was the question of what turned the allies we aided into haters of the United States. Was it the fact that they discovered we have freedom of speech or separation of church and state? Do they hate us because of who we are? Or do they hate us because of what we do?
Osama bin Laden in his declaration of war in the 1990s said it was U.S. troops on the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia, U.S. bombing and sanctions of a crushed Iraqi people, and U.S. support of Israel's persecution of the Palestinians that were the reasons he and his mujahideen were declaring war on us.
Elsewhere, he has mentioned Sykes-Picot, the secret British-French deal that double-crossed the Arabs who had fought for their freedom alongside Lawrence of Arabia and were rewarded with a quarter century of British-French imperial domination and humiliation .
Almost all agree that, horrible as 9/11 was, it was not anarchic terror. It was political terror, done with a political motive and a political objective.
What does Rudy Giuliani think the political motive was for 9/11?
Was it because we are good and they are evil? Is it because they hate our freedom? Is it that simple?
Ron Paul says Osama bin Laden is delighted we invaded Iraq.
Does the man not have a point? The United States is now tied down in a bloody guerrilla war in the Middle East and increasingly hated in Arab and Islamic countries where we were once hugely admired as the first and greatest of the anti-colonial nations. Does anyone think that Osama is unhappy with what is happening to us in Iraq?
Of the 10 candidates on stage in South Carolina, Dr. Paul alone opposed the war. He alone voted against the war. Have not the last five years vindicated him, when two-thirds of the nation now agrees with him that the war was a mistake, and journalists and politicians left and right are babbling in confession, "If I had only known then what I know now ..."
Rudy implied that Ron Paul was unpatriotic to suggest the violence against us out of the Middle East may be in reaction to U.S. policy in the Middle East. Was President Hoover unpatriotic when, the day after Pearl Harbor, he wrote to friends, "You and I know that this continuous putting pins in rattlesnakes finally got this country bitten."
Pearl Harbor came out of the blue, but it also came out of the troubled history of U.S.-Japanese relations going back 40 years. Hitler's attack on Poland was naked aggression. But to understand it, we must understand what was done at Versailles - after the Germans laid down their arms based on Wilson's 14 Points. We do not excuse - but we must understand.
Ron Paul is no TV debater. But up on that stage in Columbia, he was speaking intolerable truths. Understandably, Republicans do not want him back, telling the country how the party blundered into this misbegotten war.
By all means, throw out of the debate the only man who was right from the beginning on Iraq.
Pat Buchanan has been an advisor to three presidents and has thrice sought the office. A founding panelist of four political television shows, he currently hosts MSNBC's daily news program, "Buchanan & Press" and appears on "The McLaughlin Group." He writes a nationally syndicated newspaper column and is the author of six books including the recent bestseller, The Death of the West, which sold over 200,000 copies. In 2002 Pat Buchanan founded The American Conservative with Scott McConnell and Taki Theodoracopulos
Had Giuliani been President I suspect we would be short a few nukes in our inventory.
I don't know why, but I got this nagging feeling that he's very dangerous, and would be worse than dubya.
I thought we hit rock-botom, with dubya. So, why let a little digging stop us? So we Just keep on digging, Just to find someone worse than the decider...
"Pat Buchanan has been an advisor to three presidents and has thrice sought the office....."
And how did those elections turn out? Buchanon has an odd mix populism and isolationism. Fortunately, there aren't enough odd Americans to elect him.
Had he been President on 9-11, there is no way he could have been seen to be placating the perpetrators.
Had Hillary Clinton been President, she would have been obligated to do something.
Had Ghandi been President, he would have been forced to do something.
Had Giuliani been President I suspect we would be short a few nukes in our inventory.
Ron Paul has zero chance of being elected President, but feel free to keep your hope alive.
actually at the moment all polls are always showing ron paul as the winner after each debate and being the most popular etc. the corporate media continue to keep silent on his growing popularity, so there is a very good chance of him being president, and even if he were not to become president, he has established himself as a powerful player who can still make an impact without having the presidency, so the root has been firmly established and it shall grow and then perhaps america will start getting some respect and stop being hated.
actually at the moment all polls are always showing ron paul as the winner after each debate and being the most popular etc. the corporate media continue to keep silent on his growing popularity, so there is a very good chance of him being president, and even if he were not to become president, he has established himself as a powerful player who can still make an impact without having the presidency, so the root has been firmly established and it shall grow and then perhaps america will start getting some respect and stop being hated.
Internet polls are a joke anymore, there are people out there who will vote 1000 times just to make their guy on top
I think MSNBC's poll said it best
"The diminished status of the straw poll gets rid of a chance for Paul to prove that his Internet support could be harnessed on the ground."
Whoever our next president is though, I do hope that he gets our troops out of the middle east.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
I thought we hit rock-botom, with dubya. So, why let a little digging stop us? So we Just keep on digging, Just to find someone worse than the decider...
I would be willing to bet that the next president is a democrat, and it wont take long after he (hopefully not she) gets into office and pulls the troops out of Iraq. The top issue with this presidency will obviously be the war in Iraq and I think that Americans at this point have lost interest in Iraq and helping its people, there is a broad concensus that we should leave these people to themselves (even if it means having to listen to the mindless ramblings of a few extremists claiming "victory")
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
I would be willing to bet that the next president is a democrat, and it wont take long after he (hopefully not she) gets into office and pulls the troops out of Iraq. The top issue with this presidency will obviously be the war in Iraq and I think that Americans at this point have lost interest in Iraq and helping its people, there is a broad concensus that we should leave these people to themselves (even if it means having to listen to the mindless ramblings of a few extremists claiming "victory")
It's looking more and more like the chances of a Democrat victory in the presidential race is fairly slim. Especially if they nominate Hillary. My bet would be on a Rudy victory...or if his personal life becomes too public, then Fred Thompson. Hillary is like the plague down south.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
It's looking more and more like the chances of a Democrat victory in the presidential race is fairly slim. Especially if they nominate Hillary. My bet would be on a Rudy victory...or if his personal life becomes too public, then Fred Thompson. Hillary is like the plague down south.
like the plague????? SHE IS THE PLAGUE!..lol.. I seriously think I would live in another country for four years, as far as Rudy goes, I think he is a little bit too much of a republican, to many people in the US are sick of the war in Iraq and Rudy would (correct me if I am wrong) extend our stay over seas. Although it is still hard to say right now really because we arent seeing any real platforms yet, other than on this forum I wont speak about politics right now (concerning the next president) because it is just to up in the air.. I will say that Ron Paul wont be the republican nomination.. the thought is laughable... the guy is a coward in my opinion
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
Hillary is a women, no one likes a women in charge. Rudy is an extremist, he might go far but no one wants to hear another prowar lunatic take the stand. Bomma is black and no one wants a black running the country. Ever since the creation of the US, the president has alwasy been a white anglo christen and always will be. As for the current choices, it seems the list of people every election year gets dumber and dumber.
Reminds me of the hadith of the prophet (saws). People will say oh this is the worst and it can't get any worst. And it will get worst, and they will say this is the worst and it can't get any worst now, and it will get worst. That is what is going on with not just the world as whole also with presidency candidates. At this rate we'll start electing convicts or KKK members.
Hillary is a women, no one likes a women in charge. Rudy is an extremist, he might go far but no one wants to hear another prowar lunatic take the stand. Bomma is black and no one wants a black running the country. Ever since the creation of the US, the president has alwasy been a white anglo christen and always will be. As for the current choices, it seems the list of people every election year gets dumber and dumber.
Reminds me of the hadith of the prophet (saws). People will say oh this is the worst and it can't get any worst. And it will get worst, and they will say this is the worst and it can't get any worst now, and it will get worst. That is what is going on with not just the world as whole also with presidency candidates. At this rate we'll start electing convicts or KKK members.
I can understand where you are coming from on this, but I have to say I think Americans are going to vote someone in this next election that will make the US look better to a lot of people again
(or at least I hope so)
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
Hillary is a women, no one likes a women in charge. Rudy is an extremist, he might go far but no one wants to hear another prowar lunatic take the stand. Bomma is black and no one wants a black running the country. Ever since the creation of the US, the president has alwasy been a white anglo christen and always will be. As for the current choices, it seems the list of people every election year gets dumber and dumber.
Reminds me of the hadith of the prophet (saws). People will say oh this is the worst and it can't get any worst. And it will get worst, and they will say this is the worst and it can't get any worst now, and it will get worst. That is what is going on with not just the world as whole also with presidency candidates. At this rate we'll start electing convicts or KKK members.
I believe what you just typed would have been correct 50 years ago, but I don't think the U.S. is that concerned about the race or gender of a presidential candidate, at least not to the point of being racist or sexist. Of course there are people who feel that way, but the overwhelming majority of the voting public in the U.S. isn't obsessed with race and sex as they are sometimes made out to be. The reason there hasn't been a black president is because there hasn't been a qualified and personable black candidate. Unless you consider Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, or Alan Keyes as fitting that bill. Obama might have a chance, but I think once the election comes down to platforms and personal decisions, he will be at a disadvantage.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
I can understand where you are coming from on this, but I have to say I think Americans are going to vote someone in this next election that will make the US look better to a lot of people again
(or at least I hope so)
One event can change everything. If there is another terrorist attack on U.S. soil those guys who are "too Republican" start to look really good again.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Hillary is a women, no one likes a women in charge. Rudy is an extremist, he might go far but no one wants to hear another prowar lunatic take the stand. Bomma is black and no one wants a black running the country. Ever since the creation of the US, the president has alwasy been a white anglo christen and always will be. As for the current choices, it seems the list of people every election year gets dumber and dumber.
Reminds me of the hadith of the prophet (saws). People will say oh this is the worst and it can't get any worst. And it will get worst, and they will say this is the worst and it can't get any worst now, and it will get worst. That is what is going on with not just the world as whole also with presidency candidates. At this rate we'll start electing convicts or KKK members.
Kennedy was an Irish Catholic. Doesn't that kind of sink your generalization?
Dukakis was of Greek parents. He didn't lose because his family didn't come over on the Mayflower. He lost because he was an idiot.
The next President is likely to have to deal with Iran decisively early in his or her term. Things may well get worse. When that happens there will be no whining allowed
One event can change everything. If there is another terrorist attack on U.S. soil those guys who are "too Republican" start to look really good again.
Dont get me wrong, I am not speaking for myself, I am speaking in general. It seems that a lot of America has a bit of a problem with republicans right now, I will still vote republican, but judging by the mid term elections, the polls, the media coverage of the democrats, the democrats obvious opposition to the war in Iraq, I think it is pretty safe to say if the democrats dont get president it will be a suprise. To me I dont think the war is over, I just think Iraq is a lost cause anymore, pull our troops out, let the terrorist set up shop and then go back when there is a clear target and blow them to smitherins. The mideast should just hope for no more terrorist attacks
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
I believe what you just typed would have been correct 50 years ago, but I don't think the U.S. is that concerned about the race or gender of a presidential candidate, at least not to the point of being racist or sexist. Of course there are people who feel that way, but the overwhelming majority of the voting public in the U.S. isn't obsessed with race and sex as they are sometimes made out to be. The reason there hasn't been a black president is because there hasn't been a qualified and personable black candidate. Unless you consider Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, or Alan Keyes as fitting that bill. Obama might have a chance, but I think once the election comes down to platforms and personal decisions, he will be at a disadvantage.
I have to agree with this, I dont think the majority of the US really cares about race or gender anymore, if we dont have a black or a woman president this time we will probably in the next 20 years at some point so what is the difference? You just have to look at the two candidate that fit this persona 1) Hilary Clinton (I got nausious again and yaked) 2) Obama - I just dont think he is ready for it yet, maybe in the next election
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
- Bertrand Russell
"He who fears being conquered is sure of defeat." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the
enemy." - George Washington
Nice site, though I don't really know the validity of the polls taken during their presidency. If you trust Washington post then perhaps you may trust this.
Nice site, though I don't really know the validity of the polls taken during their presidency. If you trust Washington post then perhaps you may trust this.
Just to respond to “Why they hate us”. They hate the US because they were taught to hate the US. It appears that this hatred started during the 1967 Arab/Israel war when Egypt blamed their humiliating defeat on the assertion that US and British troops attacked them. After 40 years, there has been no evidence to support this assertion; however, it is taught in schools in the Middle East to this day as fact. New generations are being taught in schools and by their religious leaders to hate the US and Britain.
The hatred for the US and Britain existed long before Bush became president. Had Bush decided not to attack Sadaam’s regime, they would still have hated the US. I do not believe that Bush can do anything to cause the people in the Middle East to stop hating the US and Britain. It is up to their teachers and religious leaders to become more responsible.
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the corporate media continue to keep silent on his growing popularity, so there is a very good chance of him being president, and even if he were not to become president, he has established himself as a powerful player who can still make an impact without having the presidency, so the root has been firmly established and it shall grow and then perhaps america will start getting some respect and stop being hated. 
(I got nausious again and yaked) 2) Obama - I just dont think he is ready for it yet, maybe in the next election
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