Just saw this video and though I'd share it with you. What has the world of Islam come to today. So disappointing. Screaming at the imam? Interrupting the jummah khutba?
I'm split on both sides of the fence here. I mean, the woman who interrupted the Khutba (sermon) has a very valid point... but, her method was very disruptive.
The thing is, with no background into this clip, we just can't make heads or tails of it. For example, there is no way for us to know if she had previously tried to take this issue to the masjids committee. And if she had, what had the committee decided to do about it? If anything? Because if they had decided to just ignore her (sadly, they do this a lot in the UK) then she'd obviously be feeling very let down by the masjid that her family goes to for their salaah...
The fact remains, in the UK, no imam who gives Khutba, speaks about the really important issues which are plaguing Muslims in third world countries that are being oppressed by tyrant rulers. No imam warns the Muslims about the fitna of the times we live in. No imam talks about the fitna of masih ud dajjal. No imam talks about the state of Muslims today... heck, they don't even talk about the Riba issue, and some maulanas even make falsified insurance claims from injury specialists...
I feel like her manner was very rude . She could have let them pray and then asked her question or concern in a calm manner. Raising voice in public is very rude.
One can hear the passion and frustration in her voice.
We feel uneasy hearing her words, not only because she is disrupting a gathering of men, but because what she says is true.
So true, that it stings.
What are we actually doing for muslim brothers and sisters, suffering unbelievable oppression around the globe?
What are our imams doing?
Does our effort stop with duaa?
If only she had been more tactful in her approach.......
I am very close to that masjid and believe me there have been plenty of khutbas delivered regarding Palestine; I have been there to witness them. The mosque committee told that sister to come after the prayer after taking her out of the men's section; she was explained afterwards that the mosque does all what she thinks we weren't doing and was advised not to take that approach again (i.e. what you saw in the video). The sister was quite young, maybe in her early teens; it seemed that she had watched some videos on YouTube of the treatment of Palestinians by the Jews and had been affected by them. She was actually happy that the mosque committee spoke to her because – according to what she said – no other mosque had given her a chance.
This recording is about 5 or 6 months old I believe.
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
I haven't seen the vid. But there's nothing preventing women from speaking up in a mosque, a woman once did the same to Umar ibn khtaab RA. No imam today is his equal:
تخريج قصة المرأة مع عمر - رضي الله عنه -
وفيه : أصابت امرأة وأخطأ عمر
الحمد لله والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله :
الأولى :
رواه أبو يعلى – كما في " تفسير ابن كثير " ( 1 / 468 ) – قال : حدثنا أبو خيثمة حدثنا يعقوب بن إبراهيم حدثنا أبي عن ابن إسحاق حدثني محمد بن عبد الرحمن عن مجالد بن سعيد عن الشعبي عن مسروق قال : ركب عمر بن الخطاب منبر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ثم قال : أيها الناس ما إكثاركم في صداق النساء وقد كان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وأصحابه وإنما الصَّدُقات فيما بينهم أربع مائة درهم فما دون ذلك ، ولو كان الإكثار في ذلك تقوى عند الله أو كرامة لم تسبقوهم إليها فلا أعرفنَّ ما زاد رجل في صداق امرأة على أربع مئة درهم ، قال : ثم نزل فاعترضته امرأة من قريش فقالت : يا أمير المؤمنين نهيتَ النَّاس أن يزيدوا في مهر النساء على أربع مائة درهم ؟ قال : نعم ، فقالت : أما سمعت ما أنزل الله في القرآن ؟ قال : وأي ذلك ؟ فقالت : أما سمعت الله يقول { وآتيتُم إحداهنَّ قنطاراً } الآية ؟ قال : فقال : اللهمَّ غفراً ، كل النَّاس أفقه من عمر ، ثم رجع فركب المنبر ، فقال : أيها الناس إني كنت نهيتكم أن تزيدوا النساء في صدقاتهن على أربع مائة درهم ، فمن شاء أن يعطى من ماله ما أحب . قال أبو يعلى : وأظنه قال : فمن طابت نفسه فليفعل .
قلت : وإسناده ضعيف ، فيه : مجالد بن سعيد ، وقد ضعَّفه يحيى بن سعيد القطان وعبد الرحمن مهدي وأحمد بن حنبل والنسائي والدارقطني وغيرهم .
انظر " التاريخ الكبير " للبخاري ( 8 / 9 ) ، و" الضعفاء والمتروكين " لابن الجوزي ( 3 / 35 ) .
والأثر رواه البيهقي ( 7 / 233 ) لكن بإسقاط " مسروق " بين الشعبي وعمر ، لذا قال عنه البيهقي : هذا منقطع .
فالشعبي – وهو عامر بن شراحيل – وُلد لست سنين مضت من خلافة عمر على المشهور ، كما في " تهذيب الكمال " للمزي ( 14 / 28 ) ، وروايته عن عمر مرسلة كما قال أبو زرعة الرازي وأيده العلائي في " جامع التحصيل " ( ص 204 ) ، وبيَّن المزي في " تهذيب الكمال " ( 14 / 30 ) أنه لم يسمع من عمر .
وأظن أن الوهم فيه من " مجالد " فيكون قد ذكر – مرة – مسروقاً ، ومرة أسقطه .
well now that I have heard her I am loving her alot .. masha'Allah...
I am told indeed by those who attend jum3a that khutbas now a days are nothing short of silly. Instead of discussing the affairs of the ummah, they discuss menses and women dress code and the shiitan that has possessed this woman when they should indeed be arming themselves and defending the ummah so our sisters wouldn't be prostituting themselves in Iraq or made naked at mandatory checks in palestine.. Difficult to uphold the jilbab that is ye big by ye wide when the kaffirs are trying their earnest to strip you of it while the men watch and drivel on nonsense..
ßlµêßêll, as I mentioned I am a regular attendee of that mosque and I have been going there since the past maybe 6 years. The sister forced her way into the men's hall and began to preach in a very childish and ignorant manner, making silly comments and assumptions of the imam and the sermon. It is not just and correct for you, and especially for this sister who gate-crashed her way in, to assume anything of the imams and their sermons until you (and her) sit there and listen to what they preach. نَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأۡمُرُ بِٱلۡعَدۡلِ
What of the sunnah is this sister following by forcing her way into the men's section and interrupting a khutba through a false assumption as her belief? What permanent change was she intending to make by interrupting the khutba and asking this imam – who is a graduate of Madinah university and a memoriser of Qur'an – if he has read the book of Allah? Her actions shouldn't be compared to the woman who stood up to 'Umar because that woman spoke with knowledge, this sister in the video spoke and acted out of sheer ignorance and a false assumption.
If you love her actions then ask yourself what of the sunnah she is doing that you should love for the sake of Allah? What of the wisdom and benefit has she imparted to those who are witness to her actions? Should we all now gate crash khutbas because they don't address the topic of our choice? I don't believe she has achieved anything except interrupting and creating drama at a gathering where men and women congregated to fulfil their duty to Allah, to remember Him and receive admonishment regarding Him.
I'm sorry if my message is strong but I don't believe her actions should be praised at all. She did not attempt to speak to the committee beforehand or try to make a change privately but just decided to gate-crash a khutba. This is far from what should be loved for Allah's sake.
P.S
The ones who should really be applauded are the men/imans of that mosque who have already address the matter that this sister wrongly thought they were neglecting. The mosque even has recordings of these khutbas and they were some of the best I've heard. I'm sure that the other attendees of this mosque would say the same.
Last edited by 'Abd-al Latif; 02-21-2012 at 03:12 AM.
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
ßlµêßêll, as I mentioned I am a regular attendee of that mosque and I have been going there since the past maybe 6 years. The sister forced her way into the men's hall and began to preach in a very childish and ignorant manner, making silly comments and assumptions of the imam and the sermon. It is not just and correct for you, and especially for this sister who gate-crashed her way in, to assume anything of the imams and their sermons until you (and her) sit there and listen to what they preach. نَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأۡمُرُ بِٱلۡعَدۡلِ
What of the sunnah is this sister following by forcing her way into the men's section and interrupting a khutba through a false assumption as her belief? What change was she intending to make by interrupting the khutba and asking the imam – who is a graduate of Madinah university and a memoriser of Qur'an – if he has read the book of Allah? Her actions shouldn't be compared to the woman who stood up to 'Umar because that woman spoke with knowledge, this sister in the video spoke and acted out of sheer ignorance and a false assumption.
If you love her actions then ask yourself what of the sunnah she is doing that you should love for the sake of Allah? What of the wisdom and benefit has she imparted to those who are witness to her actions? Should we all now gate crash khutbas because they don't address the topic of our choice? I don't believe she has achieved anything except creating drama at a gather where men and women congregated to remember Allah.
I'm sorry if my message is strong but I don't believe her actions should be praised. She did not attempt to speak to the committee beforehand or try to make a change privately but just decided to gate-crash a khutba. This is far from what should be loved for Allah's sake.
Respected bro,
first I'll say 'men' section' is a modern invention, & since when is being in any house of God a crash?
secondly in what way has she spoken of ignorance, she merely steered the topic from something ancillary to something quite pressing and indeed khutbas have always been and should always be discussing the most pressing affairs of the ummah... I rather think (and because I attended a few myself) that the topic of J far outweighs the stuff along the lines of 'is your pet psychic' I find it absurd and I find many brothers who have stopped attending jum3a for exactly that reason. It is a big farce where the imam and attendees feel like hypocrites.. because the alternative is their homes are confiscated and they're thrown in jail for 7+ yrs without a charge. But you know that won't change and it will get worst.. what she has done there is highlight that fact of the matter. Fear should be broken especially now!
Everyone has a laundry list of accolades unfortunately very few people actually use those degrees and laurelses to move mountains. The prophet PBUH was an illiterate man.. Does it bother you or anyone here that you follow the guidance of a man who worked for a woman and couldn't read and write? Our self worth shouldn't be so defined by our degrees or who awarded them but if our intentions and actions are in the right place. Believe me when I tell you my B.S/M.S/M.D hasn't taken me very far in the land of kufr and they're content having us as taxi drivers and falafel workers and taking away more of our inalienable rights day by day..
I am sorry if I don't seem to understand the dynamics of that place as well as you, but I recognize a word of truth when I hear it..
I say this with utmost regard to you as my brother, this is my opinion and this is my take of this situation. I am not saying we should all go into mosques ranting but I can feel her angst, and we all should too!
first I'll say 'men' section' is a modern invention, & since when is being in any house of God a crash?
secondly in what way has she spoken of ignorance, she merely steered the topic from something ancillary to something quite pressing and indeed khutbas have always been and should always be discussing the most pressing affairs of the ummah... I rather think (and because I attended a few myself) that the topic of J far outweighs the stuff along the lines of 'is your pet psychic' I find it absurd and I find many brothers who have stopped attending jum3a for exactly that reason. It is a big farce where the imam and attendees feel like hypocrites.. because the alternative is their homes are confiscated and they're thrown in jail for 7+ yrs without a charge. But you know that won't change and it will get worst.. what she has done there is highlight that fact of the matter. Fear should be broken especially now!
Everyone has a laundry list of accolades unfortunately very few people actually use those degrees and laundresses to move mountains. The prophet PBUH was an illiterate man.. Does it bother you or anyone here that you follow the guidance of a man who worked for a woman and couldn't read and write? Our self worth shouldn't be so defined by our degrees or who awarded them but if our intentions and actions are in the right place. Believe me when I tell you my B.S/M.S/M.D hasn't taken me very far in the land of kufr and they're content having us as taxi drivers and falafel workers and taking away more of our inalienable rights day by day..
I am sorry if I don't seem to understand the dynamics of that place as well as you, but I recognize a word of truth when I hear it..
I say this with utmost regard to you as my brother, this is my opinion and this is my take of this situation. I am not saying we should all go into mosques ranting but I can feel her angst, and we all should too!
I never referred to her coming to a mosque as 'gate crashing'; I referred to her manner of rushing in the men's section (at a time where mixing is more forbidden than other times), interrupting the khateeb and speaking over him as though she has something better to say, as gate crashing. What she has done out of ignorance is all of what I just mentioned since the imams there are not neglecting their duty. She could have handed it properly – and that's if mosques are neglectful in the first place – by speaking to the mosque committee and discussing this with them. She did none of this and just decided to act without thinking. Granted that some mosques are neglectful but that still doesn't justify the manner in which she addressed the problem.
What's important for the Muslims as a minority in the west to be able to establish the prayer, establish the religion as much as one is able to and remain united etc etc. Talking about Jihadi topics is going to get mosques and Muslims in the kind of trouble which could result in mosques being closed down and Muslims being forbidden to practise their religion openly (as what can be seen in France). Without having to go into this topic in greater detail, it can be summarised as follows: the knowledgeable men do not ignore this matter but speak about it in private for the benefit of avoiding anything that can limit the practising of Islam by Muslims in the west. Again, this little summery hardly does justice to the reality of it all but it's basically what it is.
While I never disregard in any way or form a Muslim's concern of what happens in Muslim lands, especially in Palestine, I dislike the how many handle it. It's never appropriate to do what this sister did in the manner she did it. If one truly wants to solve this then one needs to be proactive and not reactive.
Don't get me wrong here, I am the last to say that Muslims should remain silent regarding this; but what I am saying is that our responses need to be thought out, proper and at the right time. What I will love for the sake of Allah is the Muslim who makes the change that galvanises the ummah to action, the one who doesn't shout and scream like a headless chicken but leads with knowledge (of the texts), wisdom, calculated steps and one who truly doesn't waver in his efforts and belief that it is time to liberate Palestine. This is the one who will make a change, not what you saw in the video.
Last edited by 'Abd-al Latif; 02-21-2012 at 03:52 AM.
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
respect to the wonderful sister who put the men to shame
Those who attend and maintain the mosques must meet certain conditions and qualifications that are mentioned by Allah in the verse,
"The mosques of Allah shall be visited and maintained by such as believe in Allah and the Last Day,
establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity, and fear none (at all) except Allah.
It is they who are expected to be on true guidance" (al-Taubah 18).
Ibn Al-Jauzi narrated the virtues and merits of Umar bin Al-Khattab (Allah bless him) in the following words:
Umar forbade the people from paying excessive dowries and addressed them saying:
"Don't fix the dowries for women over forty ounces. If ever that is exceeded I shall deposit the excess amount in the public treasury". As he descended from the pulpit, a flat-nosed lady stood up from among the women audience, and said: "It is not within your right". Umar asked: "Why should this not be of my right?"
she replied: "Because Allah has proclaimed:
'even if you had given one of them (wives) a whole treasure for dowry take not the least bit back.
Would you take it by false claim and a manifest sin'". (Al Nisa, 20).
When he heard this, Umar said: "The woman is right and the man (Umar) is wrong.
It seems that all people have deeper insight and wisdom than Umar".
Then he returned to the pulpit and declared:
"O people, I had restricted the giving of more than four hundred dirhams in dowry.
Whosoever of you wishes to give in dowry as much as he likes and finds satisfaction in so doing may do so".
I don't know the background of the Masjid and the previous khutbahs presented, but I could sense the compassion the sister had in speaking up for the oppressed Muslims in Palestine. My opinion is that there is a better time and manner to speak up and to ask the imam if he had read the Book of Allah was more than a bit absurd. We live during a critical time during history and I believe that we should first work on changing what is in our own heart before we start criticizing others for not doing enough to change the world. I am presently reading the book "Dajjal the AntiChrist" and I am shocked at the extent the kafir system and ideology has permeated throughout the Muslim world. What the sister was ranting about is certainly trajic, but the real rot in our society is much deeper than what is apparent.
i think i saw her on the train a couple of weeks ago
she seems very indignant, but i feel it's righteous indignation, InshaAllah she will increase in knowledge and wisdom and become a scholar of this Ummah:
What's obligatory straight after Islam is to pray, not to fight jihad; the context she is referring to is defensives battle when Muslim lands are being invaded. Prayer comes after the shaadah, it is among the five pillars, it will be the first thing to be questioned about in the day of judgement and if the prayer is lost, so is the religion.
Shaykh Abdulazeez ibn Baz (r) said:
We have previously explained on more than one occasion that jihad is fard kafaayah, not fard ‘ayn. All Muslims are enjoined to support their brothers with their selves (i.e., physically, by joining them), or with money, weapons, da'wah and advice. If enough of them go out (to fight), the rest are freed from sin, but if none of them do that then all of them are sinners.
The Muslims in Saudi Arabia, Africa, North Africa and elsewhere are obliged to do their utmost and if there is a jihad in one country, the surrounding countries should hasten to help them, the closest then the next closest. If one or two states, or three or more, manage to fulfil the obligation, then the rest are freed of responsibility. They deserve to be supported, and it is obligatory to help them against their enemies because they are oppressed. Allah has enjoined jihad upon all Muslims and they must fight against the enemies of Allah until their brothers are victorious. If they fail to do that then they are sinners, but if sufficient people undertake to do that, then the rest are absolved of sin."
(Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 7/335)
And Shaykh Ibn 'Uthaymeen said:
Jihad is obligatory and becomes fard ‘ayn if a person is present where fighting is going on. This is the first of the situations in which jihad becomes an individual obligation because Allah says:
"O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve in a battlefield never turn your backs to them.
And whoever turns his back to them on such a day — unless it be a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own), — he indeed has drawn upon himself wrath from Allah. And his abode is Hell, and worst indeed is that destination!"
[al-Anfaal 8:16]
The Prophet () said that running away on the day when the army is advancing is one of the sins that doom a person to Hell. He said: "Avoid the seven sins that doom a person to Hell…" among which he mentioned running away on the day when the army is advancing (agreed upon). But Allah has made exceptions in two cases:
When it is a military manoeuvre, in the sense that he is leaving to bring reinforcements.
When he is going to join another group, when he has been told that there is a group of Muslims elsewhere who are about to be defeated, so he goes to join them in order to strengthen their numbers. This is subject to the condition that there is no risk to the group he is in; if there is a risk to the group that he is in, then it is not permissible for him to go to the other group. In this case (jihad) is an individual obligation upon him (fard ‘ayn) and it is not permissible for him to leave.
The second situation (in which jihad becomes an individual obligation) is when a city is besieged by the enemy. Then he has to fight in defence of the city because when the city is besieged there is no alternative but to defend it, for if the enemy is going to prevent people from leaving the city or entering it, and prevent provisions from reaching it, and other things which are well known, then in this case the people of the city are obliged to fight in order to defend their city.
The third situation is when the leader tells the people to mobilize; the leader (imam) is the highest authority in the state, but he need not necessarily be the leader of all the Muslims, because there has been no leader of all the Muslims (khaleefah) for a long time. The Prophet () said: “Listen and obey, even if you are ruled by an Abyssinian slave.” So if a man becomes a leader, then his word is to be heeded and his commands are to obeyed.
(al-Sharh al-Mumti’, 8/10-12).
She has to be careful that her zeal does not turn to recklessness because she will then cause more harm than good.
Last edited by 'Abd-al Latif; 02-21-2012 at 12:32 PM.
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
I don't know the background of the Masjid and the previous khutbahs presented, but I could sense the compassion the sister had in speaking up for the oppressed Muslims in Palestine. My opinion is that there is a better time and manner to speak up and to ask the imam if he had read the Book of Allah was more than a bit absurd. We live during a critical time during history and I believe that we should first work on changing what is in our own heart before we start criticizing others for not doing enough to change the world. I am presently reading the book "Dajjal the AntiChrist" and I am shocked at the extent the kafir system and ideology has permeated throughout the Muslim world. What the sister was ranting about is certainly trajic, but the real rot in our society is much deeper than what is apparent.
Excellent book. And yes, I agree with this post totally...
With regard to the sister in question though, I must say that she was very passionate. And a little accusatory. Maybe she is trying to change the condition in her heart... Just made an bad judgement call is what I think.
Being British born, I love a good rant too... I blame too much Eastenders (facepalm ) NO, I don't watch it anymore (double facepalm)
Scimi
Well obviously I'm not British born, but seeing a good rant reminds me of when I was the Angry White Guy and takes me back to my own glory days as a Champion Ranter.
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. She could have let them pray and then asked her question or concern in a calm manner. Raising voice in public is very rude.
) said that running away on the day when the army is advancing is one of the sins that doom a person to Hell. He said: "Avoid the seven sins that doom a person to Hell…" among which he mentioned running away on the day when the army is advancing (agreed upon). But Allah has made exceptions in two cases:
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