What kind of attitude of this? -Bashing Islam is a dangerous sign

[Humbler_359]

I demand Christians members here to confess their hatred against Islam, I want to know what's going on inside the taught of "Dove World" Church and its extremists. What kind of these attitude toward Islam? DO they really love neighbors ?


That's an unfair generalization and entirely hypocritical. Please be Grow up and learn more about real true Islam.

Bashing Islam is a dangerous sign

The school year started off with an unpleasant bang in Gainesville, Fla., when a fifth-grader showed up on the first day wearing a T-shirt with "Islam is of the Devil" inscribed on the back.

Administrators sent the 10-year-old home to change clothes. But the next day several other students at two high schools and a middle school arrived wearing the same message. All were told to cover it up or go home.

The local church responsible for the T-shirt, Dove World Outreach Center, is unapologetic about the school campaign. Church members had already erected a sign on church property proclaiming "Islam is of the Devil" to passersby. According to the pastor, the church has a Christian duty to expose Islam as a "violent and oppressive religion." (Btw, what did your priests and pastors says about Islam in your Church today?)

Missing no opportunity to drive the message home, Dove World marked the 8th anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks with a rally to whip up outrage - not at what some extremists did in the name of Islam, but at Islam itself.

Under the First Amendment, Dove World has the right to proclaim its beliefs about Islam, no matter how much it offends others. But the kids in the congregation may have to wait until after school to put on the T-shirts.

Students do have some free-speech rights in schools. But the Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld the authority of school officials to draw the line at student speech that they can reasonably forecast will cause a substantial disruption. It's very likely that the Dove World T-shirt crosses that line, especially since Muslim students attend Gainesville schools.

Beyond the constitutional issues, however, the controversy points to the larger, more difficult question of how we engage one another in a public square that is increasingly poisoned by hatred and division. Dove World's anti-Islam initiative is not unique. Post-9/11, a growing number of churches inspired by some evangelical leaders such as Ron Paisley and Pat Robertson have condemned Islam in harsh terms. As Robertson puts it, terrorists don't distort Islam - they are "carrying out Islam."

Apart from the fact that these ugly generalizations are distortions of Islamic teachings and wildly misrepresent the views of the vast majority of the world's 1 billion Muslims, Islam-bashing on this scale threatens American Muslims and undermines the common good.

It's impossible to measure the effect of anti-Islam rhetoric on those who take it to the next level and commit acts of violence. But we do know that attacks targeting Muslim Americans are a significant problem across the country. Last month, for example, a Philadelphia business owned by Muslim Palestinian-Americans was ransacked and covered with angry graffiti telling the owners to "go home." And in Smithtown, N.Y., a man was arrested for threatening to kill a Muslim mother and her daughter and trying to run them down with his car. Both incidents are being investigated as hate crimes.

Most Americans recognize the problem. According to a recent survey by the Pew Research Center, nearly six in 10 adults say U.S. Muslims are subject to more discrimination than any other major religious group.

Back in Gainesville, some local residents living near Dove World are countering the anti-Islam message by speaking up for their Muslim neighbors and fellow citizens. Soon after the first sign went up in July, an interfaith group of Christians, Jews and others gathered in front of the church to protest intolerance and call for mutual respect.

On a national level, many Christian and Jewish leaders - including some leading evangelical ministers - have reached out to Muslims by calling for peaceful coexistence and mutual understanding. In fact, Southern Baptist Pastor Rick Warren delivered a message of reconciliation between Christians and Muslims to the annual convention of the Islamic Society of North America in July, around the time Dove World was erecting its sign.

"You know as an evangelical pastor, my deepest faith is in Jesus Christ," Warren told a crowd of some 8,000 Muslim Americans. "But you also need to know that I am committed not just to what I call the good news, but I am committed to the common good."

Warren then defined what Americans share across our differences: "America is a country not built on race, not built on a creed, but built on an idea - liberty and justice for all."

Source


As I (Humbler_359) said earlier, Keep in mind, the racism was happened many times throughout history, yesterday it was talked about black people, today it is talk about Muslims, and tomorrow will be rise of China and its people....

[ardianto]

I demand Christians members here to confess their hatred against Islam, I want to know what's going on inside the taught of "Dove World" Church and its extremists. What kind of these attitude toward Islam? DO they really love neighbors ?

You can demand Dove World Church and its extremist explain their stupid action. But you cannot accuse Christian members here hate Islam. Christian in this forum are not people who worn those T-shirts.

Just imagine, what do you feel if a Muslims in other place mocks Christian religion, and Christian near you ask your responsibility ?.

Not every Christian hates Muslim, not every Muslim hates Christian.

[Humbler_359]

brother,

Yes you are correct... We have to condemn this irresponsible behaviors as well as some irresponsible Muslims extremists. However, I see some of christian members here trying to twist Islam and try to deceive us..... They make us to think Islam wrong religion and don't give up their arguments. Have you read in comparative religion thread?

Wasalaam!





Is this true?

Source

[Asiyah3]

I agree with ardianto.

Anyway, those people's attitude is very evil, malicious and mean. I kinda laughed at this:

""America is a country not built on race, not built on a creed, but built on an idea - liberty and justice for all."

Actions tell me more than words

[Pygoscelis]

Isn't "Islam is of the Devil" normal christian dogma? Doesn't the bible say that only the Christian God is true and isn't the first commandment "thou shalt have no gods before me". And doesn't christianity then go on to claim that the only way to God is through Jesus? Seems to me that this sign isn't saying anything the least bit unchristian and I see nothing wrong with calling christianity and christians on it.

On the same note, doesn't Islam claim that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his prophet? And wouldn't anybody trying to fight against Islam or lead people to some other religion be seen as an agent of Shaytan (or however your muslims spell it)?

I see the above because as an atheist I have frequently been told since I was a child that I was an agent of evil or a follower of Satan simply for not following Christianity. Monotheism is inherently exclusive and leads to the kind of tribalism and ingroup/outgroup hate that you sense in the photos you posted.

[alcurad]

^all 'groups' are by definition exclusive..

depends on how that exclusiveness is expressed, otherwise humans are always tribal if given the chance.

[GuestFellow]

I'm pretty sure I already posted here...or is it me?

Not all Christians hate Islam. Yes Christians and Muslims disagree on some things but that doesn't mean they hate us or Islam. The Christians on this forum don't hate us at all.

LOL those pictures are funny...



These ones.

[Danah]

This is really funny!
Didn't those people learned from the many lessons they already had?

The more they show hatred to Islam the more attention they draw to Islam!!! and the result is tons of people becoming Muslims !!
SubhanaAllah!! What a great religion is this, the more hatred shown by those extremists, the more popularity this amazing religion become.

[Woodrow]

While I disagree with Christianity, I do not believe the members of "Dove World" represent Christianity.

I disagree with the members of "Dove World" because they are prejudiced bigots and it makes no difference what belief they claim to follow.

They represent "Dove World" not any established religion.

[gang4]

I wouldn't be surprised the 'Dove World' has some sort of financial problems. To them, 'Bashing-Islam' is a good advertising strategy to promote themselves.

They even refused to bear the cost... a cheap sign for a cheap shot yet it is quite effective getting TV coverage and all... They sold out against their own scripture (to be good to your neighbor etc) for a small price....

[syilla]

there are so many kind of people...and so many kinds of hatred...and especially you can see it in the internet....

and i hate to accidently bump into one of those weird website *uwaaaaaaaaaaaa....... (sorry... i still feeling sick of remembering those websites)

[titus]

Disagreement does not equal hatred.

"Dove World" does not equal Christianity.

Read the last four or five paragraphs if you want the most common Christian attitude about groups like this.

[glo]

I posted in this thread before, but the post was zapped when the forum crashed recently.

I agree with Woodrow and titus.
This church certainly does not represent my personal views, nor do I know any other Christians who would agree with them.
It simply does not represent mainstream Christianity.

I am heartened by the Christians who participated in the counter-demonstrations, and those who spoke out against the views expressed by Dove World church.

For every act of hatred, there should be an act of love and reconciliation.
We must never give up the struggle for peace and understanding - however tough it might seem at times ...

Salaam

[AbdullahSyed]

Isn't "Islam is of the Devil" normal christian dogma? Doesn't the bible say that only the Christian God is true and isn't the first commandment "thou shalt have no gods before me". And doesn't christianity then go on to claim that the only way to God is through Jesus? Seems to me that this sign isn't saying anything the least bit unchristian and I see nothing wrong with calling christianity and christians on it.

On the same note, doesn't Islam claim that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his prophet? And wouldn't anybody trying to fight against Islam or lead people to some other religion be seen as an agent of Shaytan (or however your muslims spell it)?

I see the above because as an atheist I have frequently been told since I was a child that I was an agent of evil or a follower of Satan simply for not following Christianity. Monotheism is inherently exclusive and leads to the kind of tribalism and ingroup/outgroup hate that you sense in the photos you posted.

You seem to be the only one "Telling it like it is" on this Thread.

[glo]

Isn't "Islam is of the Devil" normal christian dogma? Doesn't the bible say that only the Christian God is true and isn't the first commandment "thou shalt have no gods before me". And doesn't christianity then go on to claim that the only way to God is through Jesus? Seems to me that this sign isn't saying anything the least bit unchristian and I see nothing wrong with calling christianity and christians on it.

On the same note, doesn't Islam claim that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his prophet? And wouldn't anybody trying to fight against Islam or lead people to some other religion be seen as an agent of Shaytan (or however your muslims spell it)?

You are not wrong.

As a Christian I believe that Islam is not the true path. We may have many similarities and common goals, but according to MY religion at least in certain aspects Muslims are misinformed at best and deceived at worst.

Most Muslim probably think similarly about me and my faith, and many have said so. Those areas in which Christianity corresponds with Islam are true - the rest is false, corrupted or simply fabricated.

Many atheists have similar views about believers and feel that those who believe in God(s) are deluded and misinformed.

The issue isn't so much what we believe about each other - we all have out own thoughts and beliefs, depending on our own circumstances, our upbringing, our personal beliefs etc.
What matters more is how we interact with each other and how we treat each other.

Describing people as being 'of the devil' doesn't exactly do much to show love and friendship to our neighbours.

Having said that, I have wondered about the picture of the young Muslim lad, holding a sign saying 'I am a Muslim. Please don't HATE me.'
I haven't read too much about Dove World Church (and perhaps I should read some more), but I haven't seen anywhere that they are calling people to hate Muslims. Instead rather they speak against Islam as a religion.

Do you think there is a difference?
Can you not dislike Christianity, but be friendly with those who follow it?
Can you not believe Islam to be wrong, but still call Muslims your friends?
Can you not disagree with atheism as a worldview, but still socialize with atheists?

[The_Prince]

You are not wrong.

As a Christian I believe that Islam is not the true path. We may have many similarities and common goals, but according to MY religion at least in certain aspects Muslims are misinformed at best and deceived at worst.

Most Muslim probably think similarly about me and my faith, and many have said so. Those areas in which Christianity corresponds with Islam are true - the rest is false, corrupted or simply fabricated.

Many atheists have similar views about believers and feel that those who believe in God(s) are deluded and misinformed.

The issue isn't so much what we believe about each other - we all have out own thoughts and beliefs, depending on our own circumstances, our upbringing, our personal beliefs etc.
What matters more is how we interact with each other and how we treat each other.

Describing people as being 'of the devil' doesn't exactly do much to show love and friendship to our neighbours.

Having said that, I have wondered about the picture of the young Muslim lad, holding a sign saying 'I am a Muslim. Please don't HATE me.'
I haven't read too much about Dove World Church (and perhaps I should read some more), but I haven't seen anywhere that they are calling people to hate Muslims. Instead rather they speak against Islam as a religion.

Do you think there is a difference?
Can you not dislike Christianity, but be friendly with those who follow it?
Can you not believe Islam to be wrong, but still call Muslims your friends?
Can you not disagree with atheism as a worldview, but still socialize with atheists?

no you cant, any fool that comes up to me saying Islam is of the devillllllllllllll and you worship a pedophile bla bla cant be my friend. hes my number 1 enemy.

furthermore if Islam is of the devil, and im a follower of Islam, then that means im a devil worshiper! so the supposed attack on my 'belief' is also an attack on me.

Christians have been getting away with lots of hate messages and hate provocation by playing this game of oooooooooo were just attacking your beliefs, not the person, we love you!!!!!!!! thats complete BS, i have run across so many of these Christians and the second u start arguing back they start calling you a muzzie, rag head, devil worshiper etc etc etc.

lastly, theres a difference between disagreeing with somebody and going out there by completly insulting the persons belief, having a sign saying Islam is of the devil is not how you go about disagreeing with someone and having a nice convo and then going out over a cup of tea!

[glo]

furthermore if Islam is of the devil, and im a follower of Islam, then that means im a devil worshiper! so the supposed attack on my 'belief' is also an attack on me.

I wouldn't agree with that.
The statement that 'Islam is of the devil' suggests to me a belief that Muhammed may have been deceived by Satan - but not that all Muslims worship the devil.

lastly, theres a difference between disagreeing with somebody and going out there by completly insulting the persons belief, having a sign saying Islam is of the devil is not how you go about disagreeing with someone and having a nice convo and then going out over a cup of tea!

I agree that the statement made by this church is entirely unhelpful in building relationships and healthy communities.
Like I said in my previous post: "Describing people as being 'of the devil' doesn't exactly do much to show love and friendship to our neighbours."

Christians have been getting away with lots of hate messages and hate provocation by playing this game of oooooooooo were just attacking your beliefs, not the person, we love you!!!!!!!! thats complete BS, i have run across so many of these Christians and the second u start arguing back they start calling you a muzzie, rag head, devil worshiper etc etc etc.

I am sorry that that has been your experience.

[Pygoscelis]

no you cant, any fool that comes up to me saying Islam is of the devillllllllllllll and you worship a pedophile bla bla cant be my friend. hes my number 1 enemy.

As an atheist I'm used to hearing this sort of thing, its right in the Bible. You don't need to have a nasty agenda as a christian or twist or make anything up to say such things about atheists or muslims. I posted in this thread as a counterpoint to all the people trying to soften the message earlier in the thread. What the church said is not in the least bit un-christian. It is directly in the spirit of the bible. We, the non-christians are to be eternally punished in hellfire for not holding the Christian god as the only God and for not accepting Jesus as our only path to God. You can't soften that message without hiding what the religion is truly about.

And don't try to pretend Islam is a whole lot different in this regard. As an atheist I can see both sides of this coin.

I do agree with the point Glo made however, the sign does not say to hate muslims. It is just a warning not to become one, on a church bulletin board in a christian area (aimed more at christians than the muslims who happen to see it). Its like the threat of hell, more designed to keep believers than to attract new ones.

[ardianto]

Enemy : Muslim is devil worshiper.

Muslim : Who said I'm worshiping you ?.

[Rabi Mansur]

People fear what they don't understand. I live in the Northwest of the USA. Most people I know do not understand the basic tenets of Islam at all. They think you are all terrorists or terrorist sympathizers and they cannot understand how anyone could be Muslim. They believe Israel is always 100% right and the Palestinians are 100% wrong and are either terrorists or terrorist sympathizers. I believe that if the Christians I know actually knew more Muslims a lot of the problem would go away.

I know people who are atheists and others who are agnostics. They are good, ethical people. But many of the religious people I know don't understand them and think they must be tools of the devil.

Most of the posts I have read on this forum are very good, and in general I think most people here are very good people and very tolerant, trying to do the will of God. But i have also read some hate come from Muslims that has really surprised me and sickened me at times.

Sometimes I have to wonder if religion does more harm than good. If all sides would just take the time to understand each other a lot of the bashing would go away. It seems that religion can really pull people apart.

Just a few observations.