I recently read an article in my local newspaper about sexual harassment problems in Egypt. Apparently the following poster was developed in an effort to fight the problem:
The text reads: "You won't be able to stop them (i.e. guys), but you can protect yourself. He who created you knows what's best for you!"
53% of Egyptian men blame women for 'bringing it on'
I just thought this was a nice indication on how values differ on this in the West and the Muslim world on this. The idea that women need to cover up because men are supposedly beasts has always amazed me, it simply does not compute in my mind. If some men can't control their urges because they see women, then surely it is those men that should be dealt with?
I sometimes wonder if the whole Islamic approach isn't counter-productive. Sexual stimulation is all relative after all. If you are in Iran a woman without a hijab will be a cause for outrage and shock. In the West being topless does the same. And in a nudist camp people aren't bothered or aroused by any of it seemingly. By turning so much into a taboo, you appear to be making it so much easier to be 'provoked'.
On the other hand, I suppose its all rather hypocritical, since its not Egypt that has problems with teen pregnancies I suppose . Just thought it was interesting!
Thing with statistics and numbers is that they can mean whatever you want them to mean. An Egyptian girl shared her comments on such reports and the reality of the situation. The majority are not like that, not men harassing nor women being harassed. It is the minority that are being highlighted in such reports to show it a "major issue". And in the monitory, you have such liberals who dress like *****s, much like you see in the west, and then you have such men who will either behave (like the west) as a response or do it more of a way to make those liberal girls think twice about coming walking in the streets dressed as ***** looking in this thing of the west they call "fashion".
(This is does not mean all western women dress that way, there are those who dress appropriate as well).
On a serious note....
Islam has ordained a level of modesty for both men and women that must be adhered to. It is a command of God and it is the duty of the servant to obey. It's amusing and yet sad to see west being so anti-hijab and yet show respect to their nuns only that which Islam gives to all women. When a women covers up modestly then there is not much for men to see to be 'aroused' or be tempted or get any inappropriate thoughts. Even then there are some twisted demented ppl get aroused seeing someone's hijab fall or their body shape shown somewhat do to wind direction. These are depraved individuals who apparently should've married in their teen years. Such individual's existin all society. This regardless of it being east, west or nudist colony. There will always be some lunatics who will still find something to get their cheap excitement out of.
Last edited by islamirama; 08-18-2008 at 04:51 AM.
You can't extrapolate your argument to apply to the whole Islamic world based on stats from only ONE Muslim country!!!
The article you referenced to said:
The British foreign office says Egypt is one of the countries with the highest number of cases reported to embassy staff regarding sexual offences against visiting women.
So Egypt is the worst, and somehow you can extrapolate that to all Muslim countries? Just because Egypt has a majority Muslim population?
Egyptian statistics speak only for Egypt, not for the rest of the Muslim world.
My friends who were studying in Egypt said to me that many Malaysian male students have to find some medication to make their beard grows (genetically and biologically most Eastern Asian guys dont have beards) as many cute beardless Malaysian male students were sexually harrased by Egyptian men.
You can't extrapolate your argument to apply to the whole Islamic world based on stats from only ONE Muslim country!!!
The artcile you referenced to said:
So Egypt is the worst, and somehow you can extrapolate that to all Muslim countries? Just because Egypt has a majority Muslim population?
Egyptian statistics speak only for Egypt, not for the rest of the Muslim world.
Absolutely! It wasn't my intention to generalize on the supposed Egyptian problem, it wasn't about the statistics to me. It was about the 'Islamic' approach to dealing with the problem, which in my opinion seemed a lot like blaming the victim.
people forget that egyption tv is filled with naked women, porn, etc etc so offcourse this makes the men beasts! it has nothing to do with Islam being counter-productive. Islam gets rid of ALL TEMPTATIONS, so this would include getting rid of all the temptations on TV, internet, then also apply this on a street level with hijabs etc. offcourse men will be pervs and harass women who wear hijab if these same men have seen none stop naked women on tv!
people forget that egyption tv is filled with naked women, porn, etc etc so offcourse this makes the men beasts! it has nothing to do with Islam being counter-productive. Islam gets rid of ALL TEMPTATIONS, so this would include getting rid of all the temptations on TV, internet, then also apply this on a street level with hijabs etc. offcourse men will be pervs and harass women who wear hijab if these same men have seen none stop naked women on tv!
What if I had a cloth fetish? I'd be tempted everytime I saw a hijab even more so for a Niqab. What if I had a fetish where only women that wear this garb arouses me? Wouldn't that be temptation too? What about men? What if I'm homosexual? Should men be covered from head to toe also?
Kufr and shirk are the greatest temptation, so until that disease isn't cured, this is less important.
You guys should study Islam, not BBC. I don't think that anyone ever said that the hijab is the only cure for immorality in a society. That is only one of the ways, the cure is being aware of Allah all the time.
In times of difficulties don't ever say, "Allah, I have a big problem!", say "Hey problem, I have a big Allah!"
I like the lollipop explanation Yesterday walking with my dogs i was amused by how were aranged the blankets on the small sand from the river side: 1 topless woman - one meter away 1 man- another 1 meter distance another topless woman - less then 1 meter another man - and after that followed 2 classical swim suits women without any men between them.
So the dress plays an important role for mens. Not to mention few summers ago the men students from an univeristy asked for another session of exams because in the ordinary session they could not concentrate because of the women colleagues which were dressed like for summer.
What if I had a cloth fetish? I'd be tempted everytime I saw a hijab even more so for a Niqab. What if I had a fetish where only women that wear this garb arouses me? Wouldn't that be temptation too? What about men? What if I'm homosexual? Should men be covered from head to toe also?
straw man Q's, these men arent harrasing these hijabis because of a cloth fetish, so ENOUGHHHHHHHHHHH WITH THE NONSENSE QUESTIONS!
they harass because of what they see on TV, dancers, porn, etc etc.
if your homosexual u keep it to yourself because if im not gay and you come touching me your not going to be happy a few mins later. and no men shouldnt cover up because of homosexuals, should we stay home because of murderors? no, homosexuality is a disease we dont need to fix ourselves, the gay man needs to fix himself.
either way, BACK TO THE POINT, they do this because of what they see on tv, internet etc, thats why.
I like the lollipop explanation Yesterday walking with my dogs i was amused by how were aranged the blankets on the small sand from the river side: 1 topless woman - one meter away 1 man- another 1 meter distance another topless woman - less then 1 meter another man - and after that followed 2 classical swim suits women without any men between them.
So the dress plays an important role for mens. Not to mention few summers ago the men students from an univeristy asked for another session of exams because in the ordinary session they could not concentrate because of the women colleagues which were dressed like for summer.
Maybe so, but like I said, nudity is relative. If there are no topless women the women with classical swim suits become an object of interest/outrage. And if there are no women in classical swim suits those with regular clothes are looked at.
I am not at all convinced it is seeing "flesh" that turns some men into predators. As the article I linked to says:
The findings contradict the widely held belief in Egypt that unveiled women are more likely to suffer harassment than veiled ones. ... [I]n reality the study concluded the majority of the victims of harassment were modestly dressed women wearing Islamic headscarves. ECWR head Nihad Abu El-Qoumsan said that even veiled women who were victims of harassment blamed themselves.
You shouldn't demand women to protect themselves by covering themselves, you should act on the dominant male culture which seemingly condones harassment.
You shouldn't demand women to protect themselves by covering themselves, you should act on the dominant male culture which seemingly condones harassment.
Hello,
You can't find a place in Qur'an, Sunnah and quotes from the scholars where it's said that it's all women's fault. Even if a naked women would stay in front of a Muslim, he'd have to close his eyes and say: "Ya ukhtee, do you think that's something what pleases your Lord? Or do you think when Malak al-Mawt comes to you, he'll leave you alone when you take of your clothes?" and not: "Hey, I want to look where I want to look, so put that hijab on, as I'm not going to make the effort to close my eyes!"
And by the way: hijab is a way of behaviour, not only a piece of clothe.
In times of difficulties don't ever say, "Allah, I have a big problem!", say "Hey problem, I have a big Allah!"
people forget that egyption tv is filled with naked women, porn, etc etc so offcourse this makes the men beasts! it has nothing to do with Islam being counter-productive. Islam gets rid of ALL TEMPTATIONS, so this would include getting rid of all the temptations on TV, internet, then also apply this on a street level with hijabs etc. offcourse men will be pervs and harass women who wear hijab if these same men have seen none stop naked women on tv!
I have read few weeks ago that Saudis invested much money in egyptian tv and cinema and they quietly demanded more purity in egyptian movies and shows.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
You shouldn't demand women to protect themselves by covering themselves, you should act on the dominant male culture which seemingly condones harassment.
No, women should cover them selves and men should be taught to leave women alone, no matter what they are wearing. Hijab isn't only about preventing abuse, it's about repelling perverts as well, unwanted flirting and attention etc.
format_quote Originally Posted by Izyan
What if I had a cloth fetish? I'd be tempted everytime I saw a hijab even more so for a Niqab.
You'd be tempted by any clothes, not only the head scarf. So unless your suggesting that all men and women walk around naked, that argument is pointless.
What if I had a fetish where only women that wear this garb arouses me? Wouldn't that be temptation too?
We aren't going to ditch the head scarf just because of one odd person in a million (or billion)!
I recently read an article in my local newspaper about sexual harassment problems in Egypt. Apparently the following poster was developed in an effort to fight the problem:
The text reads: "You won't be able to stop them (i.e. guys), but you can protect yourself. He who created you knows what's best for you!"
I just thought this was a nice indication on how values differ on this in the West and the Muslim world on this. The idea that women need to cover up because men are supposedly beasts has always amazed me, it simply does not compute in my mind. If some men can't control their urges because they see women, then surely it is those men that should be dealt with?
I sometimes wonder if the whole Islamic approach isn't counter-productive. Sexual stimulation is all relative after all. If you are in Iran a woman without a hijab will be a cause for outrage and shock. In the West being topless does the same. And in a nudist camp people aren't bothered or aroused by any of it seemingly. By turning so much into a taboo, you appear to be making it so much easier to be 'provoked'.
On the other hand, I suppose its all rather hypocritical, since its not Egypt that has problems with teen pregnancies I suppose . Just thought it was interesting!
This guys must be joking did you know that the british people are the worst tourists ever! i am not the one saying this,it is official now.
I am british myself and i am ashamed at these behaviours
"They are the rudest, meanest, worst-behaved, most linguistically incompetent''(bbc 2002)
A report released today suggests that the reputation of British tourists has barely improved in the last five years( travel uk msn 2008)
something needs to be done its stupendous of you to look amazed at what steps egypt is taking in order to control the haressement issues we british people are doing nothing,whatever sadistic things we do here in england we take it abroad leaving the locals abroad horrified.
I dont know,its just that we have this image in our brains that we see ourselves as civilized human beings but if we were our 1,368 Brits would have not got arrested in america and the 16 to 30 year olds wouldnt go there for binge drinking and casual sex, like i said this is not my opinion this is fact
You say sex in egypt is a big taboo but in england they have used it in each and everyway from boosting business profits to an everyday indecent leisure
if the taboo is to be stopped then you shouldnt go around destroying the true meaning of love and sex(to be done behind closed doors by husband and wife fullSTOP!) by printing images of women in cereal boxes,billboards,newspapers even on buses that is not the way! and then we scratch our heads and say why are we so lustful and crazy like this,well if the foundation is not built properly then we will crumble and there is no time to be looking at others laughing and saying '' what they are doing is irrational' while it is very evident that the joke is on us.
if there was any nation that was in deep deep **** it would be us,
Last edited by Cabdullahi; 08-18-2008 at 10:43 PM.
Harrasment of women is wide spread in the Arab world. Also, this issue is over looked by the government. Just go on youtube and type Saudi Arabia you will see so many videos of saudi men harrasing women completely covered up.
I have read few weeks ago that Saudis invested much money in egyptian tv and cinema and they quietly demanded more purity in egyptian movies and shows.
its not just official egyption tv. in these countries u can get recievers with up to 800 channels, and many of these channels have porn, including interactive porn channels, where ladies are naked on tv, and getting fone calls with these men and they tell them what to do. they need to crack down on these things.
hey everybody sexual harrassments are every where in this world, not only in egypt !!! but what egyptians care about is that they reject those women who dress up like *********** so what do u think ??
it's not a problem of egypt .. sexual harrassment is found any where ...
by the way i am originally from egypt :-)
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. Just thought it was interesting!
Yesterday walking with my dogs i was amused by how were aranged the blankets on the small sand from the river side: 1 topless woman - one meter away 1 man- another 1 meter distance another topless woman - less then 1 meter another man - and after that followed 2 classical swim suits women without any men between them.
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