I was shocked. I was there few hours after the fight took place. I always thought those guards were supposed to protect us. I guess this means that people could be robbed, assaulted, or even killed and the guards will just stand there and "observe and report illegal activities".
I don't know if i would have helped her out or just stand there and watch. I really don't know, because I have seen what happens to people who try to stop fights like that, the whole group jumps them.
It is either watch as two people fight, or try to stop the fight and get jumped by five + people.
These fights take place in several Seattle high schools, drugs and "gangs".
70:28 Lo! the doom of their Lord is that before which none can feel secure
That's terrible. Especially since it was a bunch of little kids fighting...any group of adults could have just stopped the fight. I guess everyone was sort of looking at the security guard wondering what's wrong with this picture..
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
That does make me sick how the security could just watch on , no attempt what so ever to even intercept.
To my Akh's tryin to stay on their deen
It gets mean especially when u stay on the scene
And at the same try to stay out of trouble
But don't forget the blessing's in the struggle...
You gotta stay on your salats, your zakats, your Quran
I was shocked. I was there few hours after the fight took place. I always thought those guards were supposed to protect us. I guess this means that people could be robbed, assaulted, or even killed and the guards will just stand there and "observe and report illegal activities".
I don't know if i would have helped her out or just stand there and watch. I really don't know, because I have seen what happens to people who try to stop fights like that, the whole group jumps them.
It is either watch as two people fight, or try to stop the fight and get jumped by five + people.
These fights take place in several Seattle high schools, drugs and "gangs".
well then, Asalamu alaykum neighbor!
btw, the guards claim that they will get fired if they intervene. in an interview yesterday, the girl said that she had told 2 "real" policemen about her approaching battle. they told her to just get on the bus and go home! even after they witnessed some of the taunting!
Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html
I was shocked. I was there few hours after the fight took place. I always thought those guards were supposed to protect us. I guess this means that people could be robbed, assaulted, or even killed and the guards will just stand there and "observe and report illegal activities".
I don't know if i would have helped her out or just stand there and watch. I really don't know, because I have seen what happens to people who try to stop fights like that, the whole group jumps them.
It is either watch as two people fight, or try to stop the fight and get jumped by five + people.
These fights take place in several Seattle high schools, drugs and "gangs".
I get your point sister that its definitely a risk to try to intervene we've all heard n read of incidents where people die when trying to stop things like this happening. I see it as if my own brother or sister was in that same position i wouldn't hesitate so that person is someone else's son/daughter, brother/sister. We need to stand up to these thugs who roam the streets n show we aren't afraid of them.
To my Akh's tryin to stay on their deen
It gets mean especially when u stay on the scene
And at the same try to stay out of trouble
But don't forget the blessing's in the struggle...
You gotta stay on your salats, your zakats, your Quran
Anyone can call 911 its not a big deal! It doesn't have to be a guard only!
Blame the law, not security guards. They are mostly either hired privately, or only allocated a specific area to deal in (at least in the UK). They do not have many powers over your average citizen in most cases.
The article should more accurately point out that no-one seemed to do anything, not just them.
ARGGGGGGGGGGG! I don't care!!! how dangerous it is to intervene! If we as men just stand there we are as guilty as those IDIOT security gaurds.....Are you actually telling me that because you signed a peice of paper aying you can't act on this ,you WONT???? To see this girl getting beaten is a blatent reminder of how liberal and scared we have become.
I can guaruntee one thing....If I where there I would have threw that kid in front of the buss! I don't care if they are girl or boy! If they're ready to throw down, they better be ready to receive! And then i would have socked those gaurds for watching!
God help the person who hits a woman in front of me.....God help them!
You mean the law of self-defence, which would have allowed them or any other member of the public to intercede on a third party's behalf, as in this particular case?
No, blame the attackers, the security guards and every other capable adult who did nothing but watch.
You mean the law of self-defence, which would have allowed them or any other member of the public to intercede on a third party's behalf, as in this particular case?
No, blame the attackers, the security guards and every other capable adult who did nothing but watch.
The law on self defence is tricky though to be honest, there is a fine line between reasonable force and excessive force meaning you could be liable for injury or death caused.... i'll give you an example from a statutory law case Clegg-
A solider at a guard post saw a vehicle coming towards him at a excessive speed, and reasonably assumed it could be terrorist and fired 2 shots as it passed the guard post he fired again and killed the passenger. It was held since the car passed the guard post it was excessive and found guilty of manslaughter.
I think the law needs to clear up on self defence , but anyway someone should of intervened regardless.
To my Akh's tryin to stay on their deen
It gets mean especially when u stay on the scene
And at the same try to stay out of trouble
But don't forget the blessing's in the struggle...
You gotta stay on your salats, your zakats, your Quran
The law on self defence is tricky though to be honest, there is a fine line between reasonable force and excessive force meaning you could be liable for injury or death caused.... i'll give you an example from a statutory law case Clegg-
A solider at a guard post saw a vehicle coming towards him at a excessive speed, and reasonably assumed it could be terrorist and fired 2 shots as it passed the guard post he fired again and killed the passenger. It was held since the car passed the guard post it was excessive and found guilty of manslaughter.
I think the law needs to clear up on self defence , but anyway someone should of intervened regardless.
What I had in mind for intervention was simply:
a) Attempting to literally hold the attackers away (as opposed to hitting them)
and/or
b) Have the guards surround the victim so as to prevent the attackers attacking
etc
Common sense. It's a life safer.
I don't know if i would have helped her out or just stand there and watch. I really don't know, because I have seen what happens to people who try to stop fights like that, the whole group jumps them.
It is either watch as two people fight, or try to stop the fight and get jumped by five + people.
These fights take place in several Seattle high schools, drugs and "gangs".
While I understand this argument (and what I'm about to say is probably contrary to my 'common sense' remark above), I have to say that were I a witness of that event, and if I did not physically intervene, I personally would still feel guilty for not attempting to help the poor girl out.
a) Attempting to literally hold the attackers away (as opposed to hitting them)
and/or
b) Have the guards surround the victim so as to prevent the attackers attacking
Common sense. It's a life safer.
Yeah but then these days you try to hold an attacker most likely he'll attempt to hit you to escape or maybe if its a group they'll all jump on you (they like to roll in packs), i gave an example of when a guy tried to stop a mugging and ended up dead, these days the youths carry all sorts and they are not afraid to use it.
Maybe the guards could of surrounded the victim but hmm in situations like these hard to think reasonably.
To my Akh's tryin to stay on their deen
It gets mean especially when u stay on the scene
And at the same try to stay out of trouble
But don't forget the blessing's in the struggle...
You gotta stay on your salats, your zakats, your Quran
Yeah but then these days you try to hold an attacker most likely he'll attempt to hit you to escape or maybe if its a group they'll all jump on you (they like to roll in packs), i gave an example of when a guy tried to stop a mugging and ended up dead, these days the youths carry all sorts and they are not afraid to use it.
Maybe the guards could of surrounded the victim but hmm in situations like these hard to think reasonably.
That's true. Maybe I'm just grumpy.
I've edited my previous post, adding my thoughts of risking one's own skin to save another's.
Yeah but then these days you try to hold an attacker most likely he'll attempt to hit you to escape or maybe if its a group they'll all jump on you (they like to roll in packs), i gave an example of when a guy tried to stop a mugging and ended up dead, these days the youths carry all sorts and they are not afraid to use it.
Maybe the guards could of surrounded the victim but hmm in situations like these hard to think reasonably.
Oh no this world has become so soft
We worry to much about the law, and not enough about the value of life.
I on the other hand would rather get hurt, or die trying to help another, no matter the situation, no matter local law.
Laws these days protect more of the attackers than they do the victims, it's a sad reality
We worry to much about the law, and not enough about the value of life.
I on the other hand would rather get hurt, or die trying to help another, no matter the situation, no matter local law.
Laws these days protect more of the attackers than they do the victims, it's a sad reality
Agreed when comes to situation like these we should protect that person no matter what, hence i said
format_quote Originally Posted by S<chowdhury
someone should of intervened regardless.
I really can't comment on the law its hard for legislation to meet every scenario, therefore its usually subjective test on the defendant on what he thought was reasonable and upto the jury who usually sympathise if the defendant aimed to prevent a crime from happening.
It is a sad reality, i don't think they are afraid of the law though it is a factor but mostly afraid of the consequences that follow, the world would be a better place if using Brother Muezzin were effective, but its not. Even if you intervened without physical violence, but used words or dragged the guy off the victim, i'll give you my experience when i intervened and threatened the guy to stay away or i'll blah blah, he actually backed off but....... a few weeks later we cross paths again n he had a few of his mates n well they are spiteful individuals . But anyway i guess the message is not to be afraid of these fools on the street if one stands up usually a few other public members follow hopefully
Last edited by S<Chowdhury; 02-17-2010 at 10:52 AM.
To my Akh's tryin to stay on their deen
It gets mean especially when u stay on the scene
And at the same try to stay out of trouble
But don't forget the blessing's in the struggle...
You gotta stay on your salats, your zakats, your Quran
“and they said: ‘Allaah (Alone) is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs (for us).” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:173]
“Allaah it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six Days. Then He rose over (Istawaa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?”
[al-Sajdah 32:4]
Those who believe and obscure not their belief by wrongdoing, theirs is safety; and they are rightly guided. (6:86)
Behold! verily on the friends of Allah there is no fear, nor shall they grieve. (10:62)
SEATTLE -- The teenage girl who was brutally beaten in a bus tunnel last month once assaulted a security guard at a convenience store during a shoplifting attempt, according to police documents.
Aiesha Baker, 15, pleaded guilty to second-degree robbery in September 2009 in an incident at a South Seattle store.
Investigators said Baker and another teenage girl visited Saar's Market in the 9000 block of Rainier Ave. S. around 10:30 p.m. The store's security guard saw Baker's friend putting a bottle of Rock Star Energy Drink and a bag of Funyuns into her bag, the police report said.
When the two girls bypassed the cash register and began walking toward the front door, the guard stopped the girls and detained Baker's friend, detectives said. Baker was free to go.
As the guard began escorting the girl back to the store's office, she fought back and tried to flee, the document said. The guard caught up to her within a short distance, but the teen, who was fighting back, yelled at Baker to help her.
Baker ran toward the pair, detectives said, and the two girls began punching the guard in the head and face with closed fists.
Both of the girls were arrested. The guard sustained minor injuries.
Baker was given four months of supervision and 36 hours of community service.
SEATTLE - Another victim of Aiesha Baker has come forward, claiming she wants to set the record straight.
Tamie Cox said Baker, 15, and another girl attacked her on a sidewalk in Edmonds in May 2009.
She said Baker was "hitting me" while the other girl "grabbed my hair and she's pulling me down in submission while she was punching me in the face and the arm."
A passerby saw the attack and called 911. Minutes later, police arrived and arrested Baker and her friend.
"And we went over and I identified the girls. And my purse was sitting on the hood of the car, and all my belongings were strewn down the street," said Cox.
Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html
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, but anyway someone should of intervened regardless.
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