Not your average dating question (or maybe it is?!)

[AntiKarateKid]

Right. Fornications bad. I totally agree. What I disagree with is how marriage is shoved onto us. I personally am looking for someone but am not ready financially for marriage. That being said...

Why is it that meeting with a person in public places and seeing if you are compatible (without sex etc) is wrong? I'm supposed to spend eternity with this person. Why can't I know them on a deeper level than my male friends?

Doesn't it bother people when you say "bro to control your urges get married", "there is no love before marriage"

So I'm supposed to marry someone I don't love to fulfill basic carnal needs?

[Insecured soul]

Right. Fornications bad. I totally agree. What I disagree with is how marriage is shoved onto us. I personally am looking for someone but am not ready financially for marriage. That being said...

Why is it that meeting with a person in public places and seeing if you are compatible (without sex etc) is wrong? I'm supposed to spend eternity with this person. Why can't I know them on a deeper level than my male friends?

Doesn't it bother people when you say "bro to control your urges get married", "there is no love before marriage"

So I'm supposed to marry someone I don't love to fulfill basic carnal needs?

who told you u would end up spending eternity with ur spouse? in general what if the wife ends up in hellfire or the husband?
there is no surety the whole family will go in jannah

regarding your marriage, i dont know what i can say, may be u can tell ur parents to search for a girl and also u try to save money for ur marriage?


btw ur userid is amusing, no hard feelings


salaam alaikum

[cat eyes]

Who told you in islam that you can't get to know a person before marriage? you can as long as there is a wali present. find someone whom your attracted to and the love will soon develop.. you can spend as long as you want getting to know some one as long as there is mehram present, maybe your not weak person thats fine but how do you know the girl might have the urge to do more with you while both of you are alone? so its foolish to take such risks.

may Allah guide you ameen

[manaal]

^ good point. You could also chat with her over the phone. In my culture we usually have arranged marriages and the man and woman are allowed to talk to each other over the phone before making a decision.

[Woodrow]

I doubt if it is possible to actually love a person of the opposite gender until after marriage. Dating often blinds a person and what they come to see is unending love, is actually short term lust. Love does not come, it has to be earned and worked for 24/7 and this is not possible until after marriage.

The "Dating Game" is just that---a game. Games end and you usually have a winner and a looser.

[Salahudeen]

I think when you go through trials together as husband and wife, when you raise kids together and go through hardships together sticking by each other pulling each other through and comforting each other then that's when the real strong love comes.

[AntiKarateKid]

Thanks for the replies all around. I am always scared that asking these questions might spread fitna if my thoughts turn out to be wrong. Let me just say that I'm glad I came back to LI.

Anywhoo, about the mahram. I find the idea of a big bearded uncle breathing down my back as I talk to his daughter extremely awkward and stifling for any meaningful conversation. If we're in a public place, what's the need for one?

My idea of dating is taking to the girl in social settings. If we get along enough after a while, if shes muslim I'd ask her if it'd be awkward for me to ask her parents for permission to take her out. If I get the green light, then cool. I'd keep it halal, see if our personalities and views of life match and go for marriage when we feel ready. If no, well then it gets complicated. I consider myself a practicing Muslim, and if shes interested in me but her parents reject me for no real islamic reason its up to the daughter I feel. Parents cant force marriage on her. What do ya think?


@ bro Insecured: My username is because I cant stand the Karatekid and if me and him were the same age, I'd challenge him to an epic battle. Being myself I'd surely defeat him, thus earning me the title Anti-Karatekid!

[أحمد]

I doubt if it is possible to actually love a person of the opposite gender until after marriage. Dating often blinds a person and what they come to see is unending love, is actually short term lust. Love does not come, it has to be earned and worked for 24/7 and this is not possible until after marriage.

The "Dating Game" is just that---a game. Games end and you usually have a winner and a looser.

Very true; many people fail to understand this, so they end up in the game.

Instead of thinking about potential spouse, if people are to drown in an illusion built on the foundations of a fantastic love; they need to cut down on their fiction reading and concentrate on the guidelines set by Islam.

I understand that fiction is given the position of truth in various parts of western education system, especially at school level. This is why there maybe people who think fantastic means good, rather than knowing its real meaning, which is UNREAL.

All this reminds me of secondary school education system, where there are more young teachers who try to act "cool" by using slang terms, which in the real sense have a different meaning altogether. "That was wicked!" is supposed to mean that was good. Doesn't wicked mean evil?

Antonymous use of words and phrases confuses youngsters enough.

Social demoralisation is a growing problem; its not wise to join a problem, but it is to try to solve it or be part of its solution. The only true solution to this problem is the guidance given by Allah and taught by the Rasool

[أحمد]

Thanks for the replies all around. I am always scared that asking these questions might spread fitna if my thoughts turn out to be wrong. Let me just say that I'm glad I came back to LI.

Anywhoo, about the mahram. I find the idea of a big bearded uncle breathing down my back as I talk to his daughter extremely awkward and stifling for any meaningful conversation. If we're in a public place, what's the need for one?

My idea of dating is taking to the girl in social settings. If we get along enough after a while, if shes muslim I'd ask her if it'd be awkward for me to ask her parents for permission to take her out. If I get the green light, then cool. I'd keep it halal, see if our personalities and views of life match and go for marriage when we feel ready. If no, well then it gets complicated. I consider myself a practicing Muslim, and if shes interested in me but her parents reject me for no real islamic reason its up to the daughter I feel. Parents cant force marriage on her. What do ya think?


@ bro Insecured: My username is because I cant stand the Karatekid and if me and him were the same age, I'd challenge him to an epic battle. Being myself I'd surely defeat him, thus earning me the title Anti-Karatekid!

It doesn't have to be the big bearded uncle, it could be the big bearded brother.

As for forced marriage, it has no place in Islam.

[Abdul Wahid]

Assalamu'alaykum

Firstly there is no such thing as dating in Islam.

Secondly there really is no need to rush in getting married. It's a massive commitment. Ofcourse when your ready (financially) then yeah look around or get your family to help you look for a suitable partner. Also don't get married straight-away, talk to her in the presence of her wali. Get to know her. Or you can take your sister/mum to these 'meetings'. Atleast your not alone. Never be alone with a woman. When people start 'dating' thinking its OK because were getting to know each other and they are alone then its a temptation towards wrong-doing One thing leads to another. Plus its haram. You can be the strongest Muslim in terms of imaan, piety etc but being alone together is not the answer.

The Prophet(SAW) also reportedly said, "Whenever a man is alone with a woman, Satan is the third among them."

I'm at uni and I've seen the things Muslims get up to when there alone as 'friends'. It's so bad. Believe me you don't want to take the risk.

As Muslims we should follow the commands of the Qur'an (24:30-31) at all times to "lower their gaze and guard their modesty...." Islam recognizes that we are human and are given to human weakness, so this rule provides safeguards for our own sake.

Seriously there is no such thing as love before marriage. It's just a saying. Real love is when your married as brother squiggle has mentioned.

You do it a the HALAL way and you will see the benefits InshaALLAH. Firstly do dua to ALLAH(SWT) to help you find the right person. So start the hunt in search of a pious practicing woman through family. Get to know her in the presence of a mahram. If its working out good, families can get to know each other.

Before making a final decision, both of you can pray Salat Istikhara to seek ALLAH's help and guidance.

Both of you can agree to pursue marriage or go your separate ways. Islam has given the freedom to both men and women, that you cannot be forced into a marriage that you don't want.

Going through family way is the best way because it helps ensure the strength of the marriage. Family involvement in the choice of a marriage partner helps assure that the choice is not based on a lovey dovey romantic story but instead of a careful evaluation of the compatibility of the partner. This is one of the reasons why such marriages are often successful in the long-term.

[AntiKarateKid]

Bro Wahid, one thing about your post really bugs me. How can you say there is no such thing as love before marriage. I am sure the Prophet pbuh loved the people he chose for marriage. Everything can be abused. Love before marriage can be abused. But the possibility does not make it haram.

[Abdul Wahid]

Bro Wahid, one thing about your post really bugs me. How can you say there is no such thing as love before marriage. I am sure the Prophet pbuh loved the people he chose for marriage. Everything can be abused. Love before marriage can be abused. But the possibility does not make it haram.

Yes I do agree that it doesn't make it haram. What is love to you? What's your definition of love?

Maybe I should have put it like this. You can like someone because they are attractive and by getting to know them. You think your in love or perhaps you are in love because they are your ideal partner. But my understanding is that true love is acquired when your married and when your living together as brother squiggle has mentioned. That's my understanding. Everyone is different. People often are in love before marriage and get married to avoid committing sins.

[أحمد]

Bro Wahid, one thing about your post really bugs me. How can you say there is no such thing as love before marriage. I am sure the Prophet pbuh loved the people he chose for marriage. Everything can be abused. Love before marriage can be abused. But the possibility does not make it haram.

There's a big difference between liking someone's personality and humbleness to loving someone before marriage.
Brother Woodrow summed it up beautifully, "Love does not come, it has to be earned and worked for 24/7 and this is not possible until after marriage."

[Asiyah3]

I agree with brother Woodrow.

That person you date may not be the same person after marriage. What will you do if your or her expectations aren't met?

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam Alaykum

Why is it that meeting with a person in public places and seeing if you are compatible (without sex etc) is wrong?

Firstly , this goes aginast Quran and Sunnah .

Secondly , there is no gurantee that marriage will take place between these 2. Also , How many times and with how many would be wife/ husband Muslims should spend time like this ?

Thirdly . If people see a woman spending time with a man alone , surely it will give them a bad impression about the sister . Then there is a risk that she won't get any good proposal in future. Though it's not permitted for men also , mainly people condemn sisters .


There could be more wisdom behind the bar against spending time with
opposite sex alone ( without wali ) . Why not talk to would be wife in front of her wali ?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:

Thanks for the replies all around. I am always scared that asking these questions might spread fitna if my thoughts turn out to be wrong. Let me just say that I'm glad I came back to LI.

Anywhoo, about the mahram. I find the idea of a big bearded uncle breathing down my back as I talk to his daughter extremely awkward and stifling for any meaningful conversation. If we're in a public place, what's the need for one?

let me get this straight. you (not you personally, just speaking in general) cant face a man, so you decide it would be better to brainwash the sister instead? becuase women are more naive and weak right? and if the guy isn't there, then she is sure to fall you because our mahrams are big bad men who brainwash us right? get out.

im sorry, i really don't mean to have a go at you, but comments like that just make my blood boil.

on topic:
you have every right to marry someone you are comfortable with and she comfortable with you. however you shouldn't make the mistake by thinking that Islam doesn't allow this and/or the only way you can feel comfortable with one another is by breaking any guidelines. it is possible to marry someone you are comfortable with and have her dad/mahrams present.

i sort of get the feeling sometimes when people ask these type of question, that these type of questions are stemmed from an ignorant culture which practically outlaws any type pf feelings between males and females and think it is something absurd.

these ideas are ludicrous and unrealistic. you dont have to marry anyone you dont want and neither does your wife. you should feel at ease with who ever you decide to marry...there is no harm in that.

you can manage to ask questions/get to know the sister with the presence of her mahram? alternatively you can do thorough background checks...don't rely too much on people in these matters more then what is necessary otherwise you risk getting wires crossed. use as little people to help you find out about the sister/ask her questions as per necessary. try getting someone reliable and fair (i cant emphasis that enough)...often people use their female mahrams to talk with the girl/her family.

im not sure what you mean by falling in love before marriage and if you really mean that to be some type of inclination, but marriage doesn't equal love and love doesn't equal marriage. you don't need to be in love with your spouse to marry them, you just need a decent level of respect for one another, abit of attraction/emotional inclination and a few things in common.
often people make the mistake that one needs to be in love with their potential to marry them, but love comes years after marriage. it literally takes years to build.

My idea of dating is taking to the girl in social settings. If we get along enough after a while, if shes muslim I'd ask her if it'd be awkward for me to ask her parents for permission to take her out. If I get the green light, then cool. I'd keep it halal, see if our personalities and views of life match and go for marriage when we feel ready. If no, well then it gets complicated. I consider myself a practicing Muslim, and if shes interested in me but her parents reject me for no real islamic reason its up to the daughter I feel. Parents cant force marriage on her. What do ya think?

but if her parents say no, what next? what can you do? i mean are you expecting her to run away with you or something.

the thing is with your method, there is that emotional attraction/lovey dovey unrealistic story. 2 people get attracted, they cant be with each other for whatever reasons. they either both wait for one another, or one gets sick of the other/their families to get around and so they move on leaving the other in a mess.

the key is winning the heart of the wali first not the girl...well its important to win both their hearts over, but people often fall in the trap of jumping the gun and someone can get hurt.

[Alpha Dude]

I think when you go through trials together as husband and wife, when you raise kids together and go through hardships together sticking by each other pulling each other through and comforting each other then that's when the real strong love comes.

^ this.

I understand your position AKK, but we have to let go of any preconceived notions of what love means in the west. It's usually the romantic stuff that is in our minds prior to marriage.

As an off-topic question, something that's been on my mind lately - who's the better husband: A guy that brings flowers for his wife and writes poems of love everyday whilst relying on her for income/runs a joint income house or a guy that busts his gut doing overtime and fulfils his islamic obligation so that the wife doesn't need to burden herself yet isn't into all the romantic airy fairy stuff?

I would hazard a guess and say there are a multitude of sisters out there who have been reading too many trashy novels that they'd prefer the first guy.

[manaal]

Bro Wahid, one thing about your post really bugs me. How can you say there is no such thing as love before marriage. I am sure the Prophet pbuh loved the people he chose for marriage. Everything can be abused. Love before marriage can be abused. But the possibility does not make it haram.

Of course there can be love before marriage. If the person is the one for you you'd know at once. That's how it was for my elder sis. My younger sis was not so sure when we first got her to meet the guy (mainly because he was so nervous and didn't know what to say!), so we arranged a phone call and she asked all sorts of questions, like what his religious views are, his interests, his job etc., And she said OK after that.

And why do you picture a mahram with a big beard? Is that a qualification to be mahram? I'm sure you can find a small bearded or unbearded mahram!

[Cabdullahi]

My idea of dating is taking to the girl in social settings. If we get along enough after a while, if shes muslim I'd ask her if it'd be awkward for me to ask her parents for permission to take her out. If I get the green light, then cool. I'd keep it halal,

but the devil doesnt want you to keep it halal...so it will be something like this... you take her out then 'why dont you come to my place we'll have dinner'' then 'sister relax take of your jacket'' then before you know it BAM!

you have to shut up shop...give no chances for the devil to do his business.

[Cabdullahi]

let me get this straight. you (not you personally, just speaking in general) cant face a man,

what you just did there is clever masha'Allah!....