Is USA a Christian country? Absolutely not! If I declare the message of Gospel in the main street of New York City, I would be ridiculed and made fun of by passersby. Perhaps security guards would come to shut my mouth. If I talk about Jesus openly in the workplace, I would be fired. The list goes on and on. Abortion, same sex marriage, too liberal life style and other immoral behaviors are accepted as normal because the majority of the population supports them. Then how could US be a Christian country no matter how many percentages of people claim to be Christians? If just half of the population were genuine Christians, the society would be much different from what it is now. Do not be confused with patriotism and faith. No, US are a secular country. They decide things for their own national interest, not for the interest of Jesus. However, I want US to remain a secular country although I am concerned about some undesirable immoral issues. I would be one of the first people against the nationalization of our faith, because we have learned a painful lesson from the history during the Dark Ages. Nationalization or institutionalization of (any) belief is the beginning of disaster!
When our belief was nationalized long time ago, everybody was required or forced to believe it from birth against their will. If any question or doubt was raised openly which was against the belief or its tradition, people were persecuted just for their different views. Because honest question or doubt was considered as dishonoring God, society, and family, cruel punishments such as honor killing and public execution were justified and exercised. I do admit that during this dark age of our belief our spiritual forefathers did many cruel things to humanity in the name of God through the Crusades, the Inquisition and some other means. They were in stark contrast to the unconditional love of Jesus for all human beings. Many innocent people including Jews and Muslims were persecuted during this Dark Age. On behalf of our spiritual ancestors I sincerely apologize to all humanity. Every cruel deed was justified simply because it was done for the glory of God. Without knowing that God regards human beings the most precious in the world, religious and political leaders persecuted and killed many innocent people with the wrong perception that this cruel act purified the society from evil and thus honored God. In fact these things are much more evil than immorality. It was very much like former communist countries such as North Korea with the only difference that the ideology of communism was replaced by religion.
This is what I mean by the danger of nationalization or institutionalization of belief. I am glad we do not live anymore in this shameful dark age of the past caused by the nationalization of faith. Belief should be a personal matter. It is a personal relationship between an individual and God. People should not be discriminated or persecuted just because they do not believe the same God or have a different belief or leave their belief. Only the Creator himself is above human beings because He created them. No religions, no religious rules, no religious traditions, and absolutely nothing are above the precious human lives.
I agree. Though I have no doubt that most (not all) of the Founding Fathers were themselves sincere Christians and hoped that the Christian culture would be the dominant culture of the land. The USA is NOT a Christian nation. It is secular. It's political structure is completely a-theistic. (Meaning without God, not anti-God.) And I don't really want to live in a theocracy that is actually ruled by human intermediaries who interpret for me what God's will is alleged to be. I say "alleged" because as I look at some who have been in authority and declared what they understood God's will to be in the operation of governments in the past, I often find myself in disagreement. So, should any one be given that kind of authority today, I have no reason to believe that they would do a better job than those in the past. Therefore, I am more comfortable with the government being derived from the collective will of the governed than the interpretation of a few with regard to the divine will.
Thank you very much for your reply. I agree with much of your comment. USA is not a Christian country in the sense that the Constitution does not accept Christianity as the national religion, together with the principle of the separation of church and state. It is clearly different from other theocratic countries. Here is the definition of a Christian. A Christian is someone who has restored the broken relationship with God by sincerely accepting Jesus as God’s forgiveness. It does not matter if he/she was born to Christian parents, or he/she was baptized when young, or he/she goes to church every Sunday, or he/she is a priest or pastor or even a pope. Many people in the west think they are Christians, although they are not. They are merely church goers.
People should not be discriminated or persecuted just because they do not believe the same God or have a different belief or leave their belief. Only the Creator himself is above human beings because He created them. No religions, no religious rules, no religious traditions, and absolutely nothing are above the precious human lives.
I liked these lines. Thank you for sharing this thread with us.
"O you who believe! Fear ALLAH as He should be feared" [aal 'Imraan, 102]
So what is the point of your post? That Christians have to suppress their faith in order to fit in? And if you express it you'll be mocked or worse get sacked from your job? Wonderful where do I sign up?
Muslim peoples encounter with western style secularism has not been a happy one and so are deeply suspicious. In fact many secular governments in the middle east ruthlessly imposed secularism on an unwilling public. In the 1920s the Turkish leader Attaturk determined to ape after the western suppressed the madrasas (religious schools) abolished sufi orders, mandated a latin alphabet instead of arabic, imposed western surnames in place of old Islamic names and titles and forced Turks to wear western dress.
Reza Shah Pahlavi, the shah of Iran who ruled from 1921 to 1941, stripped the ulama, the religious scholars of their endowment, replaced the sharia with a civil law code, prohibited citizens from going on hajj, suppressed the shia religious rites commemorating the death of Husayn and forbade Islamic dress. His soldiers tore off womens veils in the street, and unarmed protesters who demonstrated against the regime dress laws in 1935 were shot hundred died. His son Muhammed Reza Shah (1944 - 1979) was just as anti relgious. He closed madrasas, retricted public displays of religion and imprisoned exiled and killed many members of the ulama
Because of this and undoubtedly many more experiences secualrism is perceived by many Muslims as anto religious, intolerant and a threat to the very basis of Islamic society and judging by USA 'efforts' to bring 'freedom' and 'democracy' to the middle east, muslims are right to be wary, very wary.
So no just because you have had a bad experience with christianity during your history doesnt mean all religious people from whereever have had similiar experiences. Your style of government works for you, why dont you leave others to decide what type of governments work for them alright and stop interfering.
It is secular. It's political structure is completely a-theistic. (Meaning without God, not anti-God.)
Actually in the decades to come you'll realise that secularism is probably (among other things) the greatest danger to Christanity (other religions as well) as many perceptive American commentators have noted. Secularisation is well on its way in Europe and you can see the consequences for christianity as it is steadily marginalised out of public life (and if dawkinites could have their way, private life as well) becoming a weak and insignificant faith.
The first purpose of my post is that many people including Muslims tend to identify USA with Christianity. USA is a secular country and makes their domestic and foreign policies for their own nation interest, not for the interest of Jesus. While USA is very much interested in oil, Jesus is not. As a born again Christian I do not support some of their domestic and foreign policies. The second purpose is the danger of nationalization of belief. Belief is a personal matter between an individual and God. People should not be discriminated or persecuted just because they do not believe the same God or have a different belief or leave their belief. No religions, no religious rules, no religious traditions should be above the precious human lives. Throughout the human history people including Christians have persecuted and killed fellow human beings for the sake of religion. They had the wrong perception that their cruel act purified the society from evil and thus honored God. As I reflect on what turned people into this kind of cruel behavior, the root cause of the problem is religious zeal. Many people are confused with religious zeal and the love of God. They are two different things. People with religious zeal think that religion is the most important, while people with the love of God think that God and human beings are the most important. People with religious zeal are very sensitive and explosive, while people with the love of God are very tolerant and joyful. People with religious zeal are easily offended, while people with the love of God are just smiling.
It is the truth.. perhaps the truth can be a little harsh for delicate ears, but ignorant and wrong it isn't!
all the best
What you've expressed here is an opinion. And you're certainly welcome to it. I won't argue with you on that. But it is certainly not the truth. It is more like, one side of a coin. There is good and bad in everything. Some things you may not like, but there is also plenty to like.
What you've expressed here is an opinion. And you're certainly welcome to it. I won't argue with you on that. But it is certainly not the truth. It is more like, one side of a coin. There is good and bad in everything. Some things you may not like, but there is also plenty to like.
The opinion is an educated one and based on facts.. is there any other side than the one we see?
I don't need to even purchase books on the matter to see it plain'/patent to the naked eye.. let's not do the laundry list of laurelses foreign and domestic against folks well not fundie christian or Zionists..
have a grand day!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
It is how you see the world.... Believe me, I can't change that, nor can I try. A small percentage of what you say may hold some truth, but it is not the entire picture. If I'm not mistaken from reading other posts on this board, you're also of he belief that 9-11 was an inside job (forgive me if I'm mistaken). If that's the case, sadly I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this issue. That's perfectly fine, but I don't like the idea that you may be walking around with this unnecessary hatred.
It is how you see the world.... Believe me, I can't change that, nor can I try. A small percentage of what you say may hold some truth, but it is not the entire picture. If I'm not mistaken from reading other posts on this board, you're also of he belief that 9-11 was an inside job (forgive me if I'm mistaken). If that's the case, sadly I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this issue. That's perfectly fine, but I don't like the idea that you may be walking around with this unnecessary hatred.
I can't believe you'd be challenging me on how 'I see the world' rather than the world currently for what it is-- I don't really value the opinion of folks who worship a man from west Asia nor do I view any decision made by them big or small as having any semblance of logic or common sense or of interest to their fellow man!..
nor have I the desire to see eye to eye with you, what would be the point of that?
As for my feelings, they are my own whatever their nature is, or would you like beyond wars, destruction and immense hatred (which is in fact spawned and bred) by your fellow countrymen to perform little lobotomies on people to rob them of whatever is left of their sense of self?
funny stuff!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I can't believe you'd be challenging me on how 'I see the world' rather than the world currently for what it is-- I don't really value the opinion of folks who worship a man from west Asia nor do I view any decision made by them big or small as having any semblance of logic or common sense or of interest to their fellow man!..
nor have I the desire to see eye to eye with you, what would be the point of that?
As for my feelings, they are my own whatever their nature is, or would you like beyond wars, destruction and immense hatred (which is in fact spawned and bred) by your fellow countrymen to perform little lobotomies on people to rob them of whatever is left of their sense of self?
funny stuff!
I know my opinion doesn't matter here, as you're "clearly" the superior to me, but you're not showing yourself in the best light. I'm not challenging you on any of your beliefs. I was merely trying to point out that things are not as clear cut and negative as you make them out to be. But I think it's good that you don't value other people's opinions or listen to what anyone has to say. It makes it much easier to stick to what you "know". That's fine.
I know my opinion doesn't matter here, as you're "clearly" the superior to me, but you're not showing yourself in the best light. I'm not challenging you on any of your beliefs. I was merely trying to point out that things are not as clear cut and negative as you make them out to be. But I think it's good that you don't value other people's opinions or listen to what anyone has to say. It makes it much easier to stick to what you "know". That's fine.
You can 'point out' the positives and your own brand of truths to like minded individuals, and I am sure you'd have quite the turnout as I understand it, the majority are molded from the same stock!
It is fine indeed.. as to why it required four unnecessary posts remains a conundrum or where you hoping for an ego stroke from some member who'll take pity on your insta modest, yawningly predictable rhetoric?
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I can't believe you'd be challenging me on how 'I see the world' rather than the world currently for what it is-- I don't really value the opinion of folks who worship a man from west Asia nor do I view any decision made by them big or small as having any semblance of logic or common sense or of interest to their fellow man!..
nor have I the desire to see eye to eye with you, what would be the point of that?
As for my feelings, they are my own whatever their nature is, or would you like beyond wars, destruction and immense hatred (which is in fact spawned and bred) by your fellow countrymen to perform little lobotomies on people to rob them of whatever is left of their sense of self?
funny stuff!
You seem to have misunderstanding. We do not worship three gods. We worship one God who is revealed in different ways (The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit). As DavidK565 said, you seem to be full of hatred and anger for whatever reason. This is a good indication that your temper comes from religious zeal instead of the love of God.
You seem to have misunderstanding. We do not worship three gods. We worship one God who is revealed in different ways (The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit). As DavidK565 said, you seem to be full of hatred and anger for whatever reason. This is a good indication that your temper comes from religious zeal instead of the love of God.
Having spent my youth in a catholic school, I am quite familiar with your beliefs, and it doesn't matter how you slice it, you are not monotheists, more akin to greek mythology except even there Zeus and Hercules aren't one in the same..
btw is there a hell in christianity? if yes and we all know that, it is the case, then how do you reconcile all that so called godlove with his eternal wrath?
funny stuff
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Very similar to the way that Muslims do. After all, aren't some of the 99 names of Allah "The All Forgiving", "The Loving", and "The Merciful"?
Not at all, whereas God's mercy overtakes his wrath in Islam, we have no disillusionment about incurring it.
There is been a swarm of late of 'Does Allah love everybody' you know the new christian motto if we are to neglect wipe-outs of entire folks as per bible and ignore centuries of christian history, to this newly found Jesus loves you, well if he loves you so much why does he haul your behind to the abyss? How does that work out exactly?
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Having spent my youth in a catholic school, I am quite familiar with your beliefs, and it doesn't matter how you slice it, you are not monotheists, more akin to greek mythology except even there Zeus and Hercules aren't one in the same..
btw is there a hell in christianity? if yes and we all know that, it is the case, then how do you reconcile all that so called godlove with his eternal wrath?
funny stuff
I do not think you were a Christian while going to the Catholic school. A Christian is someone who has restored the broken relationship with God by sincerely accepting Jesus as God’s forgiveness. It does not matter if he/she was born to Christian parents, or he/she was baptized when young, or he/she goes to church every Sunday, or he/she is a priest or pastor or even a pope. Many people in the west think they are Christians, although they are not. They are merely churchgoers.
By seeing the way of your writing, you seem to be infected with negative psychology. God’s eternal wrath is not caused by rejecting Jesus as the Savior and Lord! Because our sins and rebellions against God, we were doomed to the eternal separation from God which is nothing but eternal death. That was our destiny in the first place. But we were rescued from God’s eternal wrath by accepting Jesus as God’s forgiveness for our sins. God’s love for us is unconditional in character. “While we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). Regardless of whether we will receive or reject His love of forgiveness, or whether we will submit to Him or not, He first gave us Jesus as a sacrifice for our sins. This unconditional love motivates our deepest love and submission for God.
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks