AOL News
(Oct. 17) -- Walter Schumm knows what he's about to do is unpopular: publish a study arguing that gay parents are more likely to raise gay children than straight parents. But the Kansas State University family studies professor has a detailed analysis that past almost aggressively ideological researchers never had.
When one such researcher, Paul Cameron, published a paper in 2006 arguing that children of gay parents were more likely to be gay themselves, the response from the academic press was virulent, to say nothing of the popular press; the Southern Poverty Law Center, for instance, equated Cameron to a Nazi.
The gay press, as far back as the 1980s, labeled Cameron "the most dangerous anti-gay voice in America." Though Cameron was the first to publish papers on the dangers of secondhand smoke, the scientific community has abandoned him. The American Psychological Association long since dropped him from its membership for an "ethical" violation.
Today, Cameron is the founder and chairman of the Family Research Institute, whose "overriding mission" is to publish "empirical research on issues that threaten the traditional family, particularly homosexuality."
Schumm doesn't go for that sort of research. After Cameron's 2006 paper, Schumm listened as the academic community stated certainty of two things: Cameron was an idiotic bigot; and the existing literature showed little to no societal, cultural or parental influence on sexual orientation.
Schumm began investigating the second premise. "I just want to know the truth about something," he tells AOL News. And he found it strange that parents can influence so many facets of their children's lives -- but not in any way their sexual orientation.
Lawyers for the state of Florida heard of Schumm's fledgling research and invited him in 2008 to testify in a case. The state's Department of Children and Families was attempting to uphold a ban on gay and lesbian parents adopting children. Schumm's testimony actually ended up aiding the gay parents in the trial.
He said: "Gay parents can be good foster parents," and "The decision to permit homosexuals to adopt is best made by the judiciary on a case by case basis."
Schumm tells AOL News that he agreed to testify as one of the state's witnesses only if his evidence was not "slanted" for or against gay rights.
But also in his testimony was an inkling of the robust research Schumm has just completed. His study on sexual orientation, out next month, says that gay and lesbian parents are far more likely to have children who become gay. "I'm trying to prove that it's not 100 percent genetic," Schumm tells AOL News.
His study is a meta-analysis of existing work. First, Schumm extrapolated data from 10 books on gay parenting; Cameron, for what it's worth, had only looked at three, and offered no statistical analysis in his paper. Schumm skewed his data so that only self-identified gay and lesbian children would be labeled as such.
This is important because sometimes Schumm would come across a passage of children of gay parents who said they were "adamant about not declaring their sexual orientation at all." These people would be labeled straight, even though the passage's implication was that they were gay.
Schumm concluded that children of lesbian parents identified themselves as gay 31 percent of the time; children of gay men had gay children 19 percent of the time, and children of a lesbian mother and gay father had at least one gay child 25 percent of the time.
Furthermore, when the study restricted the results so that they included only children in their 20s -- presumably after they'd been able to work out any adolescent confusion or experimentation -- 58 percent of the children of lesbians called themselves gay, and 33 percent of the children of gay men called themselves gay. (About 5 to 10 percent of the children of straight parents call themselves gay, Schumm says.)
Schumm next went macro, poring over an anthropological study of various cultures' acceptance of homosexuality. He found that when communities welcome gays and lesbians, "89 percent feature higher rates of homosexual behavior."
Finally, Schumm looked at the existing academic studies, the ones used to pillory Cameron's work. In all there are 26 such studies. Schumm ran the numbers from them and concluded that, surprisingly, 20 percent of the kids of gay parents were gay themselves. When children only 17 or older were included in the analysis, 28 percent were gay.
Abbie Goldberg is a psychology professor at Clark University, and the author of "Lesbian and Gay Parents and Their Children: Research on the Family Life Cycle," which this year won the Distinguished Book Award from the APA. She hasn't read Schumm's study, only seen the abstract. But she says, in general, that a meta-analysis of this nature relies on sample sizes that are often too small and may furthermore brim with participants whose perspective is firmly aligned with the LGBT community. In other words, they're aware of these sorts of studies and seek them out.
"The fundamental problem with this [type of meta-analysis] is such samples tend to be biased," Goldberg tells AOL News.
Schumm says he guarded against that by seeking out so many different works. And across all his data -- the 10 books he consulted, the anthropological study, the scientific articles -- he noticed how lesbians begat more lesbians. In Schumm's study, he quotes from the extant literature the stories of young women, describing how being gay was never frowned upon in their household, and so that "option" was available to them. That said, Schumm also finds evidence of gay mothers pushing their daughters, upset over a relationship with a man, to "try out women."
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But couldn't gay men also tell their sons this? Yes, but Schumm tells AOL News that most gay men have at some point been with a woman, so they understand why their sons might date them. Whereas the literature shows some lesbians "have a hatred of men that's intense," Schumm says.
Schumm says it shouldn't have taken until 2010 to do the meta-analysis. Too often his colleagues impose "liberal or progressive political interpretations" on their studies, which inhibit further inquiry. "It's kind of sad," he tells AOL News.
As if expecting a political backlash himself, Schumm concludes his study with a quote from philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. "All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
format_quote Originally Posted by abdulmājid
How can a homosexual couple have children?
they adopt or get donor egg or donor sperm a surrogate womb..
They want to fulfill the laws of nature as there is no escaping the human condition but in a skewed fashion!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
format_quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel_B
Gay parents creating gay children = one of the biggest myths surrounding the subject of homosexuality. Next you'll be saying AIDS is their fault.
A 'study' by its very definition is a detailed scientific piece and subject to analysis that can be cross referenced with existing data and numerical values. Perhaps when you familiarize yourself with facts and how science works in general in lieu of blind emotionality you'd not be making such a fool of yourself on every thread. Also this has nothing to do with AIDS?HIV or any disease that plagues the gay population. This study purely looks at the percentage of gay parents who also beget gay off-spring.
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
I feel sorry for all those children who end up raised by gay parents.
It must be a trauma. Being bullied must be the norm for them.
Yes - and what about heterosexual parents who have a gay child? Do they not sometimes try to influence the child's sexual orientation?
If we can show that sexuality is dependent to some degree on the level of parental sex hormones and that there are other factors involved, then we might say it is a case of nature + nurture.
I'd be interested to know how you regard heterosexual parents, who deny their child's sexuality and attempt to push their orientation upon them?
For me, the questions are very clear. Supposing this study successfully proves what Walter Schumm theorises? What kind of other conclusions are we expected to draw from it?
You see - while it might be interesting - a biological study like this would have no actual bearing on a society which champions the right of the individual to act upon their preferences, regardless of whether those preferences be biologically inherited or learned.
Unless we're all agreed that homosexuality is wrong, evil, dangerous, immoral, detrimental to the health (or whatever other non-rational interpretation we care to expound) then of prime importance here would be to examine the level of actual choice young people are given as they enter puberty, as given to them by their parents.
In fact, if it were to uncover an element of pushing (to be gay or straight - either way) by the parents, then this would also go for those heterosexual parents who have begotten, quite by chance, their own biological child who is prone to be gay.
In which case, such a finding might go some way towards making society a better place for these people - but only if the results are used in that way.
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
Yes - and what about heterosexual parents who have a gay child? Do they not sometimes try to influence the child's sexual orientation?
Ezekial, you're on a forum frequented by religious people who hold that homosexuality is a sin and don't really consider it something people are 'born' with. You should respect this view, as it is very unlikely to change.
Of course straight parents will influence their children to be straight too. Those relgious parents who consider it a sin in the first place, will undoubtedly teach their kids the same. I, as a Muslim (and I believe most of the Muslims here included), will not cosider anything wrong with this approach. This is something you simply will have to agree to disagree on.
Yes, well... surely, in that case, it's of prime importance to address that bullying and put a stop to it... don't you think?
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
format_quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel_B
Yes, well... surely, in that case, it's of prime importance to address that bullying and put a stop to it... don't you think?
Sadly bullying will never be stopped by legislation. It can only be stopped by education and giving people valid reasons not to bully. However, the potential for a person becoming a target for bullies can be reduced through legislation by eliminating the possibility of Gay couples to adopt or be surrogate parents.
Why would that be an unfair law. Does it differ from the law that requires intermarried cousins to not have children, in most states that allow cousins to marry?
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
Ezekial, you're on a forum frequented by religious people who hold that homosexuality is a sin and don't really consider it something people are 'born' with. You should respect this view, as it is very unlikely to change.
I'm sorry... I don't quite understand. How does the unlikelyness of a view to change make it respectable? Just curious.
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
the potential for a person becoming a target for bullies can be reduced through legislation by eliminating the possibility of Gay couples to adopt or be surrogate parents.
Why, yes! That is of course quite correct! Thousands of muslims come into the UK each year and sometimes they are bullied by racist skinheads. Tell me, which would be a better option in your estimation... Deal with the skinheads or eliminate the possibility of muslims migrating to the UK? I mean, the latter would protect them from bullying... erm... wouldn't it?
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
Say you were an avid PC fan. Would you go to a forum of Mac users and say, 'you should stop liking macs becuase I believe it is wrong'?
No, you wouldn't (unless you are a troll).
Any stay you have on a Mac forum ought to be one of cordial 'agreement to disagree'. Same thing here. You think homosexuality is ok? Fine, good for you. Muslims abide by Islamic law and Islamic law considers it a sin. It is unlikely that anything you say would alter the legal position on this matter. So what are you left to do but agree to disagree? Anything else on your part is simply disrespectful and down right rude. It's manners, I call for.
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
Look man, simple manners wouldn't go amiss. Granted, Mac exmaple was poor. Didn't have much time cos I had to dash. Can't you see that you are simply insulting our religion by telling us 'hey, guess what? this shouldn't really be a sin'. Can you really not see how that is considered rude? I can understand if you were talking to your buddies but to our faces, in our 'home', you come and insult what we believe. Really poor manners.
Now don't get me wrong here... I'd rather deal with the racists. Now... tell me... do you respect that view?
Of course I'd have no problem with you dealing with racists. Why would I?
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
format_quote Originally Posted by Ezekiel_B
And if the study shows that this is the case - what's it to you?
What do you care what it is to me? This is the health and science section, meant to engage amongst other things new research of whatever nature that is making current news!
Do you know how to articulate your needs or just enjoy wasting web space?
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
I wish folks would stay on topic, This thread is about statistics dealing with homosexuality-- Not bullying! I believe a bullying thread already exists. Please delete off topic posts!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids
i thought the mac example was pretty good. everybody is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. Ezekiel, you're insulting muslims coming here, telling us what we should believe and what we shouldn't. haven't you got anything better to do?
i don't know what the point of this discussion is. I haven't read all the posts but i think it's a useless discussion.
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