Hello! My name is Brenda. I am not a Muslim, however I am interested in learning more about the Islamic faith. I am a firm believer of respecting ALL faiths. I am, myself, a Roman Catholic...not a strict Catholic, but very comfortable in how I practice my belief in God. Although there may be many differences in our faiths and cultures, we do have one important commonality: we believe in the same God. God has many faces. I'll admit, I grew up imagining God as an old white man with long white hair and a long white beard. According to the Catholic Bible, God made us in his own image. To me, I find that statement amazing. All you have to do is turn on a news station on television and see how different everyone is visually. So, my interpretation of this is that being made in God's image means that he made us ALL human beings. One of Morgan Freeman's lines in the movie "Robin Hood" has always stuck in my mind. He was playing the part of a Moor and an English boy asked him why he had spots on his face. He answered: "Because God loves wondrous diversity." Or something to that effect. :sunny:
Anyway, I found this forum looking for an answer to a question about the Islamic faith...especially after the recent killing of a woman in Afghanistan by men of the Taliban. The incident went against what I had learned (in a Roman Catholic college) about Islam. I decided to join the forum, not because I want to convert, but to hear from the mouths of people who are Muslim what their faith is. I hope to learn a lot from you and if you have any questions about the Catholic Church, I will be more than happy to answer them. For those here who do not live in the United States, please do not confuse the Catholic Church with what the United States politicians are referring to as the "Christian" majority. There are MANY Christian churches here (ie Baptist, Methodist, Luthern, etc...). For a Catholic, I'm very open-minded, but I do NOT consider myself part of that majority.
Thanks for taking the time to read this!! I look forward to learning from everyone!
aboard ... i wouldn't believe anything about the taliban from western media ...after all they are at war which takes many forms unless you hear it from the horse's mouth!
Great introduction! And welcome here. Feel free to ask questions (:
And He gives you of all that you ask Him; and if you count Allah's favors, you will not be able to number them; most surely man is very unjust, very ungrateful.
even if that woman is guilty of commiting adultery , punishment is lashes and not to shoot . Another question : where is the man ? How come we only see women are getting punishment and there is no report of punishing a man .
24. Suran Nur ( light ) , verse 2
The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication -- - flog each of them with a hundred stripes:
let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day:
and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
According to Hadith , if she is married , then punishment is stoning to death .
Non Muslims , don't forget that the same punishment is prescribed in your holy books.
...The Bible decrees the death sentence for both the adulterer and the adulteress (Lev. 20:10) . Islam also equally punishes both the adulterer and the adulteress (Quran 24:2).
Torah Punishment for Adultery is Stoning to Death Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 6.79, Narrated by Abdullah ibn Umar
The Jews brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from among them who had committed illegal sexual intercourse.
The Prophet said to them, "How do you usually punish the one amongst you who has committed illegal sexual intercourse?" They replied, "We blacken their faces with coal and beat them." He said, "Don't you find the order of Ar-Rajm (i.e. stoning to death) in the Torah?"
They replied, "We do not find anything in it." '
Abdullah bin Salam (after hearing this conversation) said to them, "You have told a lie! Bring here the Torah and recite it if you are truthful." (So the Jews brought the Torah).
And the religious teacher who was teaching it to them, put his hand over the Verse of Ar-Rajm and started reading what was written above and below the place hidden with his hand, but he did not read the Verse of Ar-Rajm. '
Abdullah bin Salam removed his (i.e. the teacher's) hand from the Verse of Ar-Rajm and said, "What is this?"
So when the Jews saw that Verse, they said, "This is the Verse of Ar-Rajm."
So the Prophet ordered the two adulterers to be stoned to death, and they were stoned to death near the place where biers used to be placed near the Mosque.
I saw her companion (i.e. the adulterer) bowing over her so as to protect her from the stones.
The story is all on CNN. I saw it today. Comes with a video.
Firstly, THANK YOU for the welcome! Being human, there is always the apprehension of joining people whose beliefs you don't know a lot about. So, again, thank you!
As to the video I saw earlier, this is the exact one! I was horrified!
I have a hard time believing ANY media story, whether it's Western or Eastern. It seems to be all about sensationalism. The story goes out before facts are checked.
Firstly, THANK YOU for the welcome! Being human, there is always the apprehension of joining people whose beliefs you don't know a lot about. So, again, thank you!
I know the feeling. I wasn't always a Muslim and haven't been one for very long either.
I was horrified by the video too but one thing I noticed with CNN and other American news outlets is that it does a wonderful job making Muslims/Islam look bad all together by leaving out crucial details and ostracizing traditional Islamic beliefs while favoring the beliefs of deviants and extremists. And sometimes they go so far as to make those who have incorrect beliefs that are not in line with Islam at all to be the victims without giving the other side of the story. Saying they are being "persecuted". I used to fall for it every time. It's just wrong and awful journalism.
even if that woman is guilty of commiting adultery , punishment is lashes and not to shoot . Another question : where is the man ? How come we only see women are getting punishment and there is no report of punishing a man .
According to CNN, the 2 men who were having the disagreement over her decided to "save face" and punish her. After they killed her, another member of the Taliban supposedly killed the 2 men. Is it "normal", if a woman is being punished for adultery (if being punished for adultery according to the Quran) for men to cheer it on? Or in this case, the killing of the woman?
Your quote of the Bible is correct, however, in the New Testament, John Chapter 8, Verses 2 through 11, it is written:
2 At daybreak he appeared in the Temple again; and as all the people came to him, he sat down and began to teach them. 3 The scribes and Pharisees brought a woman along who had been caught committing adultery; and making her stand there in the middle 4 they said to Jesus, 'Master, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery, 5 and in the Law Moses has ordered us to stone women of this kind. What have you got to say?' 6 They asked him this as a test, looking for an accusation to use against him. But Jesus bent down and started writing on the ground with his finger. 7 As they persisted with their question, he straightened up and said, 'Let the one among you who is guiltless be the first to throw a stone at her.' 8 Then he bent down and continued writing on the ground. 9 When they heard this they went away one by one, beginning with the eldest, until the last one had gone and Jesus was left alone with the woman, who remained in the middle. 10 Jesus again straightened up and said, 'Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?' 11 'No one, sir,' she replied. 'Neither do I condemn you,' said Jesus. 'Go away, and from this moment sin no more.'
I understand that Jesus, in your faith is a prophet. Am I right? Christians, for the most part, follow the New Testament, not exclusively, we do read the Old Testament as well. The best way I can think of to explain the reason we don't follow what is said in Lev. is this way: Since Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God, what was written before his birth is over-ruled by what he said. So if Lev. says the punishment is stoning in the Old Testament, then when Jesus admonishes it in the New Testament, it is no longer the punishment. Goodness, I hope that sounded correct. It's 2am here and past my bedtime.
Exactly! When I was growing up, my mother taught me not to believe EVERYTHING I read. It's sad to say that now it's changed to don't believe everything the media reports.
Christians, for the most part, follow the New Testament, not exclusively, we do read the Old Testament as well. The best way I can think of to explain the reason we don't follow what is said in Lev. is this way: Since Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God, what was written before his birth is over-ruled by what he said. So if Lev. says the punishment is stoning in the Old Testament, then when Jesus admonishes it in the New Testament, it is no longer the punishment. Goodness, I hope that sounded correct. It's 2am here and past my bedtime.
I disagree with these statements, but welcome to the forum!
My soul waits silently for God;
From Him comes my salvation.
Welcome to the forums and please guys refrain from going off topic. If you feel a discussion is in order please start a thread.
I think it's good that you refuse to jump on the hatewagon. I honestly think that many of the people who are on that wagon are people who sadly don't know any muslims at all or perhaps the ones they know don't exactly have the best of behaviour.
I disagree with these statements, but welcome to the forum!
Thank you for the welcome! I'm what I like to call a "spiritual" Catholic...and apparently I did a lousy job of explaining myself. (What else is new...at least in my life. ) Maybe I can clarify better now that it's daytime... As Christians, one of our main beliefs is that Jesus is the Son of God and He died for our sins. The historical record of Jesus is in the New Testament. The Old Testament is a historical record written mostly by Jewish men who were, for the most part, Prophets and they wrote about Adam and Eve, Moses, etc...including accounts of the coming of the Savior. So, I guess my end question would be, since we are both Christian, would you follow what was said about adulterous men and women in the Old Testament or would you forgive the adulteress like Jesus did in the New Testament?
I hope that clarifies my post. However, if you still disagree, I respect that.
Welcome to the forums and please guys refrain from going off topic. If you feel a discussion is in order please start a thread.
I think it's good that you refuse to jump on the hatewagon. I honestly think that many of the people who are on that wagon are people who sadly don't know any muslims at all or perhaps the ones they know don't exactly have the best of behaviour.
Thank you for the welcome! I'm sorry if I veered of topic. Personally, I don't know if I know any Muslims other than the people I've met virtually here. Other than recognizing a Muslim woman by her clothing, you really can't point a finger and say Muslim! There is no ONE race of people or ONE nationality that defines what a Muslim looks like. But I am honest when I say I really dislike the Muslims who were responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Otherwise, I like all people...well, does family count?
Thank you for the welcome! I'm what I like to call a "spiritual" Catholic...and apparently I did a lousy job of explaining myself. (What else is new...at least in my life. ) Maybe I can clarify better now that it's daytime... As Christians, one of our main beliefs is that Jesus is the Son of God and He died for our sins. The historical record of Jesus is in the New Testament. The Old Testament is a historical record written mostly by Jewish men who were, for the most part, Prophets and they wrote about Adam and Eve, Moses, etc...including accounts of the coming of the Savior. So, I guess my end question would be, since we are both Christian, would you follow what was said about adulterous men and women in the Old Testament or would you forgive the adulteress like Jesus did in the New Testament?
I hope that clarifies my post. However, if you still disagree, I respect that.
Jesus came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. We are instructed by him to follow the law and the prophets. When Jesus showed mercy on the woman in your example, it was not to demonstrate a change in the law, but to show the men the hypocrisy of their actions. Throughout the NT Jesus points out hypocrisy and expounds upon the law. The law is not the problem, it is the condition of man's heart and his interpretation of the law that are the problems.
I know you came to discuss Islam and learn about Islam, but take a venture into the comparative religion section of the forum. There are a great many good discussions even amongst the Christians of the forum.
Welcome to the forum. I hope that you get answers to your questions straight from Muslims.
format_quote Originally Posted by BMikush
But I am honest when I say I really dislike the Muslims who were responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
Oh, do you mean the ones who went to a strip joint for lap dances the night before hijacking a plane and were yet so pious they brought a Qur'an along with them and left it behind, or the ones who frequented Las Vegas where, "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas"? Sorry, but I don't know any Muslims like that.
Speaking of the video, I remember seeing something very similar just before 9/11 (Beneath the Veil), coincidental, huh? I am sure that you realize the news and the media are propaganda tools to get people to think how someone else wants them to think. There is not 100% agreement about the punishment for adultery, but my understanding is that under certain conditions (living under an Islamic rule, sufficient proof, witnesses, confession, etc) that illicit sexual relations between people married to different partners is punishable by death under Islamic law. Likewise, murder is so punishable. One thing to remember is that punishment in this life according to Islam is an act of redemption from that sin, all according to my understanding.
I grew up as a Baptist and know relatively little about the Catholic faith except for a few conversations with 2 Catholics I work with and I went to a Catholic funeral. Yes, we both believe in One God, but our basic concepts and understandings about God are really quite different. Muslims disassociate Jesus from Allah with Qur'an 4:171 stating our belief about Jesus, "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah." My understanding is that the One to whom Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane and who is referred to throughout the NT gospels as 'Father' is Allah, pure and simple, without associating any partners with Him.
I read that this is a fabricated story and not found in old scriptures . It was added later.
I have read about this as well.
<This story, beloved for its revelation of God's mercy toward sinners, is found only in John. It was almost certainly not part of John's original Gospel. The NIV separates this passage off from the rest of the Gospel with the note, "The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53--8:11." That is, the earliest Greek manuscripts, the earliest translations and the earliest church fathers all lack reference to this story.> http://www.biblegateway.com/resource...es-Woman-Taken
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aboard ... i wouldn't believe anything about the taliban from western media ...after all they are at war which takes many forms unless you hear it from the horse's mouth!
Hello All!
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and please guys refrain from going off topic. If you feel a discussion is in order please start a thread.
) Maybe I can clarify better now that it's daytime... As Christians, one of our main beliefs is that Jesus is the Son of God and He died for our sins. The historical record of Jesus is in the New Testament. The Old Testament is a historical record written mostly by Jewish men who were, for the most part, Prophets and they wrote about Adam and Eve, Moses, etc...including accounts of the coming of the Savior. So, I guess my end question would be, since we are both Christian, would you follow what was said about adulterous men and women in the Old Testament or would you forgive the adulteress like Jesus did in the New Testament?
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