Viewpoint: History dispels the lies about Islam

[sonz]

-- A well known technique in any propaganda war is the spreading of "disinformation" about your enemy. Disinformation is the new postmodern word for lies.

If you repeat the same lies over and over again, listeners' critical thinking skills are numbed; and in the absence of any opposing argument, the lies eventually cannot be differentiated from truth.

Islam has had many enemies over the centuries and still has. One of the most persistent lies repeated by its detractors is that Muslims spread their faith by the sword.

Yet of all mainstream religions, none is more precisely documented as to its origin, revelation, message and teachings. Since its emergence through the Prophet Mohammed and his transmission of its holy book, the history of Islam has been well recorded. From the Prophet's time until today, the Koran has offered guidance and discipline for everyday life. As Islam spread, the lives and teachings of its messengers have also been documented.

As with Judaism and Christianity, the most influential and revered figures are those from the time when the faith was newly revealed; in Islam, these were Muslims who lived in the age of Prophet Mohammed and who embodied the teachings of the Koran as examples to their fellow human beings. Many of their thoughts and deeds were recorded for the benefit of future generations.

To return to the questions of whether the Koran encourages Muslims to spread their faith by force, or whether the Prophet himself set a violent example for Muslims to follow, one has only to consult the source.

The Koran is crystal clear in stating, "There is no compulsion in religion." The commandment is absolute; there are no exceptions. Coercion, compulsion, force - whatever one chooses to call it - is totally forbidden. No other holy book lays down such a clear directive to its adherents.

Believers in the world's largest Muslim country of today, Indonesia, have never in history encountered foreign Muslim soldiers on their soil. The same is true for today's Muslims in Malaysia, China, sub-Saharan Africa, the Americas, Europe and Turkey. All of these countries or regions were introduced to Islam through other Muslims, not by Muslim armies.

Even in Egypt where the earliest Muslims were mostly Arab soldiers, Islam was diffused slowly throughout the country over more than 400 years. The Egyptians loved Islam because of the values it embraced, such as justice, equality, modernity and freedom.

And in Egypt, as well as in Persia, Greater Syria, India, North Africa and Spain, converts freely accepted Islam because it offered comparatively more than other religions of the day.

During those early centuries, people who felt oppressed or restricted by the rigidity of Christian and Jewish traditions, or excluded from the caste system of Hinduism, were attracted by Islam's de-emphasis on hierarchy. They loved the Islamic teachings that God is One and the Lord of All, that humans can talk to God directly, and that there is no Original Sin - every human being is wholly accountable for his / her deeds.

So while it is true that Islam spread in some places with the speed of a bullet, no literal bullets have been involved. The whole concept of "convert or die" is utterly foreign and reprehensible to authentic Islamic beliefs and conduct. And the Koran itself further reinforces the sanctity of all human lives in saying that to kill another person is as evil as killing the entire human race.

Muslims do not blame any religion for the atrocities committed by those claiming to be its adherents.

Thus, Muslims do not blame Judaism itself for injustices committed by Jews against Palestinians. Nor do they blame Christianity per se for the crimes committed by Church-sanctioned medieval Crusades; for atrocities committed during the conquest of Spain by Christian armies and the subsequent persecution and expulsion of Muslims; nor for the horrors of the Inquisition, the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre or any number of similar tragedies.

All three faiths, rooted in Abrahamic tradition, teach similar values of non-violence, justice and equality. Those who take up the "cause" of any faith through violent means are in effect blasphemers of it.

The earliest Muslims in Arabia were persecuted and subjected to torture. They fled for their lives from Mecca to Medina, but their pagan enemies followed, determined to annihilate them. Then and only then, did Muslims take up arms in self-defense. This was not a religious war, however, but rather a forced political conflict in which the rich and powerful of sixth-century AD Arabia perceived their status being challenged.

The Muslims' aim was not to convert their pagan countrymen, but to defend themselves; similarly, the anti-Muslim pagans were not interested in suppressing Islam itself, but in subjugating its believers through political power.

When the Prophet Mohammed and his followers returned peacefully to Mecca in triumph, he granted pardon to the same people who had persecuted and waged war against him and his fellow Muslims.

This humane and generous behavior reflected the teaching of many Koranic verses that stress the importance of courtesy, politeness and civility, even where there has been severe conflict: "And the true servants of the God of Mercy are those who walk upon the earth humbly; and when the ignorant address them, reply 'Peace'; and they pass the night praying to their Lord, prostrating and standing." (25:63 - 64)

Mohammed Al Masry is a professor of electrical and computer engineering at the University of Waterloo and national president of the Canadian Islamic Congress. Acknowledgement to Media Monitors Network (MMN)

[Christian_dove]

Believers in the world's largest Muslim country of today, Indonesia, have never in history encountered foreign Muslim soldiers on their soil. The same is true for today's Muslims in Malaysia, China, sub-Saharan Africa, the Americas, Europe and Turkey. All of these countries or regions were introduced to Islam through other Muslims, not by Muslim armies.

True, but neither are no longer known for the "freedom" that Islam holds "sacred" (your words, not mine..). Actually Indonesia is turning backwards... Women there are not to found of the regime, it seems... I had a girlfriend from Indonesia, I've been there, I know the country. Do you? You can check the internett for photos from Poso oktober 2005, where young females where beheaded for being christians... And a friend of mine is from Malaysia. I've been there too. If you think christians and jews are rigid, you haven't seen anything yet..

Even in Egypt where the earliest Muslims were mostly Arab soldiers, Islam was diffused slowly throughout the country over more than 400 years. The Egyptians loved Islam because of the values it embraced, such as justice, equality, modernity and freedom.

Not much freedom their either... In fact IT IS A REGIME!

And in Egypt, as well as in Persia, Greater Syria, India, North Africa and Spain, converts freely accepted Islam because it offered comparatively more than other religions of the day.

Same with all these places, most countries who were unlucky enough to hold on to Islam are now countries where people are oppressed by fanatic leaders. Not Spain, they are catholic...

During those early centuries, people who felt oppressed or restricted by the rigidity of Christian and Jewish traditions, or excluded from the caste system of Hinduism, were attracted by Islam's de-emphasis on hierarchy. They loved the Islamic teachings that God is One and the Lord of All, that humans can talk to God directly, and that there is no Original Sin - every human being is wholly accountable for his / her deeds.

The rigidity of Christian and Jewish traditions? Really? Yet the only countries where people are truly free and can say whatever they want without risking their lives, are the "rigid" ones... How peculiar...

So while it is true that Islam spread in some places with the speed of a bullet, no literal bullets have been involved. The whole concept of "convert or die" is utterly foreign and reprehensible to authentic Islamic beliefs and conduct. And the Koran itself further reinforces the sanctity of all human lives in saying that to kill another person is as evil as killing the entire human race.

Well, I see not much difference wether you chose to oppress and kill people BEFORE you have the power or after. Islamic leaders tend to do the latter.... Just look at Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Somalia, etc, etc, etc..

Muslims do not blame any religion for the atrocities committed by those claiming to be its adherents.

No wonder, as most of the religious atrocities on this planet is done by muslims themselves.. And many muslims hate christians and jews and deny them the right to worship their own God. Just look at the arab countries and read the reports by for instance Amnesty International.

Thus, Muslims do not blame Judaism itself for injustices committed by Jews against Palestinians. Nor do they blame Christianity per se for the crimes committed by Church-sanctioned medieval Crusades; for atrocities committed during the conquest of Spain by Christian armies and the subsequent persecution and expulsion of Muslims; nor for the horrors of the Inquisition, the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre or any number of similar tragedies.

The palestinians can blame themselves. They have been given several offers by the isralelis, (several more than they deserved), yet they don't want peace.

All three faiths, rooted in Abrahamic tradition, teach similar values of non-violence, justice and equality. Those who take up the "cause" of any faith through violent means are in effect blasphemers of it.

Teaching is one thing. Living it is something quite different.

The earliest Muslims in Arabia were persecuted and subjected to torture. They fled for their lives from Mecca to Medina, but their pagan enemies followed, determined to annihilate them. Then and only then, did Muslims take up arms in self-defense. This was not a religious war, however, but rather a forced political conflict in which the rich and powerful of sixth-century AD Arabia perceived their status being challenged.

That's a lie. Several muslim countries have attacked Israel and not only once... And they will continue to do so..

The Muslims' aim was not to convert their pagan countrymen, but to defend themselves; similarly, the anti-Muslim pagans were not interested in suppressing Islam itself, but in subjugating its believers through political power.

So, your point being?

When the Prophet Mohammed and his followers returned peacefully to Mecca in triumph, he granted pardon to the same people who had persecuted and waged war against him and his fellow Muslims.

Perhaps, but that certainly isn't the case today.

This humane and generous behavior reflected the teaching of many Koranic verses that stress the importance of courtesy, politeness and civility, even where there has been severe conflict: "And the true servants of the God of Mercy are those who walk upon the earth humbly; and when the ignorant address them, reply 'Peace'; and they pass the night praying to their Lord, prostrating and standing." (25:63 - 64)

I think you should start a new religion, and call yourselves something else than Islam. Because many representatives of your faith is anything but polite and sivil...

Mohammed Al Masry is a professor of electrical and computer engineering at the University of Waterloo and national president of the Canadian Islamic Congress. Acknowledgement to Media Monitors Network (MMN)

I think he should stick to his engineering. My personal opinion is that this whole article is propaganda and rubbish.

[Christian_dove]

This video is from Al-jazeera, a discussion between Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan and Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli.. Off course Wafa Sultan has received plenty of death threats after this little dispute...

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/200...050wmv&ak=null

[sonz]

christian dove

ur so full of hate against islam.

but im not shocked cuz allah azwajjal says

"They intend to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will complete His light even though the disbelievers hate (it)"
(Surah As-Saff 61:8).



"It is He who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, so that He may make it victorious over all other religions, even though the disbelievers detest it"

(Surah As-Saff 61:9).



allah is the source of guidance

[Christian_dove]

I am not hateful at all. But this article from an engineer is basically just rubbish packed in flowery paper. He presents some of the worst regimes in the world and make them sound like they are the garden of Eden. They are not. The worst part is that many muslims may actually believe this nonsense. And I am not a disbeliever, I am a christian, I have my own faith.

[Malsidabym]

I have not read the above mentioned article ( I will later) and therefore am not picking either side, but would just like to add that electrical engineers are good sources to quote when disputing electricity. Not so much for historical and religious topics.

[Christian_dove]

I have not read the above mentioned article ( I will later) and therefore am not picking either side, but would just like to add that electrical engineers are good sources to quote when disputing electricity. Not so much for historical and religious topics.

He he.. I agree.. At least in this case.

Just to mention it, I actually had a very good time in Indonesia, the people, both muslims and non-muslims were generally very friendly. In Malaysia I also met some good people, however, racism was abundant. Some of my malay friends were threatened just because they spent time with me.. I was (together with 2 dutch/asian friends) even attacked one evening by a crowd of young men for no apparent reason. Not a very pleasant experience, I can't say I was terrified by the rather small malays (I am pretty tall) but I have travelled a lot and I've rarely had trouble like this anywhere else. A taxi stopped in front of us and a man jumped out, shouting and waving his arms. Showing his police badge to the crowd while shouting (in english) "Don't ****ing hit me, I'm a police officer!!!" didn't help much, but at least he managed to draw the attention away from us long enough for us to get into the cab... The most pathetic thing about these men was the fact that even though they obviously hated everyone from the west, they still wore american jeans and t-shirts with rock bands like "Iron Maiden", etc... How pathetic is that.. He..

[kadafi]

Am I the only one who noticed that the article refers to the historical spread of Islaam and not the status-quo of some Muslim countries.

My my

[kadafi]

Same with all these places, most countries who were unlucky enough to hold on to Islam are now countries where people are oppressed by fanatic leaders. Not Spain, they are catholic...

I have to comment on these rather spurious argument.

Anyone who is acquitanted with the history of Andalusia (modern-day Spain) would know the horrendous Spanish Inquisition which caused the Muslims to leave Andalusia or be forced to convert to Christianity.. An exerpt from an article that I wrote:

...were coercively, and insincerely, converted to Christianity. It does not come as a suprise since Christianity gained most of its followers through forced conversions. Compton's Concise Encyclopaedia states:

This was a quasi-ecclesiastical tribunal established in 1478 by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella primarily to examine converted Jews, and later converted Muslims, and punish those who were insincere in the conversion.... The Spanish Inquisition was much harsher than the medieval Inquisition and the death penalty was more often exacted, sometimes in mass autos-da-fe. It judged cases of bigamy, seduction, usury, and other crimes, and was active in Spain and her colonies. Estimates of its victims vary widely, ranging from less than 4,000 to more than 30,000 during its existence...[26]

Encyclopaedia Britannica, states:

The Inquisition's secret procedures, its eagerness to accept denunciations, its use of torture, the absence of counsel for the accused, the lack of any right to confront hostile witnesses, and the practice of confiscating the property of those who were condemned and sharing it between the Inquisition, the crown, and the accusers—all this inspired great terror, as indeed it was meant to do.[27]

The only sole reason why the Muslims surrendered peacefully was due the fact that the Christian officials made a binding treaty with the Muslims which is also known as the ‘treaty of 1492’. In that treaty, the Christian officials promised religious tolerance to the Muslims and the Jews. It was an attempt to win religious tolerance for all the Muslims and Jews left in Spain. Since the Muslims were no longer the rulers of Andalusia, they hoped at least that they would be permitted to worship their Lord, The One God, in the manner presented by the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). However, in 1499 CE, Ximenes initiated a campaign to coerce the Muslims of Southern Muslim Spain to Christianity. P. de Gayangos writes:

As a result of his endeavours, it is reported that on 8th December 1499 about three thousand Moors were baptized by him and a leading mosque in Granada was converted into a church. 'Converts' were encouraged to surrender their Islamic books, several thousands of which were destroyed by Ximenes in a public bonfire. A few rare books on medicine were kept aside for the University of Alcala.[28]

The Muslims were dragged through the streets of the Muslim quarter for rejecting to adopt the Christian faith. Consequently, the Muslim initiated a riot protesting that the treaty was not honoured. P. de Gayangos further writes:

Ximenes immediately denounced the uprising as a rebellion, and claimed that by this the Moors had forfeited all their rights under the terms of capitulation. They should therefore be given the choice between baptism and expulsion. The government agreed with his arguments, and Ximenes then began the mass baptism of the population of Granada, most of whom preferred this fate to the more hazardous one of deportation to Africa. The speed with which the baptisms were carried out meant that there was no time in which to instruct the Moors in the fundamentals of their new religion, so that inevitably most of the new converts became Christian only in name.[29]

Additionally, it has been estimated that at least 50,000 Muslims were forced to convert in the mass baptism of Granada by Ximenes. A small amount of Jews and Muslims were deported to North-Africa. The tolerance of the Muslims for the Jews never decreased, so they aided the Jews in the progress of the deportation. In spite of the circumstances, a new Golden Age flourished in North-Africa. In Andarax, mosques were blown up with gun-powder and at Belfique, all the Muslim men were put to the sword whilst the women were taken as slaves. The Muslim children were separated from their parents and handed over to the Church in order to be brought up as Catholics. The Arabic books including the Glorious Qur’an were collected and burnt. H. Kamen writes:

Since the majority of Muslims had been 'converted', the offer of emigration was an empty one, and the 'legal equality' granted by Ferdinand was but a mockery of the terms of the Treaty of Granada which he had so blatantly permitted to be broken. Behind the words of conciliation and peace, the general intention of the Church to eliminate the practice of Islam was unmistakable, and now that the Muslims of southern Andalusia, or the Moriscos as they were called, were within the jurisdiction of the Spanish Inquisition, the Inquisitors embarked on the task of detecting 'relapsed heretics' and secret Muslims. The communities of Muslims which had survived the suppression of the rebellion, or reformed after it, were repeatedly harassed by the Inquisitors.[30]

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...-crusades.html

I think you should start a new religion, and call yourselves something else than Islam. Because many representatives of your faith is anything but polite and sivil...

You have just accused the majority of the Ummah (Muslim Nation) of lacking politeness and civility. Such statements of animosity are not welcomed here. Consider this as a warning.

No wonder, as most of the religious atrocities on this planet is done by muslims themselves.

This statement goes against what history has witnessed.

[Zulkiflim]

This video is from Al-jazeera, a discussion between Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan and Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli.. Off course Wafa Sultan has received plenty of death threats after this little dispute...

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/200...050wmv&ak=null

Salaam,

The woman views are trully one sided.
She quotes the Quran to prove what she want.
Wihout understadning.
Nor researching the menaing of the words.

Her words are as one who follows passion but not knowledge.
Inshallah,she will get what she deserves.

[north_malaysian]

He he.. I agree.. At least in this case.

Just to mention it, I actually had a very good time in Indonesia, the people, both muslims and non-muslims were generally very friendly. In Malaysia I also met some good people, however, racism was abundant. Some of my malay friends were threatened just because they spent time with me.. I was (together with 2 dutch/asian friends) even attacked one evening by a crowd of young men for no apparent reason. Not a very pleasant experience, I can't say I was terrified by the rather small malays (I am pretty tall) but I have travelled a lot and I've rarely had trouble like this anywhere else. A taxi stopped in front of us and a man jumped out, shouting and waving his arms. Showing his police badge to the crowd while shouting (in english) "Don't ****ing hit me, I'm a police officer!!!" didn't help much, but at least he managed to draw the attention away from us long enough for us to get into the cab... The most pathetic thing about these men was the fact that even though they obviously hated everyone from the west, they still wore american jeans and t-shirts with rock bands like "Iron Maiden", etc... How pathetic is that.. He..

I'm in Malaysia, I never see crowd attacking a westerner. It's not a problem for Malays to speak with Westerners or whosoever in Malaysia. Which part of Malaysia you've been?

Racism is there but only against immigrants especially Indonesians, Bangladeshis and Africans.

Maybe you have met those Neo Nazi Malays. With their stupid 'BROWN POWER' slogan and yeah, they're skinheaded too. They always wear black boots with brown shoelace. But I think they're more racist toward non
Brown Malays (like me)ffended: I might be fair skin and 6 ft tall but it doesnt mean I am not a Malay. Officially I am a Malay. Even though most of my DNA comes from Thailand, Arabia and Holland!

[Christian_dove]

I'm in Malaysia, I never see crowd attacking a westerner. It's not a problem for Malays to speak with Westerners or whosoever in Malaysia. Which part of Malaysia you've been?

Racism is there but only against immigrants especially Indonesians, Bangladeshis and Africans.

Maybe you have met those Neo Nazi Malays. With their stupid 'BROWN POWER' slogan and yeah, they're skinheaded too. They always wear black boots with brown shoelace. But I think they're more racist toward non
Brown Malays (like me)ffended: I might be fair skin and 6 ft tall but it doesnt mean I am not a Malay. Officially I am a Malay. Even though most of my DNA comes from Thailand, Arabia and Holland!

The racist incidents were in Kuala Lumpur. It happened several times, but I guess this is a big city phenomena, and not normal in the countryside..

[root]

A well known technique in any propaganda war is the spreading of "disinformation" about your enemy. Disinformation is the new postmodern word for lies.

Disinformation is not a new concept, this article is prity rubbish. Disinformation has been around since man was first able to even think and is littered throughout our history.

[Christian_dove]

I have to comment on these rather spurious argument.

Anyone who is acquitanted with the history of Andalusia (modern-day Spain) would know the horrendous Spanish Inquisition which caused the Muslims to leave Andalusia or be forced to convert to Christianity.. An exerpt from an article that I wrote:

...were coercively, and insincerely, converted to Christianity. It does not come as a suprise since Christianity gained most of its followers through forced conversions. Compton's Concise Encyclopaedia states:

This was a quasi-ecclesiastical tribunal established in 1478 by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella primarily to examine converted Jews, and later converted Muslims, and punish those who were insincere in the conversion.... The Spanish Inquisition was much harsher than the medieval Inquisition and the death penalty was more often exacted, sometimes in mass autos-da-fe. It judged cases of bigamy, seduction, usury, and other crimes, and was active in Spain and her colonies. Estimates of its victims vary widely, ranging from less than 4,000 to more than 30,000 during its existence...[26]

Encyclopaedia Britannica, states:

The Inquisition's secret procedures, its eagerness to accept denunciations, its use of torture, the absence of counsel for the accused, the lack of any right to confront hostile witnesses, and the practice of confiscating the property of those who were condemned and sharing it between the Inquisition, the crown, and the accusers—all this inspired great terror, as indeed it was meant to do.[27]

The only sole reason why the Muslims surrendered peacefully was due the fact that the Christian officials made a binding treaty with the Muslims which is also known as the ‘treaty of 1492’. In that treaty, the Christian officials promised religious tolerance to the Muslims and the Jews. It was an attempt to win religious tolerance for all the Muslims and Jews left in Spain. Since the Muslims were no longer the rulers of Andalusia, they hoped at least that they would be permitted to worship their Lord, The One God, in the manner presented by the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). However, in 1499 CE, Ximenes initiated a campaign to coerce the Muslims of Southern Muslim Spain to Christianity. P. de Gayangos writes:

As a result of his endeavours, it is reported that on 8th December 1499 about three thousand Moors were baptized by him and a leading mosque in Granada was converted into a church. 'Converts' were encouraged to surrender their Islamic books, several thousands of which were destroyed by Ximenes in a public bonfire. A few rare books on medicine were kept aside for the University of Alcala.[28]

The Muslims were dragged through the streets of the Muslim quarter for rejecting to adopt the Christian faith. Consequently, the Muslim initiated a riot protesting that the treaty was not honoured. P. de Gayangos further writes:

Ximenes immediately denounced the uprising as a rebellion, and claimed that by this the Moors had forfeited all their rights under the terms of capitulation. They should therefore be given the choice between baptism and expulsion. The government agreed with his arguments, and Ximenes then began the mass baptism of the population of Granada, most of whom preferred this fate to the more hazardous one of deportation to Africa. The speed with which the baptisms were carried out meant that there was no time in which to instruct the Moors in the fundamentals of their new religion, so that inevitably most of the new converts became Christian only in name.[29]

Additionally, it has been estimated that at least 50,000 Muslims were forced to convert in the mass baptism of Granada by Ximenes. A small amount of Jews and Muslims were deported to North-Africa. The tolerance of the Muslims for the Jews never decreased, so they aided the Jews in the progress of the deportation. In spite of the circumstances, a new Golden Age flourished in North-Africa. In Andarax, mosques were blown up with gun-powder and at Belfique, all the Muslim men were put to the sword whilst the women were taken as slaves. The Muslim children were separated from their parents and handed over to the Church in order to be brought up as Catholics. The Arabic books including the Glorious Qur’an were collected and burnt. H. Kamen writes:

Since the majority of Muslims had been 'converted', the offer of emigration was an empty one, and the 'legal equality' granted by Ferdinand was but a mockery of the terms of the Treaty of Granada which he had so blatantly permitted to be broken. Behind the words of conciliation and peace, the general intention of the Church to eliminate the practice of Islam was unmistakable, and now that the Muslims of southern Andalusia, or the Moriscos as they were called, were within the jurisdiction of the Spanish Inquisition, the Inquisitors embarked on the task of detecting 'relapsed heretics' and secret Muslims. The communities of Muslims which had survived the suppression of the rebellion, or reformed after it, were repeatedly harassed by the Inquisitors.[30]

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...-crusades.html

Bear in mind that the inquisition was just as evil towards other christians (I am a protestant, hence "protesting" against the inquisition and the catholic church) as they were towards muslims.

You have just accused the majority of the Ummah (Muslim Nation) of lacking politeness and civility. Such statements of animosity are not welcomed here. Consider this as a warning.

I said many, not the majority. Most muslims I have met in private or discussed with on the net have been good people.

This statement goes against what history has witnessed.

But today, this is reality. Appart from the disgusting things USA have done, most of the violent religious outrage comes from muslims or countries with a majority of muslim population.

[HeiGou]

I'm in Malaysia, I never see crowd attacking a westerner. It's not a problem for Malays to speak with Westerners or whosoever in Malaysia. Which part of Malaysia you've been?

Racism is there but only against immigrants especially Indonesians, Bangladeshis and Africans.

Well the Malaysian government runs a series of policies that are explicitly racist against the Chinese and the Indians under the general title of ketuanan Melayu (or Malay Supremacy). The Ruling coalition includes UMNO whose members freqeuntly make explicit racial (and mildly genocidal) threats against the Chinese. At a Party conference in Ops Lallang, Najib Razak promised to "bathe the keris with Chinese blood". And then he went on to become Deputy Prime Minister.

So I think Malaysia has a little bit of a bigger problem than a few Indonesians being drowned by the police.

[Christian_dove]

Inshallah,she will get what she deserves.

Did you send death threats?

[Zulkiflim]

Did you send death threats?

Salaam,

No for i do not know her nor her email.
But the result for heretic are clear and plain.

Her actions are of a woman lost and impassioned by emotion but not by logic.
Inshallah,their outburst are strong and striking but the word only show her foolhardiness and her lack of knowledge.

Inshallah she will get what she deserve.

[Christian_dove]

Salaam,

No for i do not know her nor her email.
But the result for heretic are clear and plain.

Her actions are of a woman lost and impassioned by emotion but not by logic.
Inshallah,their outburst are strong and striking but the word only show her foolhardiness and her lack of knowledge.

Inshallah she will get what she deserve.

I think this is pretty much what many imams feel about women, they are "easily driven by their emotions and not by reason", therefor they should not be in charge of anything but taking care of the kitchen and the kids... What a backwards belief. This world would have been a better place if there were more female politicians...

However, you got it all wrong. Religious people are obviously the ones who are driven by passion (as God cannot be scientifically proven) and psychiatrists are not. Thats why they are psychiatrists...

You didn't send death threats because you don't know her e-mail adress?

I think you will get what you deserve too... I think your words show your lack of knowledge...

[sonz]

I think this is pretty much what many imams feel about women, they are "easily driven by their emotions and not by reason", therefor they should not be in charge of anything but taking care of the kitchen and the kids... What a backwards belief. This world would have been a better place if there were more female politicians...

chk this post

http://www.islamicboard.com/3567-post1.html

and if u call that backward belief then u call whats in the bible backward as well cuz it treats women as inferior.

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

1 Timothy 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."

Why bible doesn't give the right to divorce to women?

why doesnt the bible give women's inheritance rights?

People Who Live In Glass Houses Should Not Throw Stones

[Christian_dove]

Oh my goodness, if you wanna discuss women and women rights, Islam versus Christianity, then you really have your work cut out for you... Do I really have to quote from the quoran..?

Paul lived in a society 2000 years ago. They had their own ways of living, as we have our own ways today. Christianity has moved on, we realize that there is no way we can live our lives the way Paul and his likes did.. There are a few christian societies trying to live as they lived then, the Amish people for one, they are peacefull and have withdrawn from our modern ways, not once have I heard that women are suppressed by them.

Have the mulims moved on? Well... That is pretty much what that video is all about.

As I said, don't ask me to cut and paste from the quoran, I am likely to be banned by the admins..