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  1. #1
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    Secret name of Allah (OP)


    Salaam,

    Hi, I'm a recent revert that is struggling with one particular point in Islam, and have not been able to find an answer. Since I came to Islam after examining Jewish beliefs, I have been hooked on the fact that the (a) name of Allah is the Tetragrammaton (Yod Ha Waw Ha) in the Hebrew bible. But the trouble is, I have not found a single Hadith or aya in the Quran that make any mention of that name, nor have I found a theory that satisfies my concern. I've heard mention of a 'secret name' of Allah, that may solve my query, but that too I have not been able to verify in sunnah. It's just striking that a name that the Jews esteem so highly, (so much that they wont even utter it for fear of defiling it), would have no place in Islam. (They even consider it a personal name.) It's very had for me to believe that name would be part of the corruption of the Hebrew Bible, for it is used so so frequently by itself or with the ilah cognate elohim.

    I hope someone out there has either a source for this 'secret name' theory or a better solution...

    Ma Salaama

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    Following that line of thought a little further, would it be fair to say that no human mind can grasp all there is to know about Allah, that not even Muhammad (p) himself knew all there is to know about Allah.? That in fact there probably are not just some things, but many things with regard to Allah; that Allah never even revealed about himself to Muhammad?
    hmmm... you want my views on it?

    well i personally as far as my thinking goes yes i would agree on that...
    its like let me give you and example when some people ask is Allah male or female? wha does He look like, How does He sit? does He have human features?

    well of course we dont know... Allah swt tells us in His book Himself that He is UNSEEN!

    our knowledge only reaches out as far as this world and creation goes, things we see and know about i.e. like for instance paradise, Allah swt describes it in the Qur'an but frm the descriptions that is revealed to us, that surely cannot be all that is there in Paradise! well thats what i think, but from my understanding (Allah swt knows best) i think that He is only descriping the things in Paradis that we are familiarised with as humans, like "gardens under which rivers flow" we know what gardens are and we know what rivers are, He says there will be fruits, we know what fruits are, but is that it???

    are we striving so hard in this world to please our Almighty just to sit there in gardens which has rivers flowing underneath them and fruits?

    no of course not, Allah swt does not go into detail about he other things because these other things are not in existance in our limited world and universe, there would be no way of our human mind to grasp those things in.


    so now itonly makes you think if He the one that was never created, who had no one before Him nor after Him, the awwal (first) and the akhir (last)
    has the power, ability to create all this, how can we even think or imagine how can a human intellect be able to comprehend each and everything about Him even be it a blessed prophet (saw) i would only imagine that the human mind would explode... unless of course Allah swt wills.

    but then again when Allah swt talks about the messengers in the Qur'an He goes to say how according to His own preference He has exceeded some to others, to musa (saw) He spoke to isa (saw) He gave the power to heal etc.

    but none of these prophets (pbut) have had the privilige as far as we know according to the Qur'an to see the Almighty.

    the message of Allah swt was given to prophet mohammad ( saw) through jibriel who is a angel.

    Now angels are another creation of Allah swt altogether with much more power and might than us humans put together, I would say that even they wouldnt be able to grasp or be ale to fully comprehend Allah swt, cos just like us they are limited too.... everyone, everything in creation is limited be it seen or unseen except for Allah swt.

    thats how i think anyhow, but many people might not agree, Allah swt knows best.

    ma salama.

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    One of my thoughts is that just in the way that Allah might have (probably has) other things in paradise besides gardens and rivers and fruits that we can't even imagine, it might also be that some of the ways of Allah are likewise beyond our imagining.

    I mean if the "material things" (I'm not sure that it is even material in the same way that we experience matter on this earth) are beyond our understand, surely the actions, the thoughts, the logic of Allah are way beyond us. Thus I might think that something is impossible or illogical or simply cannot be done such and such way, yet for Allah it is no problem. Things that I think are contradictions -- like light being both a particle and a wave at the same time -- make perfect sense to Allah. And not just when it comes to things in nature, but even more so in the spiritual realm.

    What do you think?

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    One of my thoughts is that just in the way that Allah might have (probably has) other things in paradise besides gardens and rivers and fruits that we can't even imagine, it might also be that some of the ways of Allah are likewise beyond our imagining.

    I mean if the "material things" (I'm not sure that it is even material in the same way that we experience matter on this earth) are beyond our understand, surely the actions, the thoughts, the logic of Allah are way beyond us. Thus I might think that something is impossible or illogical or simply cannot be done such and such way, yet for Allah it is no problem. Things that I think are contradictions -- like light being both a particle and a wave at the same time -- make perfect sense to Allah. And not just when it comes to things in nature, but even more so in the spiritual realm.

    What do you think?
    well in the Qur'an it says:
    Allah swt says be and it is.

    so even trying to understand the logic of Allah swt is a foolish act in it self.
    How can we try to understand or comprehend the knowledge of the one who created us????
    who bestowed very very very limited knowledge upon us, our knowledge is nothing but compared to His and i mean nothing.

    Allah swt says :

    Nor shall the compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth, ayat al kursi.

    Allah swt creates everything in perfection and with good reason, even the things that have been created with imperfections, there are reasons for Him creating it imperfectly we with our very limited knowledge may not know but only He knows all.

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by Eeman View Post
    well in the Qur'an it says:
    Allah swt says be and it is.

    so even trying to understand the logic of Allah swt is a foolish act in it self.
    How can we try to understand or comprehend the knowledge of the one who created us????
    who bestowed very very very limited knowledge upon us, our knowledge is nothing but compared to His and i mean nothing.
    Given that, can you give me any insight into why some Muslims object not just to Christian teachings regarding the Trinity (I know it is considered shirk and that would be reason enough to object to it), but also object that it is illogical to conceive with regard to God the things that become implied by the Trinity. Yes, it might seem illogical to think of three persons in one being, but if trying to understand the logic of Allah is a foolish act in itself, then why would some object to it simply because they cannot conceive of it? And likewise it might seem impossible that the infinite creator of the universe could manifest himself in the form of corruptible humanity. But to reject the ideas simply because they are beyond one's ability to imagine how it could be true-- to me that tells me that the problem is not with the view of God contained in the idea, but with the individual's desire to control who God is or what he can or cannot do by the limits of his/her own finite mind.

    Any thoughts?

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker View Post
    Given that, can you give me any insight into why some Muslims object not just to Christian teachings regarding the Trinity (I know it is considered shirk and that would be reason enough to object to it), but also object that it is illogical to conceive with regard to God the things that become implied by the Trinity. Yes, it might seem illogical to think of three persons in one being, but if trying to understand the logic of Allah is a foolish act in itself, then why would some object to it simply because they cannot conceive of it? And likewise it might seem impossible that the infinite creator of the universe could manifest himself in the form of corruptible humanity. But to reject the ideas simply because they are beyond one's ability to imagine how it could be true-- to me that tells me that the problem is not with the view of God contained in the idea, but with the individual's desire to control who God is or what he can or cannot do by the limits of his/her own finite mind.

    Any thoughts?
    Ok i undrstand what your saying there but no offence, thats where thinking too deep into it as i said is a foolish act in itself.

    based on the teachings of the Qur'an we do not let our desires control who God is or what He can or cannot do, but we merely follow His own message.

    As you may be aware in the Qur'an Allah swt makes it VERY clear throughout the whole book that There is only One God and that is Him, He is one there was nothing before Him not after Him, He begets not nor was He begotten.

    Surah ikhlas makes that very clear.

    He also goes to tell us that isa saw (jesus) was nothing more than a messenger of His and makes it clear that the christians made up lies about the Almighty as in regards Isa saw.

    so when Allah swt is telling us all this and making it clear to us how are we then to go aganist His own word and think, oh no hold on a second God is so Supreme how can we possibly limit Him to not being able to be 3 persons in one being i.e. the trinity. But then one can go further and argue are we not yet again limiting Him to 3??? why not 4 or 5 or 6 or 7????

    so if the mind starts thinking like that then your simply going to lose the plot by the end you'll start believing that there is 1000000000000000000000 so on so forth persons in one being.

    the muslim perspective makes logical sense to me personally, there is only One God but this God is not limited to anything and His attributes are endless. there are only 99 that He Himself out of mercy has revealed to us but i strongly believe that there are many many many more that us humans dont know about. and these are ATTRIBUTES of this One God not other beings nor persons.

    And say for arguments sake is it was the case with Allah swt that He was 3 persons within one being (trinity) then why would He in His final message to mankind the Qur'an emphasise one th fact of Him being One???
    suely He would hint it out somewhere within the book on the contrary He condems such people that set up partners with Him cos they are the ones that are insulting Him and His ability and Power by saying that He is incapable of being One... How can One supreme being be able to do all this??? its not possible therefore He must need help by other beings.
    Last edited by Eeman; 07-05-2008 at 11:30 PM.

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    Your point is well taken. One can "overthink" (is that a new word?) things about God. And it is better to take God at his word with the simplest understanding than to become so analytical of it that we invent things about God that aren't really. I suppose this is why Muslims think of Allah as having two hands even as he remains totally unseen, simply because it mentions "both hands" of Allah in the Qur'an. (BTW, for myself, I think that is figurative language not meant to be taken so literally, but we were not discussing that point.) And given that the Qur'an is your holy record of what Allah said, then of course you must accept those passages that speak directly and clearly against anything remotely similar to the Christian understanding of the Trinity. Like I said, I understand why Muslims are against it. I just don't understand why some are also against the logic of it -- for though it makes no sense based on the Qur'an, we Christians don't use the Qur'an and I think it makes perfect sense given the revelation of God that we find in the Christian scriptures. And, true, one could end up with 4,5, 7, or even 1000 persons in one being if it had been so revealed in the Christian sciptures, but it wasn't. It was three that were revealed therein, and so that's why we have (in our logic) come to that particular view.


    the muslim perspective makes logical sense to me personally, there is only One God but this God is not limited to anything and His attributes are endless. there are only 99 that He Himself out of mercy has revealed to us but i strongly believe that there are many many many more that us humans dont know about. and these are ATTRIBUTES of this One God not other beings nor persons.
    Of course. It would to me too, if I were a Muslim. If one accepts the Qur'an and disregards the writings of the New Testament, the view you hold is the only one that would make any logical sense.

    And say for arguments sake is it was the case with Alla swt that He was 3 persons within one being (trinity) then why would He in His final message to mankind the Qur'an emphasise one th fact of Him being One???
    suely He would hint it out somewhere within the book on the contrary He condems such people that set up partners with Him cos they are the ones that are insulting Him and His ability and Power by saying that He is incapable of being One... How can One supreme being be able to do all this??? its not possible therefore He must need help by other beings.
    Well, I think this depends very much on some apriori we are likely to each make with regard to the veracity of our own scriptures vs. the others. As long as you accept the Qur'an as God's divine revelation and the Bible as being corrupted, then of course one must ask that question as to why Allah would in his final message say the things that he did. But what if it is not your logic, but your initial assumption is what is in error. What if you were to believe as I do that God has sent no new message through yet another prophet, then the whole idea of asking why Allah would say such and such becomes a moot point, for the assumption becomes that it isn't actually revelation at all, but something else with a source other than Allah. And the final message that we have from God becomes that which you had previously rejected. But, this part of the forum is not the place to debate such things.

    Eeman, I want to thank you for willingness to participate in this discussion with me. It has been most interesting, and I appreciate your insights.


  10. #27
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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    Dear brother i totally agree with you there,

    as we muslims believe thats why mankind have been given free will, it is the biggest part of our existance to see who is the one that will walk on the right path and who is the one who will walk on the wrong path in order for us to be held account and judged on the final day.

    i cannot say that just cos i was given that privilige of being born into a muslim family thats why i am upholding my religion and am guided, cos before i fully submitted to the Almighty God although i was a born muslm who had some knowledge about God i was worse than a disbeliever who you would understand to some extent why they live the way they live life, cos you think they were born into that their parents believe that so therefore one would ay it is a lot harder fo them but a born muslim to be a deviating one in my thinking is only as worse no fact even more wrong.

    God almighty has given us intellect eyes to see ears to hear, why? cos He is the most fair, why would He hold us into account if we had no intellect no eyes to se for ourselves and no ears to hear the His message?

    It depends on the person and how much that person wants to know and find out the truth and how far they will go to achieve it, in doing so one has to be sincere and also open minded,

    and Insha'Allah Allah swt will guide them to the truth. the saddest thing i find is that for me it took me so long i had to come nearly on the brink of giving up life altogether in order to turn to Him, and thats what happens most of the times but i am yet still very very very thankful to Him for guiding me even if it was then, its better later than never.

    every religion that you get the firm believing member of it will not understand any logic in other religions and therefore refute it and not accept it.

    But i do not think that that is right the person who is in search of the truth should be open minded, analytical and clarify each and everything. common sense is the most important thing and i would say many of us are blessed with that.

    i have looked into every religion other than islam before to try and get some sort of peace and order or feel that gap and huge void in my life being filled but it didnt take too long until i came across things or theories and believes that made no sense to me and obviously i rejected it but when things did in every aspect as in islam i embraced it fully.

    vice versa brother thank very much for the delightful discussion.
    May Allah swt reward you for it Insha'Allah

    Ma salama.

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    I suppose this is why Muslims think of Allah as having two hands even as he remains totally unseen, simply because it mentions "both hands" of Allah in the Qur'an. (BTW, for myself, I think that is figurative language not meant to be taken so literally:

    as regards this point that you made i totally agree with you from my own understanding i also believe that its only figurative language and not literal. and as far as i know many fellow muslims do believe the same as well.

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    there is no secret here. Just cause and effect. They forgot Allah so He made them forget His Name:

    Yhwh is a third person form in grammar, and literally means "He is".

    In Arabic we have the letters Haa and Wow to give us "Hu" or Huwa "Huwa" as the corresponding word-as in "He is Allah, other than Whom there is no god" (Al Hashr 59:23)

    To solve your mystery lets put the OT story- side by side-with the Honourable Qur'an:

    When Moses sees the burning bush and goes to investigate a voice addresses him and identifies Himself as God. The YHVH is the name given by God to Moses when he asks Who shall I say sent me? The reply is YHVH.

    now look in Sura Taha (20:8) Allah starts the story of Musa (a.s) with this:

    Allahu la illaha ila hu
    8.Allah! There is no god except He. His are the most beautiful names.


    9 Hath there come unto thee the story of Moses?

    10 When he saw a fire and said unto his folk: Lo! Wait! I see a fire afar off. Peradventure I may bring you a brand therefrom or may find guidance at the fire.

    11 And when he reached it, he was called by name: O Moses!

    12 Lo! I, even I, am thy Lord, So take off thy shoes, for lo! thou art in the holy valley of Tuwa.

    13 And I have chosen thee, so hearken unto that which is inspired.

    14 Lo! I, even I, am Allah, There is no god save Me. So serve Me and establish worship for My remembrance

    By identifying the passage of the bible and comparing it with the Qur'an we can say with a degree of confidence that the pronouns " I "and "Me" and "He is" and "I am" are strong possiblilities for YHVH.

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    Naming people and other animals is a human concept as far as I know. So why should people assume Allah has a "real" name in the form of a noise made by animals?

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    أَلَمْ تَرَ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ مَنْ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأرْضِ وَالطَّيْرُ صَافَّاتٍ كُلٌّ قَدْ عَلِمَ صَلاتَهُ وَتَسْبِيحَهُ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِمَا يَفْعَلُونَ

    Seest thou not that it is Allah Whose praises all beings in the heavens and on earth do celebrate, and the birds (of the air) with wings outspread? Each one knows its own (mode of) prayer and praise. And Allah knows well all that they do.
    (24: 41)

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    Yahwé.
    A name that has some similarities to the 63th name of Allah.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Name of God "Yá Bahá'u'l-Abhá" (يا بهاء الأبهى usually translated as "O Thou the Glory of the Most Glorious!"), should be the 100th name of God according to Baha'i faith.

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    The pious names of Allah swt are defined in our holy scriptures. We don't need any other name from any other source
    Last edited by azc; 03-17-2018 at 05:55 PM.
    2 | Likes Zzz_, cinnamonrolls1 liked this post
    Secret name of Allah

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    The 99 names of Allah are what a muslim can practice with benefit, so do not worry too much about other names. They will come to you if you need them, and at the right moment.

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterpeter View Post
    The 99 names of Allah are what a muslim can practice with benefit, so do not worry too much about other names. They will come to you if you need them, and at the right moment.
    We don't need any other name, my friend.

    Do you follow bahaulla..?
    Secret name of Allah

    Allah (swt) knows best

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    Re: Secret name of Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by azc View Post
    We don't need any other name, my friend.

    Do you follow bahaulla..?

    No, I don't.

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