100% proof that jesus is NOT god

[truemuslim]

Here is a website showing proof jesus is not god... PROOF

and here is a vid frum youtube...

MORE PROOF







....AND PLEASE DO NOT HAVE THOSE ANNOYING RELIGION FIGHTS YALL ARE ALWAYS HAVING ON THIS>...

 

[truemuslim]

...same rules as omari on his thread...lol..

 

[truemuslim]

k im out...sleeeeeeepppyy... i better not wake up with a huge fight here and one of these... :threadclo or these :argue: k? k... i want this... :Crescent: peaaace...

 

[Keltoi]

None of that is proof of anything except a clear indication that a clear understanding of Christian doctrine is lacking.

Most of them have been addressed numerous times in other threads. One aspect that might not have been brought up yet, although it probably has, was the question on the video about God not being tempted, but Christ was...

The answer is very simple. Christ was delivered to us for that very reason, his human weakness.

"though he was in the form of God, [Jesus] did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human likeness; and found human in appearance, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross" (Phil 2:6-8).

"The Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve" (Mk 10:45).

 

[------]

:salamext:

Christians say that God came down to earth in the form of Jesus, to learn how human beings suffered, felt etc, right?

I'm going to use Zakir Naik's argument here - "If a person makes a Video Player, the person does not need to become a video player to know what is good and bad for it! He would write an instruction manual. In this way, God has given us the Qur'aan and this is our instruction manual. It tells us what is good and bad, what to avoid, what is allowed, etc."

 

[Gator]

Christians say that God came down to earth in the form of Jesus, to learn how human beings suffered, felt etc, right?

I don't think that's correct. God already knew the human condition as he is the creator and all. Didn't he come down as more of an example and offer a way for mankind to redeem their sins?

Hopefully one of the Christians will set us straight on this.

 

[------]

:salamext:

"redeem their sins?"

If God wanted people with no sins, then we wouldn't have been given free will!! Honestly think about it logically people... :-\

 

[ummsara1108]

How many times can a person commit the same sin before he's not forgiven?

 

[guyabano]

He would write an instruction manual. In this way, God has given us the Qur'aan and this is our instruction manual.

Do you actually know, how much people read an instruction manual when they buy a DVD Player or a TV?
People have more the 'plug-and-play-then-when-smoke-comes-out-I read-the-Instruction-manual' attitude.

 

[Gator]

:salamext:

"redeem their sins?"

If God wanted people with no sins, then we wouldn't have been given free will!! Honestly think about it logically people... :-\

He gave them free will and the tendencies to sin, so he has to give mankind a way out. Therefore he came down and sacrificed himself for there forgiveness. Or at least that's the Christians logic right?

But speaking of logic, so are you saying he actually wants people to sin since he gave people free will (the existence of which is a whole other argument).

 

[------]

:salamext:

People have more the 'plug-and-play-then-when-smoke-comes-out-I read-the-Instruction-manual' attitude.

Well then they can't complain when they go and do something stupid and have to face the consequences. :-\

 

[ummsara1108]

I believe it states GOD came down in a human FORM, which means what he would of looked like if he were human.





but let's just say for a minute god, jesus and the holy spirit (trinity) were all one, doesn't that mean when jesus died so did god and the holy spirit?

 

[------]

:salamext:

But speaking of logic, so are you saying he actually wants people to sin since he gave people free will (the existence of which is a whole other argument).

Nope. As I said before, He (God) has given all the guidlines and the perfect example to us (Muhammad, Peace be upon him). God has told us the way we get to Paradise and the way we get to Hell. What we want to do is up to us.

Let me use an example of an Islamic Scholar, Ibn Al Qayyim, who said:

"Get yourself out of this limited world of diseases to the wide world of the Hereafter, which has what the eyes have never seen. Nothing is impossible there, and love is not lost. O you who have sold yourself for the sake of something that will cause you suffering and pain, and which will also lose its beauty, you sold the most precious item for the cheapest price, as if you neither knew the value of the goods nor the meanness of the price. Wait until you come to the Day of mutual loss and gain and you will discover the injustice of this contract. “There is not god by Allaah” is something that Allaah is buying. Its price is Paradise, and the Messenger is its agent, and you will be pleased to part with a small part of this worldly life to obtain it. The part you lose is a small part of something that as a whole is not worth a mosquito’s wing."

 

[Gator]

I believe it states GOD came down in a human FORM, which means what he would of looked like if he were human.

but let's just say for a minute god, jesus and the holy spirit (trinity) were all one, doesn't that mean when jesus died so did god and the holy spirit?

Alright people I'm playing devils advocate here (Christians pardon the expression). All I say can be taken back, corrected, and replaced by whatever a Christian says.

But it quite clearly states that he rose again right?

And this three god thing doesn't make sense either. I have no problem believing an all-powerful god can be described by humans in three different ways if it manifests itself differently. Muslims have like what 99 names for god? That is unless you believe that he is not all powerful.

Although I just noticed that 99 divided by 3 equals 33! Which is the number of days after which jesus rose........plus 30 days.

Taking off Chrisitan fundy hat now.

 

[------]

:salamext:

Muslims have like what 99 names for god? That is unless you believe that he is not all powerful.

Not 99 specifically. God can be called by any name in Islam as long as its beautiful and does not form an image in the mind. E.g. All Merciful, All Loving, etc.

Let me give another example here (Zakir Naik's): Some Christians say to describe the trinity that water is still water, whether its water vapour in the gas form, water in the liquid form, or ice in the solid form. The formula remains the same. This is like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

However, the properties of H20 (Water) remains the same throughout all three processes. It does not 'change' the formula of the water. It remains H20.

If we put this into perspective, we can see that God, Human and 'bird' [excuse my lack of vocabulary] do not have the same properties, functions etc, when they are known to be as one.

 

[Keltoi]

:salamext:

Christians say that God came down to earth in the form of Jesus, to learn how human beings suffered, felt etc, right?

I'm going to use Zakir Naik's argument here - "If a person makes a Video Player, the person does not need to become a video player to know what is good and bad for it! He would write an instruction manual. In this way, God has given us the Qur'aan and this is our instruction manual. It tells us what is good and bad, what to avoid, what is allowed, etc."

Christ didn't come to Earth to "learn how human beings suffered", He came down to be one of them, to redeem mankind in the eyes of God, and to suffer for their transgressions, thereby allowing a path to salvation. The ultimate act of atonement.

 

[Keltoi]

:salamext:

"redeem their sins?"

If God wanted people with no sins, then we wouldn't have been given free will!! Honestly think about it logically people... :-\

It isn't that God "wants people without sin"...He knows very well that people will sin. As an act of mercy, Christ was delivered to us as a way to achieve salvation even though we don't deserve it.

*Adding to that, I would also say that despite our faults God does indeed wish for us to achieve salvation through Him, otherwise Christ would not have been sent to us.

 

[Gator]

Nope. As I said before, He (God) has given all the guidlines and the perfect example to us (Muhammad, Peace be upon him). God has told us the way we get to Paradise and the way we get to Hell. What we want to do is up to us.

You wanted me to use logic in your snippy answer, well here is an equally snippy example of logic based on your premises-

P1) If God wanted people with no sins, then we wouldn't have been given free will! [direct quote]

P2) God gave us free will. [do you disagree?]

C - God wants people with sin.

Plus, your response and quote leads to another question, didn't god create us all?

You are saying he gave us the tendencies to sin (powerful enough to overcome reason) and then gives us a book telling us to repress these god-given tendencies or we burn in hell.

(Sorry to be a jerk and I apologize, its just that your answer ticked me off)

 

[Gator]

If we put this into perspective, we can see that God, Human and 'bird' [excuse my lack of vocabulary] do not have the same properties, functions etc, when they are known to be as one.

So an all powerful god can't have manifestations described differently with different characteristics?

 

[Keltoi]

I believe it states GOD came down in a human FORM, which means what he would of looked like if he were human.





but let's just say for a minute god, jesus and the holy spirit (trinity) were all one, doesn't that mean when jesus died so did god and the holy spirit?

I'm not sure about your first statement, there is no mention that Christ is the human visual representation of God. I don't think that is even concievable.

As for the second part, Christ did not die, at least not the permanent physical death that we must endure. As Christ Himself said, He returned to the Father.