A response to Richard Dawkins by Adam Deen

[Ramadhan]

Would you like me to link you to an interview with them?

Sure if you have one.

All of this is only persuasive if you already happen to be a theist. For people like me who don't believe in any gods, the Qur'an is a book containing a character called Allah, who claims in the text to have created the universe.

And yet you cannot produce the claims even though earlier you stated that there are other deities who do so.

You have such a profound belief that there is no God, and yet here we have Allah claims clearly and unambiguously that He is indeed the creator (while knowing that there is no other deity does so),
would you not be interested to investigate if the claim holds true?

 

[جوري]

All of this is only persuasive if you already happen to be a theist. For people like me who don't believe in any gods, the Qur'an is a book containing a character called Allah, who claims in the text to have created the universe.

Belief or lack of belief in God is something you have to work on, in your own private time. No one can convince you that [SIZE=-1]Voltage (V) = Current x Impedance (Ohms) or that [/SIZE]Ejection Fraction (EF) = (SV / EDV) × 100%

you don't strike me as the type to derive such conclusion intuitively or through observation, but if you didn't and still want to have a clue then clearly having a book and a teacher seems like your best bet at understanding what goes on in the world around you and the laws that govern your universe.

No one forces or should be made to force another to be an engineer or a physicist or a doctor or even an English teacher.. you need the tools to perfect your craft if you want to butter your bread by said means you will have to comply with the accepted standards and most certainly have to start with a book and assume some confidence in its values and characters, or do the next best thing and come up with better, make it applicable and universal..

Of course one can always be a bum, there is plenty of room for that, just like there is life outside of religion and science outside of academia

all the best

 

[Pygoscelis]

Sure if you have one.
He is indeed the creator (while knowing that there is no other deity does so),
would you not be interested to investigate if the claim holds true?

Why would a writer's attributing any claim to a fictional character make you suspect it to be reality? Do you spend time trying to find the ends of rainbows for pots of gold and strike it rich? No. Because you see that claim as a fantasy. That the claim would make you rich if it were so and were you to reach the rainbow's end doesn't make you see this as any more than fantasy.

 

[Ramadhan]

Why would a writer's attributing any claim to a fictional character make you suspect it to be reality?

Where have I ever indicated that?

I asked czgibson, or for that matter all atheists, to come forth with the claim by any other deity that they are indeed God and the Creator.

I am still waiting.

Do you spend time trying to find the ends of rainbows for pots of gold and strike it rich? No. Because you see that claim as a fantasy. That the claim would make you rich if it were so and were you to reach the rainbow's end doesn't make you see this as any more than fantasy.

Now I know how others feel when debating with atheists who keep resorting to "pots at the end of rainbow", "celestial teapot" etc instead of focusing on the subject at hand.

 

[جوري]

Now I know how others feel when debating with atheists who keep resorting to "pots at the end of rainbow", "celestial teapot" etc instead of focusing on the subject at hand.

dumb happens at the end.. I like to save myself the grief and assume dumb happening all along and avoid the tirade..
It is a predictable spiral, they have just one ride in their amusement park, so if you have been on it before and managed to stifle a mere yawn, I wouldn't keep investing my time on that ride in hopes of new thrills!...

:wa:

 

[Pygoscelis]

I asked czgibson, or for that matter all atheists, to come forth with the claim by any other deity that they are indeed God and the Creator.

To what end? For the sake of argument, let's grant that the muslim god is the only one that this claim is made for. What does this prove or indicate or give evidence for? Were you not making an argument that it means something?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Sure if you have one.

Total irony failure...

And yet you cannot produce the claims even though earlier you stated that there are other deities who do so.

I don't remember saying that. Please read my words more carefully. In any case, like Pygoscelis, I can't see where you're going with this strange argument.

You have such a profound belief that there is no God, and yet here we have Allah claims clearly and unambiguously that He is indeed the creator (while knowing that there is no other deity does so),
would you not be interested to investigate if the claim holds true?

Of course, I have done. I can't see any reason to believe the Qur'an is anything other than the work of human hands.

Now I know how others feel when debating with atheists who keep resorting to "pots at the end of rainbow", "celestial teapot" etc instead of focusing on the subject at hand.

Are you sure you understand why atheists bring up these comparisons?

Peace

 

[Ramadhan]

So you guys agree that Allah SWT is the only one who claim that He is God and the Creator.

Now of course I don't expect you that accept it, but you can investigate if the claim holds by examining the Qur'an.

I am not a scholar, so I cannot provide exhaustive explanations why Al Qur'an is the true words of God, but you can read all about it in other sections and threads about the miracles of Al Qur'an, about characteristics such as the fact that it is free of error and contradiction or that it has not changed even a single letter for 1,400 years (and in the Qur'an Allah has promised to keep Al Qur'an intact).

However, I also see that despite all these evidence you guys still refuse to accept the truth. So I have no more to say but May Allah give you hidayah.

 

[Trumble]

To what end? For the sake of argument, let's grant that the muslim god is the only one that this claim is made for. What does this prove or indicate or give evidence for? Were you not making an argument that it means something?

It's certainly puzzling me. The only use I can possibly see for it would be in arguing that they are in fact lots of other gods, but that they are somehow sub-ordinate to Allah as evidenced by the fact they do not claim to be Creators of the universe. And a muslim could never make any such claim, of course.. so I'm left none the wiser.

 

[Justufy]

It's certainly puzzling me. The only use I can possibly see for it would be in arguing that they are in fact lots of other gods, but that they are somehow sub-ordinate to Allah as evidenced by the fact they do not claim to be Creators of the universe. And a muslim could never make any such claim, of course.. so I'm left none the wiser.

ah ok


(Edited for content)