Adhan permited in Europe as the disease spreads

[anatolian]

Salam

Is it just a coincidence or a repentance?

 

[CuriousonTruth]

This is very bad. With the spreading unemployment, many Europeans are already pissed off, the last thing the muslims should have done is this. This will only help to propel far-right parties. I don't understand why muslims in the west continue to act in this way.

 

[cmb20]

Why would you want to live in a country where the adhan can't be made, why move to europe? i don't understand many born Muslims. You should put your Religion before you're desire to live an easy life in this dunya.

 

[CuriousonTruth]

Why would you want to live in a country where the adhan can't be made, why move to europe? i don't understand many born Muslims. You should put your Religion before you're desire to live an easy life in this dunya.

Money really. Even Janitors and taxi drivers in Europe make more money than Engineers in muslim countries. All the degrees and education go to waste in muslim countries because there's no jobs and if there are jobs they pay next to nothing.

 

[cmb20]

Why would any Muslim want to work for a country and pay taxes to it when the government of that country is actively killing Muslims or trying to corrupt peoples understanding of Islam? For any amount of money?

 

[CuriousonTruth]

Why would any Muslim want to work for a country and pay taxes to it when the government of that country is actively killing Muslims or trying to corrupt peoples understanding of Islam? For any amount of money?

They don't care for one. "Muslims" are not some hivemind, that they have a collective consciousness or emotion. They just a bunch of individuals that range from Salafis like ISIS to pro-LGBT secularists like American/ Canadian muslims.

And really you're expecting them to care about the collective welfare of people they don't even know, when they don't even give a toss about their parents and take lifestyle choices that are completely against what their parents teach, such as drinking, smoking, clubbing, etc. And you expect them to care about muslims they don't even know, when they don't give a toss about their own family member?

And I have many relatives in the West, most of the family from my father's side are in the West. I can't confirm it myself, but my cousins have told me even the religious people live double lives and are two faced, both men and women. So how can you just expect people who are in such a state to care about wider political implications of their citizenship in the West.

 

[cmb20]

They don't care for one. "Muslims" are not some hivemind, that they have a collective consciousness or emotion. They just a bunch of individuals that range from Salafis like ISIS to pro-LGBT secularists like American/ Canadian muslims.

And really you're expecting them to care about the collective welfare of people they don't even know, when they don't even give a toss about their parents and take lifestyle choices that are completely against what their parents teach, such as drinking, smoking, clubbing, etc. And you expect them to care about muslims they don't even know, when they don't give a toss about their own family member?

And I have many relatives in the West, most of the family from my father's side are in the West. I can't confirm it myself, but my cousins have told me even the religious people live double lives and are two faced, both men and women. So how can you just expect people who are in such a state to care about wider political implications of their citizenship in the West.

I agree with most of what you have said what do you think the solution should be?

 

[CuriousonTruth]

I agree with most of what you have said what do you think the solution should be?

Hah, 2-3 years ago I would be adamant that the solution is migration. But I'm more nuanced now. I know there are so many factors that can influence a person's decision - the money, family such as parents or siblings living in the West, spouse, etc.

What I know is with every generation that lives in the West, religiosity will decrease, liberalism (among secular muslims) and Munafiqs (among religious muslims) will increase. The only thing to do in that case is to just prevent that as much as possible.

And they can't even go to country like Turkey, because as soon as Erdogan loses power, it will be back to oppression of muslims under Kemalizm just like in the past.

It's a difficult situation and I don't have immediate solutions.

 

[cmb20]

Hah, 2-3 years ago I would be adamant that the solution is migration. But I'm more nuanced now. I know there are so many factors that can influence a person's decision - the money, family such as parents or siblings living in the West, spouse, etc.

What I know is with every generation that lives in the West, religiosity will decrease, liberalism (among secular muslims) and Munafiqs (among religious muslims) will increase. The only thing to do in that case is to just prevent that as much as possible.

And they can't even go to country like Turkey, because as soon as Erdogan loses power, it will be back to oppression of muslims under Kemalizm just like in the past.

It's a difficult situation and I don't have immediate solutions.

i don't think turkey will allow hundreds of thousands of people to just permanently settle in turkey though and if erdogan loses power the country probably would just go back to how it was after the 1997 coup.

 

[CuriousonTruth]

i don't think turkey will allow hundreds of thousands of people to just permanently settle in turkey though and if erdogan loses power the country probably would just go back to how it was after the 1997 coup.

No doubt Turkey's immigration and citizenship policy is as tough as the Scandinavian countries from what I've heard. But still, they tolerate barely educated Syrians, I'm sure Western University graduates who can speak 2-3 languages would be very lucrative for them.

But again the main problem is they are an unstable democracy, and the moment CHP comes back Turkey will become like China V2.

 

[*charisma*]

This is very bad. With the spreading unemployment, many Europeans are already pissed off, the last thing the muslims should have done is this. This will only help to propel far-right parties. I don't understand why muslims in the west continue to act in this way.

I really don't understand your logic here. I find it ridiculous. Maybe you take living in a muslim majority country for granted.

Hah, 2-3 years ago I would be adamant that the solution is migration. But I'm more nuanced now. I know there are so many factors that can influence a person's decision - the money, family such as parents or siblings living in the West, spouse, etc.

What I know is with every generation that lives in the West, religiosity will decrease, liberalism (among secular muslims) and Munafiqs (among religious muslims) will increase. The only thing to do in that case is to just prevent that as much as possible.

And they can't even go to country like Turkey, because as soon as Erdogan loses power, it will be back to oppression of muslims under Kemalizm just like in the past.

It's a difficult situation and I don't have immediate solutions.

You'd be surprised actually to know that there are many people who have the exact opposite of this. It all depends on how the kids are raised. I've met Muslims from Muslim lands who are worse off than any of the Muslims I know in the west. They come to the west already drinking and smoking weed, looking for partners, etc. So I think your generalization should be taken with a grain of salt. The context of the world has changed. Previous generations lived in simpler times and in poverty, but this generation is tested with a lot.

 

[CuriousonTruth]

I really don't understand your logic here. I find it ridiculous. Maybe you take living in a muslim majority country for granted.

You'd be surprised actually to know that there are many people who have the exact opposite of this. It all depends on how the kids are raised. I've met Muslims from Muslim lands who are worse off than any of the Muslims I know in the west. They come to the west already drinking and smoking weed, looking for partners, etc. So I think your generalization should be taken with a grain of salt. The context of the world has changed. Previous generations lived in simpler times and in poverty, but this generation is tested with a lot.

It's simple actually. Europeans don't like foreigners and foreign cultures. Least of all Islam given the long history of conflicts with Europe and the Islamic Sultanates. And now public display of Islam, at a time of public crisis, where many people have lost their jobs, is only going to magnify their hatred and swell far-right parties.

Your experience is anecdotal. The weed smokers and drunks unless they are rich, aren't smart enough to get Scholarship in Western Universities. Most people change after living among Europeans/Whites and adopt nonsense like "human rights" and liberalism.

Have you forgotten my first post here, where I showed you a reddit thread about muslims marrying non-muslims and leaving islam and/or their families, 90% of them were Western muslims.

 

[Studentofdeed]

I live in the west but don't behave you described. I disagree with such norms and am disgusted. But best thing is to do act a real Muslim so people realize what Islam is about and realize the beauty of it. There are some who take advantage of being born Muslim and don't realize how lucky they are and these people see Islam as a culture and not a religion. Here by stating our religion and praying openly we are able to call people to Islam and make they realize the truth and its beauty. Unfortunately many born Muslims swear and act as worst as possible and marry western woman for Greencards they give bad name to islam.

 

[*charisma*]

It's simple actually. Europeans don't like foreigners and foreign cultures. Least of all Islam given the long history of conflicts with Europe and the Islamic Sultanates. And now public display of Islam, at a time of public crisis, where many people have lost their jobs, is only going to magnify their hatred and swell far-right parties.

You don't know that, and even if were to happen, so what? How far are you willing to give up your religion just so some righty will like you? lol

Your experience is anecdotal. The weed smokers and drunks unless they are rich, aren't smart enough to get Scholarship in Western Universities. Most people change after living among Europeans/Whites and adopt nonsense like "human rights" and liberalism.

Have you forgotten my first post here, where I showed you a reddit thread about muslims marrying non-muslims and leaving islam and/or their families, 90% of them were Western muslims.

90% of the ones on reddit perhaps, but not in the rest of the world. And there are people leaving Islam even in muslim majority countries. There are even those who marry nonMuslims, yes coming from Muslim majority countries. So these issues are not western issues, they are global issues. My experiences are not anecdotal. You probably have never lived outside of your home country. I try to refrain from generalizing groups of people, but the reality is that there are good and bad muslims everywhere regardless where they were born or where they've lived. Is there an excuse for those living in Muslim countries? Allah knows. But the mentality that "muslims should stay in their place, not request adhan to please the white man" is exactly the mentality that keeps Muslims weak. When you respect yourself, you gain the respect of others.

 

[CuriousonTruth]

I live in the west but don't behave you described. I disagree with such norms and am disgusted. But best thing is to do act a real Muslim so people realize what Islam is about and realize the beauty of it. There are some who take advantage of being born Muslim and don't realize how lucky they are and these people see Islam as a culture and not a religion. Here by stating our religion and praying openly we are able to call people to Islam and make they realize the truth and its beauty. Unfortunately many born Muslims swear and act as worst as possible and marry western woman for Greencards they give bad name to islam.

I wasn't talking about any individual. It's what will happen at a group level. Assimilation is inevitable. I mean the fact that Muslims in USA and Canada support LGBT more than mainstream Christians indicates where things are going to go.

Ofcourse under Secular dictatorships like Egypt, UAE, KSA, Bahrain,Bangladesh muslim countries will face these problems soon in 10-20 years as well. But dictatorships can be removed, Conservative muslims can eventually band together in a political movement (Like in muslim Turks) and bring change again. But European liberal culture isn't going anywhere.

"we are able to call people to Islam and make they realize the truth and its beauty"

Looking at the political climate in Europe and the rise of far-right across Europe, doesn't seem the whole beauty of islam thing worked out quite as you wanted.

 

[CuriousonTruth]

You don't know that, and even if were to happen, so what? How far are you willing to give up your religion just so some righty will like you? lol


90% of the ones on reddit perhaps, but not in the rest of the world. And there are people leaving Islam even in muslim majority countries. There are even those who marry nonMuslims, yes coming from Muslim majority countries. So these issues are not western issues, they are global issues. My experiences are not anecdotal. You probably have never lived outside of your home country. I try to refrain from generalizing groups of people, but the reality is that there are good and bad muslims everywhere regardless where they were born or where they've lived. Is there an excuse for those living in Muslim countries? Allah knows. But the mentality that "muslims should stay in their place, not request adhan to please the white man" is exactly the mentality that keeps Muslims weak. When you respect yourself, you gain the respect of others.

Dude you're the ones living there, you have to abide by the constitution, government, and western culture. Let's say my country becomes Islamic Republic, do you think we will tolerate Hindus ringing their temple bells, or Christians putting their sermons on loud speakers? Never. Infact we will use it as political points to call for further discrimination against non-muslims and post all over social media "Hindus taking over" just like Far-right does in your country.

Again muslims living in the West know what it's all about and what they signed upto.

In many European countries, swimming lessons in less than modest swimsuits are mandatory. There's peer pressure to attend Prom parties, being "virgin" is embarrasment, infact "virgins" are taunted. Government run schools emphasize on disproving religious texts that oppose Evolution.

"And there are people leaving Islam even in muslim majority countries."
Yeah and? They are liberals and gays, obviously Islam isn't for them. They have unstable lives and usually don't actively pro-create, ending their line of blood. And all ex-muslims in a yea, are replaced in a month because muslims have high birth rate, especially conservatives.

"There are even those who marry nonMuslims"

I live in one of the most liberal, secular muslim country. Never seen it happen. There's a sub-conscious firewall. I can attest this myself, I've always had repulsion against Hindu girls although some were good looking, if you ask anyone except the ultra-liberals (who have no Islam left), even they will say, "Hindus? Eh no thanks".

"good and bad muslims everywhere"
Sure there's something called averages.

 

[CuriousonTruth]

Just so that I'm clear I'm not speaking against western muslims. Infact in my anecdotal experience with what interactions I had with some German Turks for example, I really liked talking with them, especially since their beliefs are pretty close to mine, it's really a good feeling when you talk to someone who matches your own beliefs so much. And in my experience they are better than mainland turks (again my anecdotal experience) especially the Kemalists . Ofcourse my interactions with Western Pakistanis and BDeshis haven't been as positive.

What I'm talking about is the influence of Western culture will inevitably assimilate the muslims. It's just a reality.

 

[*charisma*]

Dude you're the ones living there, you have to abide by the constitution, government, and western culture. Let's say my country becomes Islamic Republic, do you think we will tolerate Hindus ringing their temple bells, or Christians putting their sermons on loud speakers? Never. Infact we will use it as political points to call for further discrimination against non-muslims and post all over social media "Hindus taking over" just like Far-right does in your country.

Again muslims living in the West know what it's all about and what they signed upto.

In many European countries, swimming lessons in less than modest swimsuits are mandatory. There's peer pressure to attend Prom parties, being "virgin" is embarrasment, infact "virgins" are taunted. Government run schools emphasize on disproving religious texts that oppose Evolution.

"And there are people leaving Islam even in muslim majority countries."
Yeah and? They are liberals and gays, obviously Islam isn't for them. They have unstable lives and usually don't actively pro-create, ending their line of blood. And all ex-muslims in a yea, are replaced in a month because muslims have high birth rate, especially conservatives.

Their laws don't prevent us from practicing. And sorry but the majority of us don't cower just because they don't like us. I think your views of the west are quite extreme to be honest. It's not that difficult to live and practice abroad if you want to, without getting harmed or influenced. I have never ever heard of anyone being pressured to go to prom or to lose their virginity, or even be made fun of for it. When there are different cultures its natural to assimilate in some ways, but when you're in the west people come from all over the world so each person tends to stick to their own culture mostly. But anyways the whole point here is just because a system or a group of people do not like us, it doesn't mean we have to lose our identity to please them. It's not all black and white like in your world.

I live in one of the most liberal, secular muslim country. Never seen it happen. There's a sub-conscious firewall. I can attest this myself, I've always had repulsion against Hindu girls although some were good looking, if you ask anyone except the ultra-liberals (who have no Islam left), even they will say, "Hindus? Eh no thanks".

Maybe cuz they're all busy having premarital relationships You'd be surprised about what you don't know is going on in your own turf.

But yea the subconscious wall thing happens in muslims in the west too, it's not just you.

 

[CuriousonTruth]

Their laws don't prevent us from practicing. And sorry but the majority of us don't cower just because they don't like us. I think your views of the west are quite extreme to be honest. It's not that difficult to live and practice abroad if you want to, without getting harmed or influenced. I have never ever heard of anyone being pressured to go to prom or to lose their virginity, or even be made fun of for it. When there are different cultures its natural to assimilate in some ways, but when you're in the west people come from all over the world so each person tends to stick to their own culture mostly. But anyways the whole point here is just because a system or a group of people do not like us, it doesn't mean we have to lose our identity to please them. It's not all black and white like in your world.

Maybe cuz they're all busy having premarital relationships You'd be surprised about what you don't know is going on in your own turf.

But yea the subconscious wall thing happens in muslims in the west too, it's not just you.

"It's not that difficult to live and practice"
I disagree.

"Maybe cuz they're all busy having premarital relationships You'd be surprised about what you don't know is going on in your own turf."
Premarital relations among (liberal) muslims themselves sure. We have 3-5 Leftist Universities, and even in conservative Unis, it can happen. But again there's a sub-conscious barrier between muslims and non-muslims especially hindus. I had many friends from St. Francis Xavier's Missionary school and more often than not the christians and muslims didn't mix even there.

"But yea the subconscious wall thing happens in muslims in the west too" If you say so. As I said I have many of my family from father's side live in the West. And from what I've heard, well it's not good to put it lightly.

 

[anatolian]

All the world is of Muslims.

I dont think any one who is raised in the west would want to live in Turkey.