Allah is Jehovah?

[BadOlPuttyTat]

Ok i am getting VERY mixed responses as to who Allah is. Allah is the generic name for god period in Arabic period. But i am not understanding the debates about Allah being pagan or Allah not being pagan. I would like someone to give me the reasons to explain why Allah IS NOT PAGAN? As i can find a list of articles declaring Allah is. Can i get non bias answers please? :statisfie

 

[Insaanah]

Greetings,

I'll quote from my post in your other thread:

In Christianity, God is composed of three persons, the father, the son and the holy spirit. There is no such notion in Islam of God being a person or composed of persons at all, nor of Him being mixed up in His creation. He is One, in every sense, and there is nothing like Him.

• In Islam there is only One God, Who is our Creator and the Creator of the universe around us. He alone should be worshipped.
• He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, siblings, parents, cousins, nor relatives of any sort.
• He is eternal and does not die.
• There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful.
• He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, no intermediaries, and no denying of God's existence either.
• There are no sharers or associates whatsoever in His Exclusive Divinity, nor human manifestations of Him. Simply, He is One, in every sense.

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134312817-islam-christianity.html#post1515355

Which part of that sounds pagan?

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Greetings of peace,

Allaah is the creator of all that exists..

Allaah explains it better himself in his noble book:

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "He is Allah, (the) One."Allah-us-Samad (السيد الذي يصمد إليه في الحاجات) [Allah the Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, (He neither eats nor drinks)]."He begets not, nor was He begotten. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him." [Al Qur'aan al Ikhlaas]

 

[Hulk]

The simplest answer I can think of is that Allah is not "pagan" because no muslim has ever thought of God in that way.

You know that "Allah" means God, in fact very similar to "Elah" which is God in Aramaic..

So how can Allah be pagan if Allah means God?

I guess if we switched the language around it would be like if some arabs are discussing whether "God" is pagan.

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

Greetings,

I'll quote from my post in your other thread:



Which part of that sounds pagan?[/SIZE][/FONT]

Well then what do you think of the pagan rituals still practiced by Muslim's? I am not insulting you but i question everything before i jump in it. Circumambulation is one of th eoldest pagan rituals practices ive known and very common in Hinduism and i have known Sanatana Dharma before i have knewn anything about Islam. I will say this about you, your the wise-man of this forum thats for sure ;D

 

[Darth Ultor]

There are still people who don't know Muslims worship the same God as the Jews and Christians?

 

[dqsunday]

I think a better question would be 'what does pagan mean?' Allah is the one true god, God is the one true god..It is just the Arabic word for God. The word pagan refers to many various religions, mostly polytheistic in nature. Or simply nature based. Islam is not this at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism for more on what pagan is and the type of religions that tend to fall under that categorization.

 

[Abz2000]

the term ilah, means "god" as in anything you want to describe as "god",
the term Allah means the one and only God, there is no plural or gender splitting etc,
if the orientalists attempt to convince you that the one and only God is pagan, it's them you should be looking to, because for a Muslim, the One and only God is the creator of all that exists, and is not made of wood or stone.

 

[YusufNoor]

Ok i am getting VERY mixed responses as to who Allah is. Allah is the generic name for god period in Arabic period.

that is not correct.
But i am not understanding the debates about Allah being pagan or Allah not being pagan. I would like someone to give me the reasons to explain why Allah IS NOT PAGAN?

understanding the term Allah, answers the question.
As i can find a list of articles declaring Allah is. Can i get non bias answers please? :statisfie

you are a Christian, so you have plural deities. as a Muslim, we know there can only be One Creator. thus, you probably WILL feel that our answer is biased. that is probably because you can't comprehend TRUE MONOTHEISM. :statisfie

we can only tell you the Truth, take a look at the very 1st Surah in the Qur'an:

BismiAllah ar Rahman ar Raheem [In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful]
Alhamdu-lillahi Rabbil Aalameen [see below]
Ar Rahman ar Raheem [the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful]
Maliki Yawmid Deen [the Owner of the Day of Judgment]
Iyya KanaAAbudu wa iyyaka NastaAAeen [You Alone we worship and You Alone we seek help {from}]
Ihdinaas Sirataal Mustaqeem [Guide us to the straight path]
Sirataal latheena anAAamta AAalayhim Ghayrial Maghdoobi AAalayhim Walaad Dalleen [The Path of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not the path of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews by repeatedly rejecting Your Laws and Your Prophets]), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians [who turn monotheism into paganism]).

Alhamdulillahi Raabil Alameen- here is where you find the answer:

al hamdu means All True and heartfelt thanks and Praise are Lillahi for Allah, but we have to understand what Allah means.
Allah the Arabic word for god is elah. but a more complete definition is "something that you deem worthy of worship". Allah is a contraction of Al elah. by adding the Al to elah, you now have a term that signifies THE ONLY ONE THAT IS WORTHY OF WORSHIP.

Raab signifies the one Who Created you. the One who sustains you, nourishes you, heals you, etc.
Alameem can be translated as of all that exists.

put together, we get something like "All True, Heartfelt and Sincere Thanks and Praise are due to THE ONLY ONE THAT IS WORTHY OF WORSHIP, the Creator, Cherishor, Sustainor, Nourishor of ALL that has been created". THAT is who Allah is.

btw, nowhere in the Hebrew text is Allah called Jehovah. the creators of the King James Bible added the first vowels from adonai to the Tetragrammaton YHVH used in Genesis. thus, it is a made up word that really means nothing. [which appears to be what you call God???]

you may find that answer biased, but it is clear and TRUE.

:wa:

 

[Scimitar]

according to my research, I always saw pagan religions being polytheist, and not monotheist - so I found the OP's question to be a bit off point to be honest. Am I wrong?

Scimi

 

[Abz2000]

it may be that you are unfamiliar with the term, but it has been used to describe the one and only God by the people of the previous scriptures too, and still is.

many of the jews had names like Abdullah during the time of the final Messenger of God (may peace be upon him).
and the name describing the one and only God was used long before the code name Jehovah was given, read here:

And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty,
but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Exodus 6:3

and we can see that a variant of that name is used here, despite there being much confusion as to the actual events, it still is sufficient to indicate that the term was in use:

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?
that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Matthew 27:46

in arabic, the term Allah is the One and Only Almighty God for Muslims, and "greatest God" for pagans.
ilah is "god"
and ilahi is "my god".

many things can be "kabeer" (big) , but only one can be "akbar" (the greatest).

therefore the term "Allah" leaves no room for confusion as to the context in which it is used.

 

[Insaanah]

Greetings

Well then what do you think of the pagan rituals still practiced by Muslim's?

Muslims don't practise pagan rituals.

I am not insulting you but i question everything before i jump in it.

The above wasn't questioning, but an making assumption. Assumptions aren't good, on the contrary they are dangerous, because they give rise to misunderstandings. Questioning to learn and understand, on the other hand, is good.

Circumambulation is one of th eoldest pagan rituals practices ive known and very common in Hinduism and i have known Sanatana Dharma before i have knewn anything about Islam.

Circumambulation is not a pagan ritual. However, if you circumambulate an object to worship it, or believing that you are worshipping it, then it becomes one. Hindusim is the classic example you gave above. At weddings, the bride and groom circumambulate a fire, which they believe to be the Hindu deity agni, so they circumambulate one of their gods, as a form of worship to the god they are circumambulating, the god of fire, who has two heads, a father, a wife, and three sons, brothers etc.

Taking your argument, one can say that worship is a pagan ritual, because some people worship many gods. But as we know, that's not the case. Worship is monotheistic if you worship the One True Lord, and polytheistic or pagan if you direct your worship to more than one deity. It depends who or what you're worshipping. It does not make the whole of worship in general, pagan.

Muslims do NOT worship the ka'bah. Worshipping anything, anybody, or any object, other than Allah, is the biggest sin one can commit in Islam. There are many verses in the Qur'an about the ka'bah, here are two pertinent ones:

Let them worship the Lord of this House. (Qur'an, 106:3)
Notice, it doesn't say let them worship the house, but wherever we are, we must always worship the Lord of the house. Worship of the house, is a SIN. No Muslim worships the ka'bah.

And [mention, O Muhammad], when We designated for Abraham the site of the House, [saying], "Associate not anything (in worship) with Me; and purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who stand [in prayer] and those who bow and prostrate.(22:26)

Again, affirming we cannot join anything in Allah's worship, be that the ka'bah, the moon, trees, Jesus (peace be upon him), anything or anybody at all.

Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) and his son Ishmael (peace be upon him) built the Ka'bah in response to Allah's command, as a special place dedicated for the worship of the One True God and invited humanity to visit it for that purpose. Even today, Muslims who are physically and financially able have to make pilgrimage to it once in a lifetime.

The Ka'bah has remained at the centre of a continuous tradition of worship and devotion, up to the present day. Amongst the ancient religious rites particular to the Ka'bah is circumambulation (walking around it - tawaaf). We now know that creation is in fact always in a state of circumambulation: whether at the micro level, with the electrons that go round the nucleus of an atom, or at the mega level with the Earth and the other planets orbiting the Sun. Allah has appointed for us a central point, to go around when directly in front of it, and to use as a direction for prayer, when we are not.

It symbolises the centrality of Allah to a Muslim's life, and our obedience to His command. It suggests the integrating and unifying power of monotheism in human life and how a Muslim's life should revolve around a pure devotion to Allah. A muslim strives to lead his or her life devoted to Allah, and this is what is physically expressed when he or she joins many of creation by also going into circumambulation and going round the point assigned by Allah for that purpose, in response to His command, and following in the footsteps of the Prophets He sent.

I will say this about you, your the wise-man of this forum thats for sure

No. I am one of the learners. There are far more knowledgeable and wise people here.

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

Muslims don't practise pagan rituals.

Circumambulation is not a pagan ritual.

Pagan implies many things but i am not saying Islam is pagan. Many religious or spiritual system's copy certain practices simply because practices of worship are natural regardless of form.

Muslims do NOT worship the ka'bah.

Oh i looked that up a while ago to understand it purpose and i know fully well Islam forbids idolatry or shirk as you would say. Although i ask is there a Quran or Haddith that states why you face Qiblah? By using the word like Qiblah i have long since determined that your not worshiping the Kaaba since it is said "face Qiblah and prostrate" not "Prostrate to Kaaba" (which would be idolatry of course). So Kaaba worship would be strictly forbidden but Muslim only pray in a general direction. :statisfie

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

I think a better question would be 'what does pagan mean?' Allah is the one true god, God is the one true god..It is just the Arabic word for God. The word pagan refers to many various religions, mostly polytheistic in nature. Or simply nature based. Islam is not this at all. for more on what pagan is and the type of religions that tend to fall under that categorization.

Pagan actually refers to the old pre-Christian spirituality, panetheistic, polytheistic ancestry worship that existed. Now its used as a name to deface and degrade any religion that involves polytheism or idolatry basically. But im well aware Islam is not polytheistic but its roots in pre-Islamic times is what i "worried" about. I have basically ruled out paganism for Islam as of now i may add

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

the term ilah, means "god" as in anything you want to describe as "god",
the term Allah means the one and only God, there is no plural or gender splitting etc,
if the orientalists attempt to convince you that the one and only God is pagan, it's them you should be looking to, because for a Muslim, the One and only God is the creator of all that exists, and is not made of wood or stone.

Words in hebrew and Arabic are very literal and i find this to denounce the Allah is Sin (Sin =moon god or other deity) theory. Allah if i am correct is basically fusing al (meaning “the” or “of” i think) and lah (a possible affix tht would imply god or deity). For example cardio implies heart, by itself it has no meaning unless added with something like cardiology which is study of the heat. So if Allah means ‘The God” as in “The ‘one and only’ God” as we would imply in english that would just mean that Allah is the name given for any supreme god, implying no other is above him. Just like Abdullah means "servant of god". That name is fusing 'abd' meaning slave and 'allah' meaning The God. The old Arabic names were definitions and nothing more then a series of affixes to create a word just like modern english. It is like the old Native American languages, your name didnt have a meaning but instead it was the meaning. Your name could be "Sitting Duck" , not your name MEANS sitting duck but that your name IS Sitting Duck. Allah is not a definite name for the old pre-Islamic gods Hubal or Sin but just the generic name for any supreme god in Arabic. But Muhammad declares Allah is named Allah because no god is greater then him which is not far removed from what the bible says about Jehovah. So you cannot use vocabulary to say Allah is not Jehovah.

Allah swearing by the name of other idols(gods) is nothing more then God declaring he is greater than those idols or pagan gods. Reading the various other names of god mentioned in the Quran also back this up of course declaring Allah is above all others no different.

“For the LORD is the great God, the great King above all gods.” Palm 95:3

“Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” Exodus 20:3

That right there sounds an awful like Jehovah mentioning there are other gods beside him and the context can be taken as a swear. Christians read this and say it is a metaphorical statement meaning god is telling David the various god other worship are below him declaring God(Allah) as the one and only god. Should this be true but what makes the statements in the Quran anymore different? God in the bible states other gods in the sense of equality no different then Allah mentions similar words implying his own creations.

"If anybody has to take an oath, he should swear ONLY by Allah." (i do not know the Haddith but you folks are the Muslims so you should know)

So you can read these in many ways in a literal aspect or metaphorical implying God/Allah is simply declaring he is greater than the things he swears by sometimes. A typical human thinks of the moon as a magnificent force and God/Allah swearing by this could be written in the same way i have seen literature in the past written. Since Allah/ Al-Haliq created these things they can be of whatever importance or power he desires them to be. God/Allah would not say “i cannot make fire cold because the law of science says otherwise”. God/Allah is all powerful and his creations can be as worthless or meaningful as he wants them to be, God/Allah created the laws of science and rules that govern life and even mankind.So by a mono-pantheist interpretation it would be these creations are equal to god the same way the light bulb is equal to Edison, sure it allows him to see in the dark and he needs it but regardless it is Edison’s creation and he could make it “unexist” if he so desired. We are equal to what we create and perceive, a man invented the car and we say “a car is more powerful then a man” but in reality that man is more powerful then a car because he created the car in the first place. If God/Allah swears by something other then him it would be so because we cannot compare or relate God/Allah then what we know in material existence. This has been done in the Quran and Bible multiple times, God putting himself as equal to a god or swearing in something other then his name because both are by definition swearing or making an oath, since both Jehovah and Allah speak in absolute.

Is Allah the same as Jehovah based on this? If you ask me yes (and this is from a Christian)

Please understand i am a very analytical person and VERY familiar with language structure because i am a big reader and quite a nerd. I had THE HIGHEST vocabulary, grammar and literature scores in all my school growing up so dont read this thinking i dont know word structure. But please know i write by individualist verses and not as a whole and dont proof read out of laziness

 

[Insaanah]

Greetings

Although i ask is there a Quran or Haddith that states why you face Qiblah?

Have a read from this post onwards, it might help:

http://www.islamicboard.com/prayer/134297894-why-do-we-pray-towards-mecca.html#post1337622

 

[Insaanah]

Allah swearing by the name of other idols(gods) is nothing more then God declaring he is greater than those idols or pagan gods.

Allah doesn't swear by idols or other deities that people worship. Not in Islam, anyway.

Reading the various other names of god mentioned in the Quran also back this up of course

No. This is completely different. Allah's names describe His attributes, such as The Most Loving, The Most Forgiving, The Most Merciful, the All-Seeing, the All-Knowing etc. Or perhaps you meant something else here, in which case I couldn't make out what you meant.

That right there sounds an awful like Jehovah mentioning there are other gods beside him and the context can be taken as a swear.

In the Qur'an there are specific conditions that have to be met and words that have to be used for a swear or oath. No swear or oath or anything remotely close to that is ever made in the Qur'an regarding other deities that people worship.

This has been done in the Quran and Bible multiple times, God putting himself as equal to a god

No, not in the Qur'an. Allah NEVER puts Himself equal to any god, or deity, of any kind.

I'll quote again:

In Christianity, God is composed of three persons, the father, the son and the holy spirit. There is no such notion in Islam of God being a person or composed of persons at all, nor of Him being mixed up in His creation. He is One, in every sense, and there is nothing like Him.

• In Islam there is only One God, Who is our Creator and the Creator of the universe around us. He alone should be worshipped.
• He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, siblings, parents, cousins, nor relatives of any sort.
• He is eternal and does not die.
• There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful.
• He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, no intermediaries, and no denying of God's existence either.
• There are no sharers or associates whatsoever in His Exclusive Divinity, nor human manifestations of Him. Simply, He is One, in every sense.

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134312817-islam-christianity.html#post1515355

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "He is Allah, (the) One."Allah-us-Samad (السيد الذي يصمد إليه في الحاجات) [Allah the Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, (He neither eats nor drinks)]."He begets not, nor was He begotten. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him." [Al Qur'aan al Ikhlaas]

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134312818-allah-jehovah.html#post1515383

May I ask, how much of the Qur'an have you read?

dont proof read out of laziness

Please try to. If the opening posts (or any others) of the threads are lengthy, and require time to be spent to make sense of them, the longer they will take to be approved (assuming that all else is ok).

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

Allah doesn't swear by idols or other deities that people worship. Not in Islam, anyway.

I admit my statements are really off sorry but i do not mean Allah swore by idols literally. I am disproving the statement by Christians that when Allah swore by things such as planets and stars that he was mentioning pagan(astrological) gods. For example........
56:75 Nevertheless, I do take oath by the situation of the stars
70:40 But nay! I swear by the Lord of the rising-places and the setting-places of the planets that We verily are Able
But it is mentioned Allah controls these things hence the usage that he is lord over them. Lord implies ownership and ownership also implies creator so Allah is creator of these things and they are not gods in any shape or form. So basically i am proving your words right and i am not implying anything bad or negative. Although due my bad writing it says the opposite.

No. This is completely different. Allah's names describe His attributes, such as The Most Loving, The Most Forgiving, The Most Merciful, the All-Seeing, the All-Knowing etc. Or perhaps you meant something else here, in which case I couldn't make out what you meant.

"Most loving, Most Forgiving. Most Merciful". You just proved my point although i am sure i wrote it correctly. When you use the word MOST it implies others below you, you cannot say highest without the words higher and high. This would imply Allah is the Most Loving, Most Merciful etc. This means Allah is greater then all period, nobody is above him. The issue is a person worshipping a false god would of course say their god exist, say by saying "most" that would tell a person that their false god means nothing since Allah is not just Al Haqq or "The Truth" but the only god. So i understand you but know i am not putting Allah as equal to any god but i am saying he mentions other things to imply his greatest over them.

May I ask, how much of the Qur'an have you read?

I am on the 3rd Sura although i have read many other chapters i am reading in order this time and going along in complete order and unity instead of randomly.

I will try to proof read more because some sentences were meant to be replaced, also i saved the intended message i meant to post also but its to late now since i posted un-revised one

 

[CuriousIncident]

Sorry if this offends but I was wondering what the point is of converting to other religions if Muslims worship the same god as the Christians and Jews?

 

[Insaanah]

ShadowsAndDust, apologies if I misunderstood the points you were trying to make.

If there are any other points you want to make, please do post them. If you wanted to replace some sentences, let me know which ones, and what you want to replace them with, and I can edit your post to reflect that with the new sentences in a different colour, or have them as a separate post if you prefer.

Peace.