Allah is Jehovah?

[Insaanah]

Greeting CuriousIncident,

Sorry if this offends but I was wondering what the point is of converting to other religions if Muslims worship the same god as the Christians and Jews?

Christians say that they worship one God, yet they believe that Jesus is God, and God's begotten son at the same time, and worship him, along with God. Immediately you can see there's something wrong there, if you claim to believe in one God. They believe in a trinity and say that 3 =1. This is not taught by God, but made up in some councils 300 years after Jesus' (peace be upon him) departure from Earth. In Islam, the message is what always was since the beginning of time, the message sent by God, not one changed or made up by humans. A message that is logical and makes sense: 1=1.

See this post, it may answer it better: http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134312817-islam-christianity.html#post1515355
and this one: http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134312818-allah-jehovah.html#post1515383

With regards to the Jews, I don't know what their current belief is regarding God, but they reject many of the Prophets that God sent, including Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them both) and one cannot be a Muslim if one even so much as defames the character of a Prophet, let alone reject one.

Peace.

 

[CuriousIncident]

Greeting CuriousIncident,



Christians say that they worship one God, yet they believe that Jesus is God, and God's begotten son at the same time, and worship him, along with God. Immediately you can see there's something wrong there, if you claim to believe in one God. They believe in a trinity and say that 3 =1. This is not taught by God, but made up in some councils 300 years after Jesus' (peace be upon him) departure from Earth. In Islam, the message is what always was since the beginning of time, the message sent by God, not one changed or made up by humans. A message that is logical and makes sense: 1=1.

See this post, it may answer it better: http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134312817-islam-christianity.html#post1515355
and this one: http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134312818-allah-jehovah.html#post1515383

With regards to the Jews, I don't know what their current belief is regarding God, but they reject many of the Prophets that God sent, including Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them both) and one cannot be a Muslim if one even so much as defames the character of a Prophet, let alone reject one.

Peace.

Thank you

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

ShadowsAndDust, apologies if I misunderstood the points you were trying to make.

If there are any other points you want to make, please do post them. If you wanted to replace some sentences, let me know which ones, and what you want to replace them with, and I can edit your post to reflect that with the new sentences in a different colour, or have them as a separate post if you prefer.

Peace.

Ill go back through Microsoft Word and see if i can find the revised post i made. Ironically i couldnt think and didnt mark it so i will have to read through my scribbled writings and ramblings. Id like making it a separate thread since i feel that it ends the "Allah is Sin" debate :hmm:. Most people who convert to Islam think Allah is not the god of Moses without knowing Allah is also a generic name for God(monotheistic) in Arabic. They fall for the lies of Christians (no offence) trying to make Muslims look like idolaters which is ironically forbidden. Also i have a good feeling you just had Fadjr, am i correct? :statisfie

 

[Insaanah]

Id like making it a separate thread since i feel that it ends the "Allah is Sin" debate

If by Sin, you mean an ancient moon-god/sun-god, then the only debate was ever amongst Islam haters, with others asking simply to clarify any misconceptions they might have.

So, in effect, apart from amongst the Islam haters, that debate has already ended, if there ever was one, although in reality there is nothing to debate once the truth has been presented.

See this thread http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifications-about-islam/134310692-true-allah-ancient-moon-god.html, and all the links provided within it, one of which http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/moongod.html deals with sin and other moon-gods, and naming, in some detail. If anything's still unclear after reading those, then do ask, and we'll do our best to help.

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

If by Sin, you mean an ancient moon-god/sun-god, then the only debate was ever amongst Islam haters, with others asking simply to clarify any misconceptions they might have.

So, in effect, apart from amongst the Islam haters, that debate has already ended, if there ever was one, although in reality there is nothing to debate once the truth has been presented.

See this thread , and all the links provided within it, one of which deals with sin and other moon-gods, and naming, in some detail. If anything's still unclear after reading those, then do ask, and we'll do our best to help.

You have done your best to help trust me. Ive known about Sin and various moon deities such as Tsukuyomi, Chandra, Wadd, Phobis and Artemis. Christians are very hateful which is why i dont really associate with them or go to churches. Ive figured id just find another religion that hasnt been corrupted with 2,000 years of filth and i still find Islam to be a better source of wisdom and spirituality then any other :statisfie . Sooner or later i will convert in due time. I know i have bothered you a lot most likely and i apologize for any trouble

 

[GodIsOne]

It's kind of a redundant question but I'll bite anyways:

The Qu'ran states that there have been many prophets, many of which could not have had anything to do with Ibrahim or Israel. All of these prophets have followed the monotheism of the Qu'ran but their messages have rarely survived due to things like Persecution. Monotheism is by no means unique to Ibrahim, but we believe in the covenant that god made with Ibrahim/Moses/David etc. It was Ibrahim's monotheism that survived thousands of years of persecution and idolatry(by the children of Israel). The hebrew prophets continually preached the oneness of god and to refrain from idolatry right up to Yeshua(Isa) who fulfilled the covenant with god but his message was perverted which is why Allah chose Muhammed to revive the original uncorrupted monotheism of Ibrahim.

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

The hebrew prophets continually preached the oneness of god and to refrain from idolatry right up to Yeshua(Isa) who fulfilled the covenant with god but his message was perverted which is why Allah chose Muhammed to revive the original uncorrupted monotheism of Ibrahim.

Just my opinion right on the spot. You can find lists of detailed corruption of the Bible to fit western standards since politics used religion as a political tool whil in most of Asia its the other way around. Politics are built from religion and ethics. The only real debate anti-Islamist have is that Allah is Sin or Hubal and that debate is proven false and thrown out the window. After that they just compare Islam to the Bible which we know is corrupt, which doesn't prove much for factual evidence. Hopefully i can make a good choice and convert until then I'll live my last life of debauchery :statisfie .

 

[GodIsOne]

Most people who convert to Islam think Allah is not the god of Moses without knowing Allah is also a generic name for God

Where did you get this brilliant idea from? It's quite offensive that you regard converts as being this ignorant... << is a convert

"There is no god but God" << Please tell me how a Muslim can say this and yet think that the god in the Torah is unique without being Polytheist? (assuming they don't know the arabic word Allah)

 

[Insaanah]

Sooner or later i will convert in due time.

May Allah make it easy for you, and guide you to the truth, ameen.

I know i have bothered you a lot most likely and i apologize for any trouble

Not at all, we're here to answer your questions to the best of our ability so that you can learn.

Most people who convert to Islam think Allah is not the god of Moses without knowing Allah is also a generic name for God(monotheistic) in Arabic. They fall for the lies of Christians (no offence) trying to make Muslims look like idolaters which is ironically forbidden.

With regards to the point GodIsOne made above, he is right in that most reverts do know that Allah is not only the God of Moses (peace be upon him), but that of ALL the prophets (peace be upon them). To revert to Islam, (and I use that term deliberately rather than convert) you not only have to believe in One God with no associates in His Divinity, but also, you have to believe that God sent ALL the Prophets (including Moses, peace be upon him) to guide and warn humanity. Reverts tend to be attracted by the concept of God in Islam (amongst many other things), and will know before they revert, that Allah is God, the God of all the Prophets, without necessarily knowing that Allah is a generic term for God in Arabic that could be used by Arab Christians too.

When you take the shahaadah, to become a Muslim, and you declare in Arabic laa ilaaha illAllah, Muhammadun rasoolullah, meaning There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, you're saying there's no God but Allah, and that Muhammad is His Messenger, then it follows that all the other Messengers were sent by Allah too, and that Allah is their God. As I said before, many reverts do not know that Allah can be used as a generic name for God in Arabic.

I don't think most Christians try to make Muslims look like idolaters, as they know that's not the case, but it's a small minority that do.

Peace.

 

[Muhaba]

Allah is One God. He is single and Unique. He is not composed of beings such as in the trinity belief.

Allah is the name of God in Arabic. He was the God of Abraham and He is also the God of the Jews and Christians. Arab Christians call God by the name Allah so this name is not only limited to Muslims.

some people trying to defame islam and take people away from Islam have written articles claiming that the God the muslims worship is the pagan God because He was the God worshipped by Meccan idolators. these people claim that the muslims took the name Allah from them, but the fact is that God's name was always Allah. that is why Christian arabs also call Him by the name Allah. if you listen to an arabic christian sermon you will see that they use the name Allah for God.

so where did islam-haters get the story of the pagan God? The truth is that all idolators believe in one God whom they believe to be the creator of the world. idolators, including Meccan idolators, didn't believe that more than one God created the universe. they believed in One God and believed that all the other gods (idols) were only intercessors that brought them close to God and that helped them get their prayers and wishes accepted. (I heard that hindus also believe this. they believe in one Creator of the world and many intercessors). Since Meccan idolators believed in Allah to be the Creator, and the Muslims also believe in Allah as their creator, islam-haters use this to call Allah a pagan God. but like i already said, Allah is not a pagan God. Arab christians also call God Allah and many idolatrious religions believe in one Creator.

the islamic belief is in no way pagan. we muslims believe in One God who is the Creator of the universe. We also believe that God Allah has no helpers or partners and He doesn't need them because He is All-Powerful. We don't believe in the need for intercessors. If we want to reach God to get God's help, have our prayers answered, we do it directly. if someone goes to an idol or grave or even a living person and asks them to help them, with the belief that they have the power to get our prayers answered, that amounts to polytheism. There is absolutely no paganism in Islamic beliefs.

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

Where did you get this brilliant idea from? It's quite offensive that you regard converts as being this ignorant... << is a convert

"There is no god but God" << Please tell me how a Muslim can say this and yet think that the god in the Torah is unique without being Polytheist? (assuming they don't know the arabic word Allah)

Ehhh bad writing dude. "People who wish to convert to Islam" thats what i meant. And i know what Allah is in Arabic and im not quoting my own ideas, im quoting those of Christian's/Atheist who do not like Islam. My post is rather clear "Allah is the same god of Abraham for the Bible and Quran". Case closed wish i am sure you can agree with :statisfie. People start interpreting Allah is romanized Arabic and use the english words and not Arabic word structure. So i basically supported you by saying Allah is the same Abrahamic god, so you should be happy

 

[MustafaMc]

From wikipedia, "Paganism is a blanket term, typically used to refer to religious traditions which are polytheistic or indigenous. It is primarily used in a historical context, referring to Greco-Roman polytheism as well as the polytheistic traditions of Europe and North Africa before Christianization. In a wider sense, extended to contemporary religions, it includes most of the Eastern religions and the indigenous traditions of the Americas, Central Asia, Australia, and Africa; as well as non-Abrahamic folk religion in general."

God - the uncaused Cause for all that exists - Eternal, Absolute. In Arabic God is known as 'Allah' which means 'The God'. I have an English translation of the Aramaic NT and it transliterates the name of God as 'Allaha'. I believe that God exists outside of our limited realm of existence which is that of space and time while at the same time He is fully aware of everything we do, say or think. Our human minds cannot comprehend God's existence beyond what He has revealed to us. This is reflected in the Quran 2:255, "And they do not comprehend anything of His knowledge-except that which He wills." God is known through His revealed attributes or 'Names' such as The Merciful, The Most Compassionate, The All-Aware, The All-Knowing, The Judge, The Forgiving, The Most High, The Most Holy, and The Creator. Surah Ikhlas (112), in its simplicity, is the best descriptor of God, "Say: He is God, One. God, the Everlasting Refuge. He does not beget, nor is He begotten, and there is none comparable to Him."

My concept, or understanding, of God is strictly monotheistic which precludes Him from having a father, mother, son, daughter, partner, or equal as the Quran 19:35 says, "It is not for God to take any son. Highly exalted is He above this! When He decrees a matter, He but says to it 'Be!' and so it is." I don't feel as though I have a 'personal relationship' with God other than as a creature to his Creator, a servant to his Master, and a worshiper to the Worshiped. The Quran establishes this relationship in 51:56 "I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me."

Regarding the opening question, I as a Muslim believe in the same God that:

• told Adam, "...you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..." Genesis 3:17
• told Noah, "So make yourself an ark of cypress wood..." Genesis 6:14
• told Abraham, "Take your son, your only son Isaac, (Ishmael in the Quran) whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there..." Genesis 22:2
• told Jacob, "...I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac..." Genesis 28:13
• led Joseph into Egypt, "...because it was to save lives that God sent me ahead of you..." Genesis 45:5
• told Moses through the burning bush, "...Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground." Exodus 3:5
• told Jonah, "Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it..." Jonah 1:1
• Jesus prayed to in Gethsemane, "...My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as You will." Matthew 26:39

 

[MustafaMc]

Sorry if this offends but I was wondering what the point is of converting to other religions if Muslims worship the same god as the Christians and Jews?

The point is that both Judaism and Christianity as well as their religious texts have changed from what their original prophets revealed for them to believe and how to worship God. The Quran and Islam have been preserved intact since the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). For example we pray exactly as he prayed and taught his companions to pray reciting portions of the Quran in Arabic. The Quran 3:85 says, If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

Allah is One God. He is single and Unique. He is not composed of beings such as in the trinity belief.

Allah is the name of God in Arabic. He was the God of Abraham and He is also the God of the Jews and Christians. Arab Christians call God by the name Allah so this name is not only limited to Muslims.

some people trying to defame islam and take people away from Islam have written articles claiming that the God the muslims worship is the pagan God because He was the God worshipped by Meccan idolators. these people claim that the muslims took the name Allah from them, but the fact is that God's name was always Allah. that is why Christian arabs also call Him by the name Allah. if you listen to an arabic christian sermon you will see that they use the name Allah for God.

so where did islam-haters get the story of the pagan God? The truth is that all idolators believe in one God whom they believe to be the creator of the world. idolators, including Meccan idolators, didn't believe that more than one God created the universe. they believed in One God and believed that all the other gods (idols) were only intercessors that brought them close to God and that helped them get their prayers and wishes accepted. (I heard that hindus also believe this. they believe in one Creator of the world and many intercessors). Since Meccan idolators believed in Allah to be the Creator, and the Muslims also believe in Allah as their creator, islam-haters use this to call Allah a pagan God. but like i already said, Allah is not a pagan God. Arab christians also call God Allah and many idolatrious religions believe in one Creator.

the islamic belief is in no way pagan. we muslims believe in One God who is the Creator of the universe. We also believe that God Allah has no helpers or partners and He doesn't need them because He is All-Powerful. We don't believe in the need for intercessors. If we want to reach God to get God's help, have our prayers answered, we do it directly. if someone goes to an idol or grave or even a living person and asks them to help them, with the belief that they have the power to get our prayers answered, that amounts to polytheism. There is absolutely no paganism in Islamic beliefs.

you couldn't have said it better ;D. What would be the purpose of Muhammad(pbuh) destroying the "360" idols of Kaaba and reclaiming it.

 

[BadOlPuttyTat]

God - the uncaused Cause for all that exists - Eternal, Absolute. In Arabic God is known as 'Allah' which means 'The God'. I have an English translation of the Aramaic NT and it transliterates the name of God as 'Allaha'. I believe that God exists outside of our limited realm of existence which is that of space and time while at the same time He is fully aware of everything we do, say or think. Our human minds cannot comprehend God's existence beyond what He has revealed to us. This is reflected in the Quran 2:255, "And they do not comprehend anything of His knowledge-except that which He wills." God is known through His revealed attributes or 'Names' such as The Merciful, The Most Compassionate, The All-Aware, The All-Knowing, The Judge, The Forgiving, The Most High, The Most Holy, and The Creator. Surah Ikhlas (112), in its simplicity, is the best descriptor of God, "Say: He is God, One. God, the Everlasting Refuge. He does not beget, nor is He begotten, and there is none comparable to Him."

My concept, or understanding, of God is strictly monotheistic which precludes Him from having a father, mother, son, daughter, partner, or equal as the Quran 19:35 says, "It is not for God to take any son. Highly exalted is He above this! When He decrees a matter, He but says to it 'Be!' and so it is." I don't feel as though I have a 'personal relationship' with God other than as a creature to his Creator, a servant to his Master, and a worshiper to the Worshiped. The Quran establishes this relationship in 51:56 "I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me."

One thing you may understand. Jesus was never the literal son of god. The depiction was the fact that he came from god as we all know he came from a virgin birth. Jesus was "created" by god, not in the sense that god came down and procreated with Maryam and begot a son in such a manner. But Jesus was implanted into her, you cant read this as "Jesus is the literal son of god" but he was created by him none the less. Good evidence backing this up from original text i may add . So by definition, any Christian should no

(1)Jesus is the son of god the same way an inventor calls his creations his children (i have done the same). In the bible is it often said that we are the children of god or god our father. This is not in a literal definition.

(2) The bible does not declare Jesus is divine or god and any statement is of course corrupt. God worked through Jesus and if that is so he is no god by any means nor Jehovah on earth. There are numerous points in the bible when Jesus PRAYED TO GOD! So how can you be god and be praying to him if your god. ^o). That would make no sense, it would be like me picking my phone up and calling myself on my other phone. There is a word for such behavior and its called "retarded" or "insanely lonely" and we know Jesus was neither of these, so obviously somebody made a mistake.