As Salaam Alaikum my question is many people that are Pro Israel talk about and cry a

[truthseeker63]

As Salaam Alaikum my question is many people that are Pro Israel talk about and cry about Palestinian Violence against Israelis but I think Palestinian Violence against Israelis is a Response to Israeli Violence against Palestinians no one forced the Jews/Zionists/Settlers to settle in Palestine and steal from and murder and run out the Palestinians in 1948 and build Settlements found a Jewish State and so on and so on the point is it is important to look at the context of the Palestinian Violence in my view it is the law of cause and effect and many Israeli Soldiers go into the Civilian Areas and so on the Jewish Settlers are really Soldiers in a sense they can be drafted or go into the Army anytime they carry guns and pay taxes vote and support their Army given the fact they are living or land they did steal they are not really Civilians if Israel wanted peace they would leave Palestine anyone agree with my point of view thank you I found this link to make my point.
　
Israeli Massacres:
Details and Numbers
Although the Image that Israel distributes about herself is that of an oppressed nation, it is with heavy hearts that we present these crimes that stand for themselves for the brutality of the Israeli Army and the heartlessness of its soldiers who seem to have a thirst for blood. It is for the hope that the world may see a clearer picture that we present these painful facts. It is interesting to notice that today's media does not dwell on these crimes as they do on the Holocaust. Some of the brutal acts may be lightly covered in the news for a week or two and then swept into the sea of oblivion. Those who attempt to revive the true history of Israel are charged with being anti-Semitic. So with the hope to keep those memories in mind we present this shameful history of Israel that seems to have found that the role of Goliath is more interesting than that of David.
　
The following list of massacres is by no means exclusive, but they reflect the nature of the Zionist occupation of Palestine and Lebanon and show that massacres and expulsions were not aberrations that happen in any war, but organized atrocities with only one aim, that is to have a Zionist state which is 'goyim rein'.
http://www.seek-info.com/massacres.htm

 

[Ahmad H]

It's no surprise Israel is the one committing the crimes. However, the Palestinian response is mostly foolish. I thought that when people were at way they would attack the attackers, meaning the soldiers who are committing the atrocities. Even if civilians are drafted into the army, which they are. There is a point at which their service ends and they enter public life. In public life, it is not just ex-soldiers who live in the society, but children and other innocents as well. Not every person in Israel has been in the army. Therefore, attacking the public is not a way to weaken that country's power. Attacking their army would be better.

But here is the problem with attacking their army - they are too POWERFUL. To be honest, there is nothing the Palestinians can do. I wish they could scare Israel due to their power, but they cannot. They simply do not have the technology. Israel has their "Iron Wall" policy, where they keep themselves more powerful than everyone else and have sanctions on all countries that could rise up against them, while they get support by military and financial aid from First World countries. The Palestinians can barely get the food and materials they need to survive. On top of that, there is many more of them than there are Israelis, so their resources are scarce.

So, Palestine is too weak to take on Israel. It is up to Iran to become a nuclear power first before the Arab states can have an edge against Israel. Until that time comes, we can only pray Israel is stopped by some miracle in their atrocities against the Palestinians. The problem is only that the major superpowers are letting all of this happen.

Thus, Palestinians should not use violence against Israel. It will only make things worse, as bad as they are. I know that is easier said than done since I have not suffered what they have, but prayers are their only recourse now. If the Palestinians resort to praying and focusing only on their survival, then I am sure they will be helped. But killing innocent civilians is also Haram, even if they were ex-soldiers. Only soldiers should be attacked since they are the hands who commit these crimes.

 

[GodIsAll]

Imagine the world today if Allied forces had taken German land to relocate Israel. Wasn't that the nation responsible for the holocaust?

 

[sister herb]

A nation responsible to cause a holocaust to the Palestinians whose now have suffered about this "great action"? ^o)

 

[truthseeker63]

Ahmad H I agree that attacking innocent civilians is wrong even israeli civilians my point is that I can undersatand why the palestinians respond in that way Im not saying that its a good thing but I still have to blame a certain ammount of blame on the foreign policy also in a perfect world only the Soldiers would be harmed or targeted also I believe Israel may no exist in the future maybe it is Prophecy or in God's plan ?

 

[h-n]

It's no surprise Israel is the one committing the crimes. However, the Palestinian response is mostly foolish. I thought that when people were at way they would attack the attackers, meaning the soldiers who are committing the atrocities. Even if civilians are drafted into the army, which they are. There is a point at which their service ends and they enter public life. In public life, it is not just ex-soldiers who live in the society, but children and other innocents as well. Not every person in Israel has been in the army. Therefore, attacking the public is not a way to weaken that country's power. Attacking their army would be better.

But here is the problem with attacking their army - they are too POWERFUL. To be honest, there is nothing the Palestinians can do. I wish they could scare Israel due to their power, but they cannot. They simply do not have the technology. Israel has their "Iron Wall" policy, where they keep themselves more powerful than everyone else and have sanctions on all countries that could rise up against them, while they get support by military and financial aid from First World countries. The Palestinians can barely get the food and materials they need to survive. On top of that, there is many more of them than there are Israelis, so their resources are scarce.

So, Palestine is too weak to take on Israel. It is up to Iran to become a nuclear power first before the Arab states can have an edge against Israel. Until that time comes, we can only pray Israel is stopped by some miracle in their atrocities against the Palestinians. The problem is only that the major superpowers are letting all of this happen.

Thus, Palestinians should not use violence against Israel. It will only make things worse, as bad as they are. I know that is easier said than done since I have not suffered what they have, but prayers are their only recourse now. If the Palestinians resort to praying and focusing only on their survival, then I am sure they will be helped. But killing innocent civilians is also Haram, even if they were ex-soldiers. Only soldiers should be attacked since they are the hands who commit these crimes.

Not that I'm supporting any wars (reasons already stated on previous threads), but what you stated is incorrect;-

Allah didn't say that we only fight those who you think are "weaker" then you.

Allah did not say that make sure you have more weapons, and troops then the wrongdoers-that is a condition of fighting against oppressors.

Even the Battle of Badr is an example, strive in the way of Islam and Allah supports those that do-THAT is all the support we need and no matter how many weapons people have and just as those who came with the elephants it will not avail them. What do people think that would happen if Israel would wipe out the Muslims and that Allah will just let them continue?? This is a test. It is not for us to be like those who feared the authorities at the time of the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him.

We only fear Allah. We do not let whatever the evil doers have cloud our judgement on what we can do, No Muslim would ever say that Israel is "powerful", only Allah is, and it is his by his leave that allows them to continue. Not even anyone would say that Satan is "powerful" and he lives till the end times. So its not for you to teach people to fear fighting if they are being persecuted.

 

[Ahmad H]

Not that I'm supporting any wars (reasons already stated on previous threads), but what you stated is incorrect;-

Allah didn't say that we only fight those who you think are "weaker" then you.

Allah did not say that make sure you have more weapons, and troops then the wrongdoers-that is a condition of fighting against oppressors.

Even the Battle of Badr is an example, strive in the way of Islam and Allah supports those that do-THAT is all the support we need and no matter how many weapons people have and just as those who came with the elephants it will not avail them. What do people think that would happen if Israel would wipe out the Muslims and that Allah will just let them continue?? This is a test. It is not for us to be like those who feared the authorities at the time of the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him.

We only fear Allah. We do not let whatever the evil doers have cloud our judgement on what we can do, No Muslim would ever say that Israel is "powerful", only Allah is, and it is his by his leave that allows them to continue. Not even anyone would say that Satan is "powerful" and he lives till the end times. So its not for you to teach people to fear fighting if they are being persecuted.

It is not wrong that people are called powerful. Have you not read the lengthy Sahih Hadith on Gog and Magog and Dajjal which said:

"and it would be under such conditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from amongst My servants such people against whom none would be able to fight; you take these people safely to Tur, and then Allah would send Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope."
(Sahih Muslim, Hadith #7015)

You must have heard what Sheikh Imran Hosein has said, that he believes Muslims cannot fight Israel because they are Gog and Magog. He said that Allah advised the Muslims not to fight them because of this. I don't necessarily agree with everything this Sheikh says, but if you are implying I am not Muslim because I said Israel is "powerful", then what do you say of Sheikh Imran Hosein and those who hold this belief like him? Because they say someone is powerful they are suddenly non-believers and have become wrongdoers themselves?

And is the Muslims calling themselves powerful due to others so wrong? I advise you to seriously reconsider your statements. Read these Ahadith:

Narrated Abdullah: We have been powerful since 'Umar embraced Islam. (Book #57, Hadith #33)
(Sahih Bukhari)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "While I was sleeping, I saw myself (in a dream) standing by a well. I drew from it as much water as Allah wished me to draw, and then Ibn Quhafa (Abu Bakr) took the bucket from me and drew one or two buckets, and there was weakness in his drawing----may Allah forgive him! Then 'Umar took the bucket which turned into something like a big drum. I had never seen a powerful man among the people working as perfectly and vigorously as he did. (He drew so much water that) the people drank to their satisfaction and watered their camels that knelt down there. (See Hadith No. 16, Vol. 5) (Book#93, Hadith #567)
(Sahih Bukhari)

It has been narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik who said: On the Day of Ubud some of the people, being defeated, left the Holy Prophet (may peace he upon him), but Abu Talha stood before him covering him with a shield. Abu Talha was a powerful archer who broke two or three bows that day. When a man would pass by carrying a quiver containing arrows, he would say: Spare them for Abu Talha. Whenever the Holy Prophet (way peace be upon him) raised his head to look at the people, Abd Talba would say: Prophet of Allah, may my father and my mother be thy ransom, do not raise your head lest you be struck by an arrow shot by the enemy. My neck is before your neck. The narrator said: I saw A'isha bint Abu Bakr and Umm Sulaim. Both of them had tucked up their garments, so I could me the anklets on their feet. They were carrying water-skins on their backs and would pour water into the mouths of the people. They would then go back (to the well), would fill them again and would return to pour water into the mouths of the soldiers. (On this day). Abu Talha's sword dropped down from his hands twice or thrice because of drowsiness. (Book #019, Hadith #4455)
(Sahih Muslim)

Using the term "powerful" for someone is not wrong. What is wrong is to attribute power to anyone else besides Allah. The du'a goes "there is no power except in Allah". This does not mean Allah does not make people powerful. As the Holy Prophet (saw) said, Allah would say that He Himself created people so powerful in the Latter Days, that the Muslims would not be able to fight.

And I did not say that Palestinians should not fight back at all. Read my last lines, I said they should only target soldiers.

 

[truthseeker63]

True Ahmad H

 

[h-n]

It is not wrong that people are called powerful. Have you not read the lengthy Sahih Hadith on Gog and Magog and Dajjal which said:

"and it would be under such conditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from amongst My servants such people against whom none would be able to fight; you take these people safely to Tur, and then Allah would send Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope."
(Sahih Muslim, Hadith #7015)

You must have heard what Sheikh Imran Hosein has said, that he believes Muslims cannot fight Israel because they are Gog and Magog. He said that Allah advised the Muslims not to fight them because of this. I don't necessarily agree with everything this Sheikh says, but if you are implying I am not Muslim because I said Israel is "powerful", then what do you say of Sheikh Imran Hosein and those who hold this belief like him? Because they say someone is powerful they are suddenly non-believers and have become wrongdoers themselves?

And is the Muslims calling themselves powerful due to others so wrong? I advise you to seriously reconsider your statements. Read these Ahadith:

Narrated Abdullah: We have been powerful since 'Umar embraced Islam. (Book #57, Hadith #33)
(Sahih Bukhari)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "While I was sleeping, I saw myself (in a dream) standing by a well. I drew from it as much water as Allah wished me to draw, and then Ibn Quhafa (Abu Bakr) took the bucket from me and drew one or two buckets, and there was weakness in his drawing----may Allah forgive him! Then 'Umar took the bucket which turned into something like a big drum. I had never seen a powerful man among the people working as perfectly and vigorously as he did. (He drew so much water that) the people drank to their satisfaction and watered their camels that knelt down there. (See Hadith No. 16, Vol. 5) (Book#93, Hadith #567)
(Sahih Bukhari)

It has been narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik who said: On the Day of Ubud some of the people, being defeated, left the Holy Prophet (may peace he upon him), but Abu Talha stood before him covering him with a shield. Abu Talha was a powerful archer who broke two or three bows that day. When a man would pass by carrying a quiver containing arrows, he would say: Spare them for Abu Talha. Whenever the Holy Prophet (way peace be upon him) raised his head to look at the people, Abd Talba would say: Prophet of Allah, may my father and my mother be thy ransom, do not raise your head lest you be struck by an arrow shot by the enemy. My neck is before your neck. The narrator said: I saw A'isha bint Abu Bakr and Umm Sulaim. Both of them had tucked up their garments, so I could me the anklets on their feet. They were carrying water-skins on their backs and would pour water into the mouths of the people. They would then go back (to the well), would fill them again and would return to pour water into the mouths of the soldiers. (On this day). Abu Talha's sword dropped down from his hands twice or thrice because of drowsiness. (Book #019, Hadith #4455)
(Sahih Muslim)

Using the term "powerful" for someone is not wrong. What is wrong is to attribute power to anyone else besides Allah. The du'a goes "there is no power except in Allah". This does not mean Allah does not make people powerful. As the Holy Prophet (saw) said, Allah would say that He Himself created people so powerful in the Latter Days, that the Muslims would not be able to fight.

And I did not say that Palestinians should not fight back at all. Read my last lines, I said they should only target soldiers.

Using the Gog and Magog is incorrect, as there is no war to fight between them and the Muslims, as Allah has allowed them to take over lands for an appointed time. You have bypassed the points completely were you are afraid of fighting against Israel as you see them as a powerful and strong army, when they are not, as they are not in favour with Allah.

If you really agree with using the word powerful , then why don't you simply say that Satan is powerful too if you willing to use that term with Israel??

I never use and WILL NEVER USE THAT WORD FOR ANYONE BUT only with God (regardless of who used it in the past or how they translated it over time). Only Allah is Powerful were its with Allah's permission that even the Prophets were able to do things ie Prophet Moses peace be upon him's staff turning to a snake etc.

Regardless of your answer as you are bypass, can't even keep to the points, and just quote anything that isn't translated properly, just see you on the Day of Judgement, I just thank Allah that we're not directly related to each other (so I don't actually see you), thankfully I'm not a moderator were I wouldn't even be able to say this.

 

[h-n]

True Ahmad H

As you agree (I have no problem whatsoever with that), but can you explain why your even bothering about talking about the above situation??? Why not say that the Palestinians should just give up their conflicts and be done with it?? As you support the idea that the Israelis are more "powerful".

I'm more specifically not a time waster of people (so I am more to the point), so what is it that you want people to do?? Or is it that you wish to gossip to enlist an emotional response (hence its also idle chit chat)? If you are one to say that anyone can make a difference, then I'm sure that you are not the only one who stated that, so you already have similar people of views so why don't you go out and make a difference RIGHT NOW! Instead of talking about it.

 

[Ahmad H]

You have bypassed the points completely were you are afraid of fighting against Israel as you see them as a powerful and strong army, when they are not, as they are not in favour with Allah.

Correct, power lies only in the hands of Allah. But, Allah gives power to whomsoever He wills, sometimes this means the wrongdoers and disbelievers have it for a while. He has given power to many people in this world, such as authority, armies, money, etc. Power only lies with Allah, but He uses it as He wills.

It seems you are in denial that Allah could ever give power to any disbelievers, this is why I used the Gog and Magog quote. I mentioned that a scholar, such as Sheikh Imran Hosein, said that he thinks Israel is also Gog and Magog, along with with West. Whether you agree with him or disagree with him, it means Allah gives power to disbelievers if He wishes to do so. But the power itself is always in Allah's Hands.

Perhaps you don't seem to grasp this reality with the Ahadith, because you don't see Gog and Magog as Israel right now. Fine, I accept that you have your own opinion on this and so you don't see this connection. But the Holy Qur'an states:

9:69 Like those before you: they were mightier than you in power, and more abundant in wealth and children. They had enjoyed their portion (awhile), so enjoy your portion (awhile) as those before you enjoyed their portion (awhile); and you indulged in play and pastime (and in telling lies against Allah and His Messenger Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) as they indulged in play and pastime. Such are they whose deeds are in vain in this world and in the Hereafter. Such are they who are the losers.

Tafsir al-Jalalayn on verse 9:69
You, O hypocrites, are, like those before you, who were far mightier than you, and more abundant in wealth and children. They enjoyed their share, their lot in this world. So you enjoy, O hypocrites, your share, just as those before you enjoyed their share, and you indulge [in vain talk], in falsehood and defamation of the Prophet (s), just as they indulged [in vain talk]. Those, their works have become invalid in this world and in the Hereafter; and those, they indeed are the losers.

Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas on verse 9:69
(Even as those) even as the punishment of those (before you) of hypocrites who (were mightier than you in strength) physically, (and more affluent than you in wealth and children. They enjoyed their lot awhile) they expend their share of the Hereafter in the life of this world, (so ye enjoy your lot awhile) you expended your share of the Hereafter in the life of this world (even as those before you) of hypocrites (did enjoy) expend (their lot awhile) their share of the Hereafter in the life of this world. (And ye prate) speak falsehood (even as they prated) and inwardly gave the lie to Muhammad (pbuh) just as those before them indulged in falsehood and gave the lie to the prophets of Allah. (Such are they whose works have perished) their good works have been thwarted (in the world and the Hereafter. Such are they who are the losers) in that they will face punishment.

I hope the Tafsir made it painfully clear to you, that the hypocrites, who are people posing to be believers but are in reality disbelievers, had power in the past, and they did so during the time of the Holy Prophet (saw). Allah allows these people power for some time, then He takes it away. And let's be clear here, a Munafiq is not a Mu'min. Because you are differentiating that Mu'minun are given power while munafiqeen and kafireen are never given power by Allah.

Now, coming back to the Gog and Magog example, which you said was out of place, says the same thing about future disbelievers. They will spread all over the world and they will gain dominance over the people of the earth and attempt to conquer Heaven itself by throwing arrows at the sky. Allah tells Isa (as), that the believers cannot fight Gog and Magog, instead they should go to Tur and pray there. Allah would give them deliverance.

The subtle point here is that "power" is always in Allah's Hands, the disbelievers in this world are given power and dominance for some time, then they are punished by Allah and are shown how little their power was.

Another Hadith states:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Paradise and the Fire (Hell) argued, and the Fire (Hell) said, "I have been given the privilege of receiving the arrogant and the tyrants.' Paradise said, 'What is the matter with me? Why do only the weak and the humble among the people enter me?' On that, Allah said to Paradise. 'You are My Mercy which I bestow on whoever I wish of my servants.' Then Allah said to the (Hell) Fire, 'You are my (means of) punishment by which I punish whoever I wish of my slaves. And each of you will have its fill.' As for the Fire (Hell), it will not be filled till Allah puts His Foot over it whereupon it will say, 'Qati! Qati!' At that time it will be filled, and its different parts will come closer to each other; and Allah will not wrong any of His created beings. As regards Paradise, Allah will create a new creation to fill it with." (Book #60, Hadith #373)
(Sahih Bukhari)

So Paradise is filled with the weak and humble, while Hell has arrogant and powerful people. Despite this, another Hadith states how Allah shows people that the kingdom of the Heavens and the earth are always in His Hands despite the power of the disbelievers:

Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "Allah will hold the whole earth, and roll all the heavens up in His Right Hand, and then He will say, 'I am the King; where are the kings of the earth?"' (Book #60, Hadith #336)
(Sahih Bukhari)

The Qur'an also says in another verse:

35:44 Have they not travelled in the land, and seen what was the end of those before them - though they were superior to them in power? Allah is not such that anything in the heavens or in the earth escapes Him. Verily, He is All-Knowing, All-Omnipotent.

Thus, we cannot deny that the disbelievers possessed power in this world. Allah gave them that power. But Allah takes that power away when a Messenger comes because they reject that Messenger of Allah. Allah gives only to those who believe, and He takes away from the disbelievers:

35:10 Whosoever desires honour, (power and glory), then to Allah belong all honour, power and glory [and one can get honour, power and glory only by obeying and worshipping Allah (Alone)]. To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it (i.e. the goodly words are not accepted by Allah unless and until they are followed by good deeds), but those who plot evils, theirs will be severe torment. And the plotting of such will perish.

Therefore, the lesson is that the power of the disbelievers is only for a short while. Allah gives them respite for some time, then He punishes them and takes away those blessings which they were ungrateful for. This is also spoken of in Surah Al-Kahf:

18:6 Thou wouldst only, perchance, fret thyself to death, following after them, in grief, if they believe not in this Message.
18:7 That which is on earth we have made but as a glittering show for the earth, in order that We may test them - as to which of them are best in conduct.
18:8 Verily what is on earth we shall make but as dust and dry soil (without growth or herbage).

So, whenever Allah wills, He can take away the power of the Israelis. He sent His Mercy on the Jews, after they suffered in the holocaust, and if they are ungrateful towards Allah, and they do not act with justice in the world, then Allah will remove their power from them and scatter them in this world and make them weak and without power once again just like it happened twice before (17:4-8).

One last point, there is a well-known Hadith, which I am posting from one website that is mentioned even in Mujahid's Tafsir of the Qur'an:
It is related that the Prophet (saas) said: “Two believers have ruled the world, and two unbelievers. The believers are Sulayman (as) and Dhul’qarnayn. The unbelievers are Nemrud and Nebuchadnezzar. The fifth, the Mahdi descended from my line, will also rule the world.”
Source: http://www.mahdiaccordingtofoursunnischools.com/kutubasitta.php

Rulers have power. Two of them were unbelievers yet they ruled the world. They were given temporary power. Everlasting peace and power is what Allah gives to the believers.

 

[Trumble]

So, Palestine is too weak to take on Israel. It is up to Iran to become a nuclear power first before the Arab states can have an edge against Israel. Until that time comes, we can only pray Israel is stopped by some miracle in their atrocities against the Palestinians.

Well, I liked your post up until this bit, anyway. A Mutually Assured Destruction scenario works almost as well for Israel as being the sole nuclear power in the region. I say 'almost' as there is one scenario that it is very, very bad for Israel. But as that scenario involves reducing the whole of Israel/Palestine to a radioactive slag-heap, it doesn't exactly do much for the Palestinians either. Those that are left, that is.

 

[h-n]

Correct, power lies only in the hands of Allah. But, Allah gives power to whomsoever He wills, sometimes this means the wrongdoers and disbelievers have it for a while. He has given power to many people in this world, such as authority, armies, money, etc. Power only lies with Allah, but He uses it as He wills.

It seems you are in denial that Allah could ever give power to any disbelievers, this is why I used the Gog and Magog quote. I mentioned that a scholar, such as Sheikh Imran Hosein, said that he thinks Israel is also Gog and Magog, along with with West. Whether you agree with him or disagree with him, it means Allah gives power to disbelievers if He wishes to do so. But the power itself is always in Allah's Hands.

Perhaps you don't seem to grasp this reality with the Ahadith, because you don't see Gog and Magog as Israel right now. Fine, I accept that you have your own opinion on this and so you don't see this connection. But the Holy Qur'an states:

9:69 Like those before you: they were mightier than you in power, and more abundant in wealth and children. They had enjoyed their portion (awhile), so enjoy your portion (awhile) as those before you enjoyed their portion (awhile); and you indulged in play and pastime (and in telling lies against Allah and His Messenger Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) as they indulged in play and pastime. Such are they whose deeds are in vain in this world and in the Hereafter. Such are they who are the losers.

Tafsir al-Jalalayn on verse 9:69
You, O hypocrites, are, like those before you, who were far mightier than you, and more abundant in wealth and children. They enjoyed their share, their lot in this world. So you enjoy, O hypocrites, your share, just as those before you enjoyed their share, and you indulge [in vain talk], in falsehood and defamation of the Prophet (s), just as they indulged [in vain talk]. Those, their works have become invalid in this world and in the Hereafter; and those, they indeed are the losers.

Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas on verse 9:69
(Even as those) even as the punishment of those (before you) of hypocrites who (were mightier than you in strength) physically, (and more affluent than you in wealth and children. They enjoyed their lot awhile) they expend their share of the Hereafter in the life of this world, (so ye enjoy your lot awhile) you expended your share of the Hereafter in the life of this world (even as those before you) of hypocrites (did enjoy) expend (their lot awhile) their share of the Hereafter in the life of this world. (And ye prate) speak falsehood (even as they prated) and inwardly gave the lie to Muhammad (pbuh) just as those before them indulged in falsehood and gave the lie to the prophets of Allah. (Such are they whose works have perished) their good works have been thwarted (in the world and the Hereafter. Such are they who are the losers) in that they will face punishment.

I hope the Tafsir made it painfully clear to you, that the hypocrites, who are people posing to be believers but are in reality disbelievers, had power in the past, and they did so during the time of the Holy Prophet (saw). Allah allows these people power for some time, then He takes it away. And let's be clear here, a Munafiq is not a Mu'min. Because you are differentiating that Mu'minun are given power while munafiqeen and kafireen are never given power by Allah.

Now, coming back to the Gog and Magog example, which you said was out of place, says the same thing about future disbelievers. They will spread all over the world and they will gain dominance over the people of the earth and attempt to conquer Heaven itself by throwing arrows at the sky. Allah tells Isa (as), that the believers cannot fight Gog and Magog, instead they should go to Tur and pray there. Allah would give them deliverance.

The subtle point here is that "power" is always in Allah's Hands, the disbelievers in this world are given power and dominance for some time, then they are punished by Allah and are shown how little their power was.

Another Hadith states:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Paradise and the Fire (Hell) argued, and the Fire (Hell) said, "I have been given the privilege of receiving the arrogant and the tyrants.' Paradise said, 'What is the matter with me? Why do only the weak and the humble among the people enter me?' On that, Allah said to Paradise. 'You are My Mercy which I bestow on whoever I wish of my servants.' Then Allah said to the (Hell) Fire, 'You are my (means of) punishment by which I punish whoever I wish of my slaves. And each of you will have its fill.' As for the Fire (Hell), it will not be filled till Allah puts His Foot over it whereupon it will say, 'Qati! Qati!' At that time it will be filled, and its different parts will come closer to each other; and Allah will not wrong any of His created beings. As regards Paradise, Allah will create a new creation to fill it with." (Book #60, Hadith #373)
(Sahih Bukhari)

So Paradise is filled with the weak and humble, while Hell has arrogant and powerful people. Despite this, another Hadith states how Allah shows people that the kingdom of the Heavens and the earth are always in His Hands despite the power of the disbelievers:

Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "Allah will hold the whole earth, and roll all the heavens up in His Right Hand, and then He will say, 'I am the King; where are the kings of the earth?"' (Book #60, Hadith #336)
(Sahih Bukhari)

The Qur'an also says in another verse:

35:44 Have they not travelled in the land, and seen what was the end of those before them - though they were superior to them in power? Allah is not such that anything in the heavens or in the earth escapes Him. Verily, He is All-Knowing, All-Omnipotent.

Thus, we cannot deny that the disbelievers possessed power in this world. Allah gave them that power. But Allah takes that power away when a Messenger comes because they reject that Messenger of Allah. Allah gives only to those who believe, and He takes away from the disbelievers:

35:10 Whosoever desires honour, (power and glory), then to Allah belong all honour, power and glory [and one can get honour, power and glory only by obeying and worshipping Allah (Alone)]. To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it (i.e. the goodly words are not accepted by Allah unless and until they are followed by good deeds), but those who plot evils, theirs will be severe torment. And the plotting of such will perish.

Therefore, the lesson is that the power of the disbelievers is only for a short while. Allah gives them respite for some time, then He punishes them and takes away those blessings which they were ungrateful for. This is also spoken of in Surah Al-Kahf:

18:6 Thou wouldst only, perchance, fret thyself to death, following after them, in grief, if they believe not in this Message.
18:7 That which is on earth we have made but as a glittering show for the earth, in order that We may test them - as to which of them are best in conduct.
18:8 Verily what is on earth we shall make but as dust and dry soil (without growth or herbage).

So, whenever Allah wills, He can take away the power of the Israelis. He sent His Mercy on the Jews, after they suffered in the holocaust, and if they are ungrateful towards Allah, and they do not act with justice in the world, then Allah will remove their power from them and scatter them in this world and make them weak and without power once again just like it happened twice before (17:4-8).

One last point, there is a well-known Hadith, which I am posting from one website that is mentioned even in Mujahid's Tafsir of the Qur'an:
It is related that the Prophet (saas) said: “Two believers have ruled the world, and two unbelievers. The believers are Sulayman (as) and Dhul’qarnayn. The unbelievers are Nemrud and Nebuchadnezzar. The fifth, the Mahdi descended from my line, will also rule the world.”
Source: http://www.mahdiaccordingtofoursunnischools.com/kutubasitta.php

Rulers have power. Two of them were unbelievers yet they ruled the world. They were given temporary power. Everlasting peace and power is what Allah gives to the believers.

Again I disagree, its your translations, in others he uses the word strength, you've done the same in the Evolution thread by quoting what isn't in other Quranic translations, ie about people growing from the ground, but in other translations it is about similie to plants.

Allah did not give "power" to the evil doers, it is rather that they have been able to by his LEAVE -I SAY AGAIN BY ALLAH'S LEAVE!! If the Gog and Magog had any power, they would have broken out of the mountains by now.

Even Allah said to the idol worshippers that they did not have any power (were the evil doers were supported by Satan and his minions), ie even at the time of the magicians at Pharoah's court. People do trickery and even with the Dajjal by Allah's leave is supported by the demons, by Allah's leave.

After all your posts your happy to read on Islam if it concurs with your way of thinking, and what you wish to do in this world. No Muslim would ever say that Israel has power, when they even do gay parades there. do not back track when you stated that prayers are their only recourse, (when its normal way of life for Muslims), and that they don't have the technology to attack the Israelis-thinking like non-believers.

Allah was critical of the idol worshippers for blindly following what people say, Islam isn't were people blindly follow, its were the truth is accepted, and when someone likes you says something which is at odds with Islam, a Muslim can disagree, they have their own souls to consider, you can quote as many scholars as you like but still people heed the truth and not as Allah put it follow people who do not have sense. I am not rejecting hadiths and leave some open to my heart as there are many hadiths weak, strong ones and people picking and choosing what they like best, and even issues on devils being chained up during Ramadan -when this is not true, so there were people who updated that saying only the worst ones are-which frankly they are all bad, its not about strength-as Allah does not differentiate between the devils when he sends them to Hell, they aren't treated differently to their abilities so that is obvious and lost in translation.

Onto you your way, and onto me mine, I absolutely do not find much to tell me of Islamic response to your posts and that you just quoting Islamic texts to hide your unislamic responses.

 

[Ahmad H]

Again I disagree, its your translations, in others he uses the word strength, you've done the same in the Evolution thread by quoting what isn't in other Quranic translations, ie about people growing from the ground, but in other translations it is about similie to plants.

Allah did not give "power" to the evil doers, it is rather that they have been able to by his LEAVE -I SAY AGAIN BY ALLAH'S LEAVE!! If the Gog and Magog had any power, they would have broken out of the mountains by now.

Did you not read anything I posted above? You are just trying to create arguments because you feel it's necessary. I stated that:

The subtle point here is that "power" is always in Allah's Hands, the disbelievers in this world are given power and dominance for some time, then they are punished by Allah and are shown how little their power was.

Obviously it is by Allah's leave that they have power. They only have the illusion of power. Nevertheless, they do gain power. That is a fact, and there is nothing you can do to deny that.

As for the translations I use, they are Abdullah Yusuf Ali. So why don't you go and see if you can come up with a better translation yourself? Unless you are a scholar in Arabic and can come up with a translation of the Qur'an yourself, then go ahead and publish one. Until then, why don't you accept the translations that are already in place?

After all your posts your happy to read on Islam if it concurs with your way of thinking, and what you wish to do in this world. No Muslim would ever say that Israel has power, when they even do gay parades there. do not back track when you stated that prayers are their only recourse, (when its normal way of life for Muslims), and that they don't have the technology to attack the Israelis-thinking like non-believers.

What a bogus statement. I am happy to read things on Islam that fit my way of thinking? I was stating to you verses from the Qur'an and Ahadith. Let's see you come up with JUST ONE VERSE OF QURAN OR JUST ONE HADITH to support your position. Yes, Dajjal is given power by Allah's leave, so that means Allah gave Dajjal that power for some time. You are saying the EXACT SAME THING I DID. Allah gives these people power, and He takes it away. It is in HIS HANDS. You said before that disbelievers can never have power, at all. Now you change your words to suit yourself because I said it already.

AND SINCE WE SEEM TO AGREE, I THINK THE TIME HAS COME TO MOVE ON.

I am not rejecting hadiths and leave some open to my heart as there are many hadiths weak, strong ones and people picking and choosing what they like best, and even issues on devils being chained up during Ramadan -when this is not true, so there were people who updated that saying only the worst ones are-which frankly they are all bad, its not about strength-as Allah does not differentiate between the devils when he sends them to Hell, they aren't treated differently to their abilities so that is obvious and lost in translation.

Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim were what I quoted from. As for the Hadith on devils being chained during Ramadan not being true, on what basis are you saying this? Pretty much every scholar is settled on this that it is true. Or is it some opinions on this? You need to make yourself more clear, your English is hard to understand at times.

Onto you your way, and onto me mine, I absolutely do not find much to tell me of Islamic response to your posts and that you just quoting Islamic texts to hide your unislamic responses.

Not true at all. Do you think you can peer into my heart and just keep accusing me of being un-Islamic? You think I am hiding something? Why don't you let me in on what you are accusing me of then, h-n. I want you to tell everyone here what you think. Do you think I am Kafir? Is that it???

 

[Vito]

As Salaam Alaikum my question is many people that are Pro Israel talk about and cry about Palestinian Violence against Israelis but I think Palestinian Violence against Israelis is a Response to Israeli Violence against Palestinians no one forced the Jews/Zionists/Settlers to settle in Palestine and steal from and murder and run out the Palestinians in 1948 and build Settlements found a Jewish State and so on and so on the point is it is important to look at the context of the Palestinian Violence in my view it is the law of cause and effect and many Israeli Soldiers go into the Civilian Areas and so on the Jewish Settlers are really Soldiers in a sense they can be drafted or go into the Army anytime they carry guns and pay taxes vote and support their Army given the fact they are living or land they did steal they are not really Civilians if Israel wanted peace they would leave Palestine anyone agree with my point of view thank you I found this link to make my point.
　
Israeli Massacres:
Details and Numbers
Although the Image that Israel distributes about herself is that of an oppressed nation, it is with heavy hearts that we present these crimes that stand for themselves for the brutality of the Israeli Army and the heartlessness of its soldiers who seem to have a thirst for blood. It is for the hope that the world may see a clearer picture that we present these painful facts. It is interesting to notice that today's media does not dwell on these crimes as they do on the Holocaust. Some of the brutal acts may be lightly covered in the news for a week or two and then swept into the sea of oblivion. Those who attempt to revive the true history of Israel are charged with being anti-Semitic. So with the hope to keep those memories in mind we present this shameful history of Israel that seems to have found that the role of Goliath is more interesting than that of David.
　
The following list of massacres is by no means exclusive, but they reflect the nature of the Zionist occupation of Palestine and Lebanon and show that massacres and expulsions were not aberrations that happen in any war, but organized atrocities with only one aim, that is to have a Zionist state which is 'goyim rein'.
http://www.seek-info.com/massacres.htm

Brother, the first word that comes to mind anytime I hear "israel" is deception.

Its funny because they used to play these infomercials at night which demonized Islam and Palestinians and pleaded for you to empty your life's savings to their cause. A cause which is to send a bunch of old people from Poland back to their "homeland" (israel). A homeland in which they never stepped foot in their entire life only to displace the people already living there. Can you imagine how many people have fallen for that crap? They see a couple of black and white holocaust pics and they're 100% convinced that its their god given right to go bankrupt for that cause. Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do for people like that and I truly feel sorry for those people..

 

[Hulk]

Disagreements in discussions are expected but please keep it civil.