Christmas lunch

[anonymous]

Long story cut short, my husband is attending a Christmas lunch next week even though he is covering It up saying it is a year end lunch. I'm pretty sure people will be drinking. Ive worked in enough places to know it is a Christmas lunch but he is too scared not to go because he will lose his job again. I feel like he is even lying on wallahi.

I've shown him text saying it's haraam and a grave sin but he says he has read elsewhere its allowed. I asked him to show me and in that fatwa it says associated religious events are not allowed. However he now is claiming its a year end lunch.

What shall I do. I feel sad that he will be at this event and around women drinking even though he says he won't be. He is so manipulative and cunning.

 

[fyi]

He is so manipulative and cunning.

lol?

 

[islamirama]

If he wants to go and won't listen then not much you can do except make dua. Tell him he can make up things to you to justify himself but that won't hold in front of Allah on judgement day. There will be women and drinking but this is work people so no one will be getting drunk and getting out of control, they all have jobs to keep after all.

 

[cooterhein]

I'd be willing to bet half of my next paycheck that the official name of the event is something inclusive and seasonal and it's not an actual Christmas party with an intrusive Christian theme, and it's got absolutely nothing to do with the birth of Christian Jesus.

I'm also assuming that the workplace is not gender segregated to begin with, and this workplace event is also not gender segregated. Because....this workplace, and presumably all the people who work there, have tacitly agreed to forego gender segregation in all areas except the bathroom. Which makes me wonder- how is it that you're all right with gender mixing at the workplace during work hours, but not when it's a workplace social event? This is the deal- you have gender segregation in the workplace, or you don't. In this workplace, you don't. So the assumption is basically this- and it's a very reasonable assumption, by the way. Gender integration has been effectively agreed to by all employees at this place of work. It has. Alcohol is a bit of a different issue- that hasn't been a similar subject of tacit agreement- but the gender integration thing has, for all intents and purposes.

Just one more thing- I seriously doubt that your husband is cunning and manipulative. I'm pretty sure that's just not true.

 

[Cherub786]

What I find bewildering is that an employer would terminate the employment of an employee for not attending a “Christmas party”. Pardon me, but that’s just absurd and very hard to believe. People are fired for their substandard work performance or other legitimate reasons, not for failing to attend a social function.

Anyways I personally would never attend any of these “parties” that non-Muslims have. Keep our relationship with them strictly business and professional and avoid socialization, especially attending a “Christmas party”.

 

[cooterhein]

Anyways I personally would never attend any of these “parties” that non-Muslims have. Keep our relationship with them strictly business and professional and avoid socialization, especially attending a “Christmas party”.

I can understand avoiding certain things, or being selective about how you spend your free time outside of work, but this seems a bit excessive. For one thing, it's not good for your quality of life. For another, there's a certain set of things that tend to happen when people surround themselves with people who agree with them on just about everything of importance and insulate themselves from any influence besides that....and the results are not too good. And finally, this really seems to imply that you look at all non-Muslims, in general, as if they are harmful to your deen whenever you interact with them beyond surface level. Right now you're not even talking about extremely close relationships, you're talking about avoiding casual socialization. For you, right now, this is literally about being anti-social. That idea, insofar as it is that exact thing, deserves a bit of scrutiny.

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings cooterhein,

I'd be willing to bet half of my next paycheck that the official name of the event is something inclusive and seasonal and it's not an actual Christmas party with an intrusive Christian theme, and it's got absolutely nothing to do with the birth of Christian Jesus.

This is besides the point. Regardless of what the party is officially called, it is obviously related to Christmas otherwise it wouldn't be held annually around the time of 25th December. And as Muslims, we are already aware that even if it was overtly a Christmas party, it has more to do with paganism than the supposed birth of Jesus :as:.

Which makes me wonder- how is it that you're all right with gender mixing at the workplace during work hours, but not when it's a workplace social event?

It is obviously an assumption that there is gender mixing at the workplace here. However, even if that is the case, that is a completely different scenario to attending a mixed party. The person in question might not have a choice with regards to completely avoiding mixing in the workplace, but he does have a choice in attending a social event where that mixing is likely to be worse. Also, the purpose of going to work is primarily for earning a living, not socialising. The same cannot be said for attending a 'Christmas lunch'.

For one thing, it's not good for your quality of life. For another, there's a certain set of things that tend to happen when people surround themselves with people who agree with them on just about everything of importance and insulate themselves from any influence besides that....and the results are not too good. And finally, this really seems to imply that you look at all non-Muslims, in general, as if they are harmful to your deen whenever you interact with them beyond surface level. Right now you're not even talking about extremely close relationships, you're talking about avoiding casual socialization. For you, right now, this is literally about being anti-social. That idea, insofar as it is that exact thing, deserves a bit of scrutiny.

A person has the choice to socialise with whomsoever he wills, and quality of life is about having this choice. If someone doesn't want to be around a particular set of people whose influence he doesn't like, there is nothing wrong with that. And if, as a general rule, someone doesn't wish to casually socialise with non-Muslims, so what? After all, it is very difficult nowadays to find non-Muslims who will socialise in a manner that will respect simple concepts in Islam, like a Muslim's need to go for prayer, or refrain from mixing with the opposite gender, not drinking alcohol, etc. If socialising with particular people will typically involve activities that will go against a Muslim's faith, it is common sense to avoid putting oneself in that difficulty.

 

[muslim brother]

Long story cut short, my husband is attending a Christmas lunch next week even though he is covering It up saying it is a year end lunch. I'm pretty sure people will be drinking. Ive worked in enough places to know it is a Christmas lunch but he is too scared not to go because he will lose his job again. I feel like he is even lying on wallahi.

I've shown him text saying it's haraam and a grave sin but he says he has read elsewhere its allowed. I asked him to show me and in that fatwa it says associated religious events are not allowed. However he now is claiming its a year end lunch.

What shall I do. I feel sad that he will be at this event and around women drinking even though he says he won't be. He is so manipulative and cunning.

there is nothing wrong in someone having dinner with his work colleagues.
the "manipulative and cunning" part is possibly an other underlying issue you have in your marriage which needs resolving
may allah taala grant you a good marriage

 

[Cherub786]

I can understand avoiding certain things, or being selective about how you spend your free time outside of work, but this seems a bit excessive. For one thing, it's not good for your quality of life. For another, there's a certain set of things that tend to happen when people surround themselves with people who agree with them on just about everything of importance and insulate themselves from any influence besides that....and the results are not too good. And finally, this really seems to imply that you look at all non-Muslims, in general, as if they are harmful to your deen whenever you interact with them beyond surface level. Right now you're not even talking about extremely close relationships, you're talking about avoiding casual socialization. For you, right now, this is literally about being anti-social. That idea, insofar as it is that exact thing, deserves a bit of scrutiny.

I do believe in having a healthy exchange of ideas. In fact, I disagree with this discussion board’s policy that severely restricts expression of alternative views. I believe that everyone should feel free to ask questions and offer alternative views, so long as it is in a polite and respectful way.
But casual socialization is a different matter. Muslims are not just a religion but a very distinct social group. Catholics, Mormons, Hindus, Jews, and atheists are different religious or irreligious groups, but for the most part there are no barriers for social interaction among them. Therefore, despite belonging to different denominations and religions, socially they are part of the same mainstream society. But Muslims are an exception because we form a distinct social group as well. Our social behavior is so divergent from that of mainstream society that it is impossible to conceive of an observant Muslim socially interacting with non-Muslims outside of a strictly business context.
I don’t think this results in the kind of insulation that prevents intellectual and educational growth. The purpose of socialization is obviously social. I might read a non-Muslim’s book for educational purpose, or engage with him in an intellectual discussion about any subject, but socializing with him is a totally different thing.
You express amazement at how even surface level interaction between Muslim and non-Muslim can harm the former’s Deen. If by surface level interaction you still mean an interaction that is “social” then yes it is harmful. Islam is very exceptional in the world of religions in that it effects the social behavior of its adherents much more profoundly than any other major world religion. For example, Muslims are not only forbidden from drinking, but even strictly forbidden from sitting at a table where hard drink is being served, hence why it is inconceivable that an observant Muslim would enter a bar or certain restaurants (the major settings for socialization in non-Muslim society).
You argue that this is being “anti-social”. I think you will find that being anti-social is not necessarily a bad thing when it comes to wanting to avoid mainstream society. Muslims are basically people striving to create a counterculture or subculture and go against the grain. If you know the philosophy of Abrahamic religion, that is considered as something virtuous and ideal.

 

[M.I.A.]

lol?

yuuuuup..


thought process:

yay i get to be designated driver.

...

...but what if they do sick in my car o_0


turns up and everybody is a teetotaler..

drunk people have there own lifts.


..


job done?

 

[aaj]

there is nothing wrong in someone having dinner with his work colleagues.

On any occasion it would not be an issue. However, as Muhammad discussed previously, it is a specific occasion and going to such pagan parties where free mixing and drinking is involved is not allowed.

 

[anonymous]

Wow you guys assume so much it's unbelievable. Nobody said mixing with non Muslims makes us less Muslim when I have lots of non Muslim friends. I just didn't feel comfortable with him attending a lunch where it was based on Christmas and women dressing inappropriately and drinking. That's all! End of discussion! He didn't go anyway.