Concerned about place of loved one after death

Paprika said:
One heck of a love you have, prepared to go to hell just for her. Lets hope that love will remain when you actually see hell, I'd rather not remember her than go to hell.
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If the person is looking for the truth so that if it was revealed to him he would accept, then this person will not go to hell forever.

They may enter hell for a while to be cleansed form sins - just as any sinful Muslims would also, but they would not live in hell for ever and would be admitted into heaven after they are purified. Only the purified can enter heaven as it is a place of purity.

As for those who are adamant to the truth, and are not looking for the truth, and even when the truth has become manifest to them they disbelieve in it, then these people can never enter paradise at all.

So we cannot take the position of Allah (swt) and judge anyone and say this person is going to hell or not.

And perhaps,its in your knowledge or not,the responsibility of spreading the truth i.e Islam fall upon the shoulders of this Ummah after Prophet-hood has ended.And an advice not for anyone but myself first,I always feel guilty that we are not doing what we are supposed to do.
 
WarriorforMarie, you repeatedly refer to the woman you love as an atheist but of which religious viewpoint are you yourself now, and how about prior to her death?

Do you believe in a Creator? If so, do you believe that He is the Most Just, the Perfectly Just?
 
Insaanah said:
WarriorforMarie, you repeatedly refer to the woman you love as an atheist but of which religious viewpoint are you yourself now, and how about prior to her death?

Do you believe in a Creator? If so, do you believe that He is the Most Just, the Perfectly Just?
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My religious viewpoint is one of uncertainty. I do not know if there is a Creator. I was like that before her death. After
she died I looked for information on all religions. I hoped that I could find out where she had gone. I wanted to believe,
I desperately wanted someone to convince me. Unfortunately I was not able to find any convincing argument for
any particular religion.

As for whether a Creator would be just, I have no information to form an opinion. If there is a creator the only thing I
feel I could give commentary on is quality of the universe he created.
 
Hulk said:
It might be that she is pardoned for not being introduced to Islam and granted Paradise and you on the other hand intentionally rejected Islam because of your lack of understanding.
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Bingo!! You nailed it bro.
 
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WarriorforMarie said:
My religious viewpoint is one of uncertainty. I do not know if there is a Creator. I was like that before her death. After
she died I looked for information on all religions. I hoped that I could find out where she had gone. I wanted to believe,
I desperately wanted someone to convince me. Unfortunately I was not able to find any convincing argument for
any particular religion.

As for whether a Creator would be just, I have no information to form an opinion. If there is a creator the only thing I
feel I could give commentary on is quality of the universe he created.
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Hello WarriorforMarie

Ever gave a thought on the following questions:

Where did I come from, and where am I going?

What is the purpose of life?

What is the relationship between man, life and the
universe?

What is the link between life and what was before life, and what is
after life?

If you did,would you like to share them please:)
 
WarriorforMarie said:
For some time I searched for an answer about what awaits us after death. So far no representative of any religion has been able to provide an answer.
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This is hardly surprising as death is a one way street. There's no coming back to tell the story of what awaits us on the other side. So if we are heavy on the thoughts of this subject, we may go crazy as there are no facts that can be proven without doubt. We just have to accept death as being the end of life as we know it.

As you correctly pointed out, there must be a 'truth' only it is hard believe which one is it?

My thoughts for you will be to cherish the moments you had with her, be thankful that your paths crossed, that your life was enriched that much more as a result of knowing her and that you had a chance to share a part of your life with this amazing person. You still owe yourself a life too. Don't let it end with Marie(?)

We, as muslims have to put our faith in Allah. He IS the All Knowing and everything else. He created us, He gave us all our senses, He gave us free will. He gave us life to test us and our mind to ponder. ABout the "not remembering or care for her if you were in a place where muslims go when they die'' is someone's narration of what it may be as you searched for answers everywhere. Would you based your life long savings on an opinion such as this? It may be right, but it may be a whole host of other scenarios.

Peace
 
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WarriorforMarie said:
Signor,

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I appreciate your position. I certainly have nothing against Muslims and their relationship with the deity they worship is their own. I also understand you mentioned the idea of looking into different teachings of Islam that might suggest something different.

However, the situation I face is that I do not want to risk ending up in a place different from where she went to. Maybe there are interpretations of Islam that would permit her to enter paradise. But what if they are mistaken and she is not but I became a Muslim anyway and ended up in paradise while she was someplace else? I can not take that chance.

Have a good day. :)
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You post as if you get to choose what reality is. If Allah is real and the muslims are correct, do you seriously think you get to decide it isn't so and somehow change reality? I agree with you that it would be awful if true, but if it is true, then its true.

If you are looking to theologans, holy books, etc, you don't get to decide what they'll say, and if you are going to reject them based on them not being what you'd like to be true, then why look to them in the first place? If you just want to believe what you find the most comforting, Why not just convince yourself of whatever your ideal wish is? Does it matter if others believe what you do?

And speaking as an atheist who has religious loved ones, who have worried about the same sort of things, I find it very loving that you feel that way. I remember refraining from telling my grandmother I was atheist (she was fire and brimstone type of christian) because I knew she would worry about me going to hell, etc. I think this just shows that you are a good and loving person. I do worry about those who seem to relish in non-believers going to hell. There are too many of that sort and not enough of you. There is a strange paradox that atheists live in regards to loved ones. On the one hand people trying to convert us to their religion is annoying and a bit disrespectful. On the other, it shows they truly care. I've never been able to sort that one out in regard to how I should feel.
 
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Pygoscelis said:
And speaking as an atheist who has religious loved ones, who have worried about the same sort of things, I find it very loving that you feel that way. I remember refraining from telling my grandmother I was atheist (she was fire and brimstone type of christian) because I knew she would worry about me going to hell, etc. I think this just shows that you are a good and loving person.
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That was very sweet of you. :)

I do worry about those who seem to relish in non-believers going to hell. There are too many of that sort and not enough of you. There is a strange paradox that atheists live in regards to loved ones. On the one hand people trying to convert us to their religion is annoying and a bit disrespectful. On the other, it shows they truly care. I've never been able to sort that one out in regard to how I should feel.
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Yep, that's a tricky one!
Just shows that we all love you really. :)
 
Signor said:
Hello WarriorforMarie

Ever gave a thought on the following questions:

Where did I come from, and where am I going?

What is the purpose of life?

What is the relationship between man, life and the
universe?

What is the link between life and what was before life, and what is
after life?

If you did,would you like to share them please
Click to expand...

Well, I have thought about these things. But I have no clear opinion.
 
greenhill said:
This is hardly surprising as death is a one way street. There's no coming back to tell the story of what awaits us on the other side. So if we are heavy on the thoughts of this subject, we may go crazy as there are no facts that can be proven without doubt. We just have to accept death as being the end of life as we know it.

As you correctly pointed out, there must be a 'truth' only it is hard believe which one is it?

My thoughts for you will be to cherish the moments you had with her, be thankful that your paths crossed, that your life was enriched that much more as a result of knowing her and that you had a chance to share a part of your life with this amazing person. You still owe yourself a life too. Don't let it end with Marie(?)

We, as muslims have to put our faith in Allah. He IS the All Knowing and everything else. He created us, He gave us all our senses, He gave us free will. He gave us life to test us and our mind to ponder. ABout the "not remembering or care for her if you were in a place where muslims go when they die'' is someone's narration of what it may be as you searched for answers everywhere. Would you based your life long savings on an opinion such as this? It may be right, but it may be a whole host of other scenarios.

Peace
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Thank you for your wise and kind words Greenhill. You are right, I know. I know Misty would want me to be happy.

But I can't. I feel like I failed her. My life is now dedicated to helping others and fighting for causes she cared about. Through Kiva I help women in the developing world build businesses. I fight ignorance and intolerance. When some people in Murfeesboro wanted to prevent the local Muslim community from building a center I wrote letters to the local elected officials trying to explain there was no threat from the Muslim community.

I have sworn never to be with another woman, because my heart belongs to her only.
 
Thanks for the reminder. I had a bunch of completed Kiva loans with money waiting for reloan. Kiva and Doctors without Borders are my two charities of choice.
 
WarriorforMarie said:
I do not know if there is a Creator.
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Thank you for your reply.

If you were walking through a forest, and in the middle of the forest came across a small clearing, and in the middle, was a perfectly and beautifully made wooden table with chairs, would you come to the conclusion that:

a) the table and chairs had evolved into table and chairs from the trees over millenia
b) The right size and shape pieces of wood sawed themselves off the tree, screws and nails and hammers magically appeared to fix the pieces together
or c) that somebody had come along, chopped down a few trees to clear the area, then sawn off pieces of wood from tree trunks and used tools such as hammer and nails to put the table and chairs together. In other words, the table and chairs had a maker.

You might say, yes C, but the table and chairs could have had several makers. One held the wood while other cut. However, that is because there is imperfection and weaknesses in humans , they need help from each other. They could also have squabbles and disagreements. None of this is befitting the Creator of the universe.

It may be that you don't think c is the answer, but to me it is, clear as day. So what of the universe around us. The galaxies and solar system. The night and day, the sun and moon and stars, plants and animals, fruits, our own creation, our languages and colours, just to name a few. Signs of a Creator all around us. The Qur'an repeatedly asks us to reflect, ponder, consider, give thought to this.

If we cannot believe that a table and chairs evolved or magically came into existence by themselves, and they are simple planks of wood, then how can we do so for the complex and fascinating universe around us? The systems within our own bodies?

Once we believe there is a Creator, then which is the best belief to have about that Creator? How do we view Him, what do we believe about Him, how do we worship Him? And how would He convey the aforementioned to us?

The answer is, that throughout history, he has sent a succession of prophets and messengers to people throughout the ages, to convey His message to them, and with guidance to show people how He wants them to live and worship Him. They were the purest and noblest of humanity and were not divine in any way. God sent all the prophets with the same message and not different messages. The message was: to submit wholeheartedly to God and worship Him and Him alone, without any associates in, or parts to, His Exclusive Divinity, and to obey the prophet. They taught that people should be under no misperception that they can commit themselves to God as their Lord, and then combine this with accepting others as their Lord, or associating others in His Divinity, in whatever way. They taught that we should strive hard to translate our belief in the One True God into practice, by obeying God and the messengers He sent, who were also role models and examples for us, showing us practically how to put the guidance they were sent with into practice in our daily lives, explaining the scriptures, warning against wrong-doing, and giving additional legislation from God.

Islam is not a new faith but is the same Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them). Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism) nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, and the meaning loosely translates as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, all races and all peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning.

However some of their teachings got forgotten/distorted, sometimes people began associating others in God's Exclusive Divinity, so other messengers were sent, culminating in the final messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him). The scripture God revealed to him, the Qur'an, is fully preserved, with no word coming from any human. It is unchanged and will remain so, as God has promised to preserve it. This is why there is no need now for any new messenger as the scripture is, and will remain, in tact. So Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the messenger for now til the end of time.

I'll keep this brief and not go on too much, but will end with a few snippets of the concept of God in Islam:

  • There is only One God. He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, Cherisher, and Lord.
  • He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.
  • He is eternal and does not die.
  • He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need.
  • There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, Incomparable, the Creator of the Universe.
  • He did not and does not, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.
  • He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, no intermediaries, and no denying of God's existence either.
  • There are no sharers or associates or persons or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense.

I hope that has given a brief glimpse of why I believe and know Islam to be the truth, and the only truth. The essence of Islam is what always was, and has always been, the true and natural religion; the way of all the Prophets, the original and only message.

There cannot be lots of contradictory truths, nor does God change His mind and give different people different messages. Nor when delivering the message, did the messengers leave people in the dark as to the right way to worship God, so that each person should do what they personally think is the best way. The straight path is only one.

I know you are busy helping everyone, but you also need to take some time out and think about yourself. Imagine a student, has exams coming up, but spends lots of time helping others and doing so neglects himself. He might feel good that he's helped others, but if he fails his own exam as a result, that isn't very wise. Help others, of course, but also while you're at it, re-evaluate and reassess the basis for your own beliefs and doctrines. And it is that to which all people are invited by the Qur'an. Your beliefs regarding God, and which faith you follow, are the biggest, most serious and most important decisions you will ever make, as this life will end one day for all of us, and our position regarding God and His messengers is what makes or breaks our hereafter, which is forever.

Please let me know if you'd like clarification/further information.

You also asked elsewhere about a person who died not having being exposed to Islam. You may find this link helpful in that regard: http://islamqa.info/en/1244

Peace.
 
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To add more with regards to why I believe and know with complete certainty Islam to be the truth, an increase in knowledge and education, and scientific discoveries, provide further evidence that it is the truth. It is only right that if words are from the One who created the Universe, and nobody knows more about it then He, that those words should be in harmony with the workings of nature.

The enormously vast universe has been the object of curiosity since time immemorial. Greek philosophers, including Aristotle, believed that the Universe had always existed and would continue to do so eternally. This was also the mainstream view in scientific circles at the beginning of the 20th century, aptly known as the 'steady state theory'.

An eternal state of the universe meant that there was no inherent need for a Creator - for what does not have a beginning does not necessitate a need for a cause. However, advancements in science would shatter this view and fundamentally prove that the Universe had a beginning.

In 1922, physicist Alexander Friedmann, produced computations showing that the structure of the universe was not static and that even a tiny impulse might be sufficient to cause the whole structure to expand or contract according to Einstein's 'Theory of General Relativity'. George Lemaitre was the first to recognise the implications of what Friedmanm concluded. Based on these computations, Lemaitre declared that the universe must have had a beginning and that it was expanding as a result of something that triggered it. He also stated that the rate of radiation could be used as a measure of the aftermath of that 'something'.

The theoretical musings of these two scientists did not attract much attention and probably would have gone ignored except for new observational evidence that rocked the scientific world in 1929. That year, American astronomer Edwin Hubble, made one of the most important discoveries in the history of astronomy. He discovered that galaxies were moving away from us at speeds directly relative to their distance from us and from each other. The universe, long considered static, was expanding.
Stephen Hawking writes, 'The expansion of the universe was one of the most important intellectual discoveries of the 20th century, or of any century.'

Since the universe is constantly expanding, were we to rewind a film [of its history], then necessarily we would find the entire universe was in a joint state, referred to by some as the 'Primordial Atom'. Many scientists and philosophers resisted the idea of a beginning to the universe because of the many questions that it raised - primarily what or who caused it. However, with Penzias and Wilson's discovery of microwave radiation emanating from all directions, possessing the same physical characteristics - namely petrified light which came from a huge explosion during the first seconds after the birth of the universe - left little doubt about the fact that the universe had a beginning.

For fourteen hundred years, since the revelation of the Qur'an, Muslims had been reading and reciting the verses:

'the Heavens and the Earth were united [in a single state] and We tore them apart.' [21:30]

coupled with

'...the Heaven We constructed with might, and indeed, We are [its] expander.' [51:47]

Let's take mountains as another example (out of very many examples).

A book entitled Earth (1986, Frank Press and Raymond Siever) has been a basic reference textbook in many universities around the world. Professor Emeritus Frank Press was the Science Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter, and for 12 years was the President of the National Academy of Sciences, Washington, DC. His book says that mountains have underlying roots. These roots are deeply embedded in the ground, thus, mountains have a shape like a peg.

This is how the Quran has described mountains. God has said in the Quran:

Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? (Quran, 78:6-7)

Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground. So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century.

Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth. They hinder the shaking of the earth. God has said in the Qur'an:

And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you... (Quran, 16:15)

Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s.

Nobody during the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) have known of the true shape of mountains, or imagine that the solid massive mountain which he sees before him actually extends deep into the earth and has a root. A large number of books of geology, when discussing mountains, only describe that part which is above the surface of the earth. This is because these books were not written by specialists in geology. However, modern geology has confirmed the truth of the Qur'anic verses.

These are just two examples. The Qur'an also talks about embryonic development, the origin of the universe, the cerebrum, seas and rivers, deep sees and internal waves, clouds, the water cycle and other facts, all proved true. And perhaps some not yet "discovered". As a result of these, a number of scientists embraced Islam by reading the Qur'an and realising that it was not from any human being, but from the One who created the universe.

The Qur'an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago, mentioned facts only recently discovered or proven by scientists, and contains no scientific errors. This proves without doubt that the Qur'an must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and that the Qur'an was not authored by Muhammad (peace be upon him) or by any other human being. This also proves that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is truly a prophet sent by God.

The first word in the Qur'an, was an imperative ('Read!') addressed to the Prophet, linguistically immediately making the authorship of the text outside of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). This is maintained throughout the Qur'an. It talks to the Prophet or talks about him, and does not allow him to speak for himself. The Qur'an describes itself (over 200 times) as a book that God 'sent down', conveying the concept that the Qur'an is from above and that the Prophet was merely a recipient. God is the one to speak in the Qur'an. The Prophet is addressed, 'O Prophet', 'O Messenger', 'Do', 'Do not do', 'They ask you...', 'Say', (the imperative form of the word 'say' is used in the Qur'an well over 300 times).

It supersedes the previous scriptures, while being a continuation, confirmation and culmination of the original message contained within them, in its last and final form. It has no versions or editions. Millions of people from all over the world have it memorised and they all recite word for word the same thing. There are no versions or editions, as there are with other scriptures. There is only one Qur'an. 100% God's word. Unchanged by any human. It's message is as applicable to the scientist in his laboratory today as it was to the Bedouin in the desert. It is as applicable to a man in a paddy field, as it is to a man in Silicone Valley. To everyone. People need to open their eyes, hearts and minds. To ponder and reflect, as the Qur'an encourages us to. The truth is clear. As it should be.

Peace.
 

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