Converts - Values

[chris4336]

Hello everyone. One of the biggests problems I'm having as a convert is the large change in my "values system." I brought it up a little on the other board but there are many values that I'm learning in Islam (such a treatment of woman, homosexuals, apostates amoung other things) that are completely different from the value system I was brought up with (in the West).

Understanding the explanations behind these things has helped, but there are still some things that I am accepting on faith alone that God knows best - things that in my western mentality don't seem "right" to me. And I still hear the little nagging voice in my head of my parents/former teachers telling me the non-Islamic way.

Did you guys have a little nagging voice? How did you get rid of it?
How did you go about telling your family about your change in values system. For example I used to be 100% prochoice (I mean like going to marches and stuff) - no not so much. It seems very strange to say "well I used to believe very strongly in that but not anymore?"

 

[YusufNoor]

Hello everyone. One of the biggests problems I'm having as a convert is the large change in my "values system." I brought it up a little on the other board but there are many values that I'm learning in Islam (such a treatment of woman, homosexuals, apostates amoung other things) that are completely different from the value system I was brought up with (in the West).

Understanding the explanations behind these things has helped, but there are still some things that I am accepting on faith alone that God knows best - things that in my western mentality don't seem "right" to me. And I still hear the little nagging voice in my head of my parents/former teachers telling me the non-Islamic way.

Did you guys have a little nagging voice? How did you get rid of it?
How did you go about telling your family about your change in values system. For example I used to be 100% prochoice (I mean like going to marches and stuff) - no not so much. It seems very strange to say "well I used to believe very strongly in that but not anymore?"

ummm, Chris, i read some of your post yesterday. last i remember is that you were "on the fence" regarding Islam...

but now, you're a Muslimah??? Alhumdulillah! (unless i missed something)

anyway, all those thoughts running around your head MAY be Allah's (SWT) way of testing you. you might struggle with those issues for quite some time. just remember that when we are tested, the purpose is to strengthen our faith, although easier said than done sometimes.

look for the proper times to discuss individual issues with your family. try it all at once and you may overload and freak out. BUT, explaining Islamic beliefs to your family would considered "Dawah". therefor, seek Allah's (SWT) guidance through prayer & du'a, along with help from any sisters or possibly and Imam.

the "treatment" of women, well good luck with that because you'll probably have "issues" even with Muslim men on THAT one!

Allah (SWT) will reward you for all the correct choices that you make! as well as forgive you any missteps! so it's kind of a win/win situation!

just don't get discouraged!

and may Allah (SWT) guide you and strengthen you!

 

[Umar001]

Hello everyone. One of the biggests problems I'm having as a convert is the large change in my "values system." I brought it up a little on the other board but there are many values that I'm learning in Islam (such a treatment of woman, homosexuals, apostates amoung other things) that are completely different from the value system I was brought up with (in the West).

Understanding the explanations behind these things has helped, but there are still some things that I am accepting on faith alone that God knows best - things that in my western mentality don't seem "right" to me. And I still hear the little nagging voice in my head of my parents/former teachers telling me the non-Islamic way.

Did you guys have a little nagging voice? How did you get rid of it?
How did you go about telling your family about your change in values system. For example I used to be 100% prochoice (I mean like going to marches and stuff) - no not so much. It seems very strange to say "well I used to believe very strongly in that but not anymore?"

Yea am still confused, am guessing you haven't converted yet but your thinking yourself as one :happy: :happy: I know the feeling ;D

Anyhow, I mean, any person who has been brought up in a certain way to believe 'this' is right and 'that' is wrong, and then to be told 'no no no, 'this' is wrong and 'that' is right' is a big thing and something you have to adjust to, for example, I was a christian, and you know how we Christians are, 'turn the other cheek' and so forth, it took me a while to get used to the fact that battles were allowed and having swordss and so on, alot of things to me take me a while to totally feel natural with, and yes sometimes theres a voice nagging 'but..but...I don't get it' and stuff like that, but personally the way I see it is, if I have found out that Islaam is the right path, and the Qu'ran is indeed the word of G-d and Muhammad, peace be upon him, is needed a messenger, then what ever is in the Qu'ran and what ever Muhammad peace be upon him say, are from G-d and it is done with the best of understanding and the best of Judgement, I always tell people, we as humans only can see upto the horizon where G-d may see above and beyond, so sometimes what doesn't make sense to me, I reconcile with the fact that I know for sure Islaam is right, so I need not worry.

I hope that made sense lol

 

[Rabi'ya]

welcome to Islam Im a revert too.....

There are many things which Islam teaches us which are perhaps against our "traditional" western values. I think its important not just to accept these, but to look deeper as to why they are as they are. - this way ull have a greater knowledge and understanding and will come ot LOVE ISlam even more

You are saying about the treatment of women, and i understand, at first i thought women have more right in western society, but u come to learn this is not true. Time will pass and you will change you mode of thinking.

With regard to homosexuals....the same things applies.

I would encourage you to, research the topic which bothers u, and tkae it slowly. these things and changes in heart dont happen over night.

Sis, im always here if u want someone to talk to inshAllah.

I pray Allah guides you and keeps you oin the striaght path.

If you have any particular issues, why not raise them? or search other threads to see wht islam has to say on that topic



Rabi'ya:rose:

 

[Umar001]

Yea but sis you cant research every doubt, I mean if you do that people would take years and decades to become muslim and many would die in the waiting period

 

[chris4336]

Yea am still confused, am guessing you haven't converted yet but your thinking yourself as one :happy: :happy: I know the feeling ;D

Haha that sums up exactly where I am right now.

Thanks a lot - its good to know its not just me. Lots of stuff going on in head right now!!! I know that I just have to put my complete faith in God and this is where I struggle a bit :hmm: Yes I know that we cannot fully understand God and why he tells us certain things, its just sometimes hard to break out of the western "I know whats best for me and I don't need anyone telling me anything" mentality.

 

[Malaikah]

Yea but sis you cant research every doubt, I mean if you do that people would take years and decades to become muslim and many would die in the waiting period

lol true. but its worth researching the major doubts!

 

[chris4336]

Yeah I think for me it has to come from believing fully that Quran is the word of God and Mohamed is the prophet of God...if this belief is strong all the other things will come very easily. I guess kind of like the story of Abraham (I think) when he was asked to kill his son - He did so out of faith in God not because he understood the wisdom behind it. This is where I would like to be.

 

[Rabi'ya]

Yea but sis you cant research every doubt, I mean if you do that people would take years and decades to become muslim and many would die in the waiting period

i disagree....tell me which Muslim knows everything?

im saying, accept Islam, based on the love and understanding u have. knwing its the path of truth. the other small things which may be doubts in ur mind are not reason enuf not to accept Islam. but purely a way for us to have a thirst for knowledge.

I often have doubts, but i would never denounce Islam. I have full trust in Allah and know that these doubts will be cleared up, I just need to find the answers.

As is it sed in one of Dr Zakirs lectures....
non-Muslim " I could accept Islam - but i could never give up drinking"
Muslim "so accept Islam, put ur full faith in Allah and inshallah He will guide you"
non-Muslim " How can I be a Muslim and drink"
Muslim " All Muslims commit sins, but that doesnt mean we should shy away from the truth. try to complete as many other good deeds."

I dont remember how the whole conversation went, but the moral is, Its better to accept Islam and slowly try to cut down ur sins. Than to stop sinning and thn accept Islam. what if u spent ur whole life trying to stop sinning and never accepted Islam....It might end up too late



Rabi'ya:rose:

 

[Rabi'ya]

To be a Muslim...what are the requirements - BASIC REQUIREMENTS

to testify that there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad(saw) is the messenger of Allah

If you believe this then u need to say it with conviction in ur heart and accept Islam. Then day by day u need to research into the basics....slowly implementing as much Islam as you can in ur life.



Rabi'ya:rose:

 

[Umar001]

i disagree....tell me which Muslim knows everything?

im saying, accept Islam, based on the love and understanding u have. knwing its the path of truth. the other small things which may be doubts in ur mind are not reason enuf not to accept Islam. but purely a way for us to have a thirst for knowledge.

I often have doubts, but i would never denounce Islam. I have full trust in Allah and know that these doubts will be cleared up, I just need to find the answers.

As is it sed in one of Dr Zakirs lectures....
non-Muslim " I could accept Islam - but i could never give up drinking"
Muslim "so accept Islam, put ur full faith in Allah and inshallah He will guide you"
non-Muslim " How can I be a Muslim and drink"
Muslim " All Muslims commit sins, but that doesnt mean we should shy away from the truth. try to complete as many other good deeds."

I dont remember how the whole conversation went, but the moral is, Its better to accept Islam and slowly try to cut down ur sins. Than to stop sinning and thn accept Islam. what if u spent ur whole life trying to stop sinning and never accepted Islam....It might end up too late



Rabi'ya:rose:

I dont know if you just misread my statement, but you said you disagree then your statement after completly agreed with mine lol :happy:

What I was saying is exactly what your saying now.

 

[Rabi'ya]

lol sorry i misread sorry



Rabi'ya:rose:

 

[Umar001]

Haha that sums up exactly where I am right now.

Thanks a lot - its good to know its not just me. Lots of stuff going on in head right now!!! I know that I just have to put my complete faith in God and this is where I struggle a bit :hmm: Yes I know that we cannot fully understand God and why he tells us certain things, its just sometimes hard to break out of the western "I know whats best for me and I don't need anyone telling me anything" mentality.

Also can I ask what is your view of G-d as in, erm, were you a christian that had a 'close' reletionship with G-d or a person who had G-d always in the background for emerngecys instaed of 911, lol, or what? Cos that is something you need to know in order to kinda move along, sorry if its abit personal.

 

[Umar001]

lol sorry i misread sorry



Rabi'ya:rose:

Hey no worries

 

[chris4336]

Yes I was Christian who always has believed in God but in a sort of "All good people go to heaven - Hell is only for someone like Hitler" kind of way if that makes sense? Yeah God was in the background for emergencies as you say. But thinking about death has always scared me, and I would say at this point its probably more fear, than love, that is pushing me to Islam.

 

[Protected_Diamond]

Read & understand Islam in more detail & insha' Allah you won't have a problem. Always remind yourself of death and the purpose of life. Don't waste time on thinking too deeply about everything - don't let your mind wander of. Leave everything in Allah's hand and focus on the compulsory duties which have been commanded.
Congrats on finding the truth and remember there's always wisdom behind everything in Islam, whether we see it or not...it's always there! Try not to be sceptical and try and make muslim friends who will guide and help you and you'll be fine insha Allah with Allah's help!

 

[glo]

Yes I was Christian who always has believed in God but in a sort of "All good people go to heaven - Hell is only for someone like Hitler" kind of way if that makes sense? Yeah God was in the background for emergencies as you say.

That's how I grew up thinking about God too. :?

To be honest, I thought religion was largely invented to keep people under control ...
But that didn't stop me from suddenly 'finding my faith' and start praying to God occasionally, like you say, when it was an emergency ... :muddlehea

Peace, sister

 

[Umar001]

Yes I was Christian who always has believed in God but in a sort of "All good people go to heaven - Hell is only for someone like Hitler" kind of way if that makes sense? Yeah God was in the background for emergencies as you say. But thinking about death has always scared me, and I would say at this point its probably more fear, than love, that is pushing me to Islam.

Oh ok, well I guess we werent 'twins' in this area of finding G-d lol. Though I do understand what you mean by "All good people go heaven..."

I don't know, all I can share with you is how I've felt, I grew up in a wierd way and I always found myself talking to G-d, I do understand that fear is a big part in religion as such, but for me, to be honest, I used to want to talk about the end days, and so forth, I was biblically fascinated by the book of Revelation and I saw the G-d reprenseted there, in a light which I didn't see in Church, I saw a G-d that would execute his Justice and Punishment, I think alot of people have a problem with that, alot of people do like to just think, G-d loves everyone and so forth, in a similar sense of yours, but for me, I from my Christian days understood that yes G-d does love people, but at the same time, if you totally and wholly reject him then that love can became void in the sense that hell will then turn into a reality for the person.

That for me is the reality, it is impossible for us not to love G-d, if we believe in G-d then it naturally follows that we should love him, since we love people who have done less than he has ever done for us, it is only our perception of blessings that does not allow us to love Him.

Lol I still hope am making sense ;D

 

[جوري]

Chris..... maybe we should analyze your fears one by one to diminish them....or at least help you better deal with them?

I am not really sure how you think Islam treats women? I don't know any Muslim woman in my circle of friends that doesn't have complete autonomy or a great job..... I don't see anything in Islam prohibiting women from having their business, getting a divorce, being educated..... Egypt has more doctors than the U.S does.... Iran has more women in their house of representative than U.S does..... don't yield to that pre-painted image that this society has painted to you of us...
look at this recent convert has done to help others...
http://avari.blogs.com/weblog/2006/07/muslim_women_ar.html
http://www.maraboonline.com/collection.php


2- What is it about treatment of Homosexuals that bothers you? If someone is committing a sin of this caliber and make no mistake it is a sin by all organized religion standards ... they simply shouldn't be flashing it in every one's face... I don't like it when regular folk flash their PDA publicly, let alone something that is considered immoral... I just read an article yesterday of parents protesting in a middle school about a book, now a part of their children curriculum that teaches about two male penguins raising a chick..... see even here in the good old U.S of A people have high standards and ARE CONSERVATIVE.... I believe I have written once about how the immediate wrong of a situation doesn't seem apparent ... as they come across not hurting anyone.... but it is the same as some woman who donates her eggs and thereby harms herself and society, even though she might think she is helping a childless couple conceive, she is in fact harming her body with hormones ... and harming future generations from let's say the possibility of marrying their own siblings ... or with unknown Genetic diseases--tons of these anonymous donors' children at some point might end up marrying their own siblings?-- I know this is a digression. But think about it. think of the ramifications that might be subtle and not as immediately harmful to self or society ... but in fact still exist.... like being electrocuted and having the jolt stay dormant in the purkinje fibers only to cause seizures and death shortly afterwards ... the person looks normal from the outside ... internal damage is phenomenal.... and mortally wounding.....

3- There are tons of non-practicing Muslims unfortunately ... they don't rub it in the face of the rest of us, it is ultimately something between them and G-D...... to be an apostasy is to declare war on Islam make no mistake. They do so because an apostate by nature is someone who n needs to justify to self "rational reasons" for his new found state and wishes to attack the religion and spread falsity....I don't wish to direct your attention to one very famous apostate currently flooding the net with his crap.... he doesn't accept any decent invitation to debate the issues ... even to the most moderate of us he is a criminal...
Most of us who are devout feel one with our predecessors, we share in their values we respect them. To attack them assimilates to attacking a family member and I don't know anyone that would stand for their family being hurt and humiliated and not do anything about ... please don't confuse that with freedom of speech ... that is indeed allowed in Islam...... I am talking about an act of war..... that is all together different!---
in 1606 Caravaggio used a dead ***** to depict the virgin Mary in a painting.... I want to ask you how if you were a devout Christian at some point felt about that?--
because on all levels I find that very offensive... And it doesn't matter if it were a depiction of Mary (PBUH) or prophet Mohammed (PBUH)... there are boundries not to be crossed... even if we can.... you can always go kill your irritating next door neighbor and have be rid yourself and the world of conceived evil....... it doesn't mean you should go do it :hmm: we hope! lol

http://www.kfki.hu/~/arthp/html/c/caravagg/07/45death.html

 

[chris4336]

Eesa - Thanks for the PM yeah I really understand what you mean - for awhile I had just left the whole Fatawa thing and tried to really look if I believe Islam is from God and develop my relationship with God. This has been much more productive for me but sometimes I still get stuck.


Thanks for the explanations, and yes as I do explore I do see more the logic behind the reasons. But what still gets me (and maybe will get me for a long time) is this kind of thought process:

Islam says: Listen to your husband.
My own voice screaming: This is wrong you are your own person you do what you want. You have been taught that since you were little!
Then the other voice pops in: No you need to look at the reason behind it, have faith in god, etc etc.

See what I mean how its a constant battle in my head? And this is only in my own head - forget trying to explain it to others.

Please don't think I'm talking bad about Islam, I do understand there is a reason behind all these things and I really appreciate all the suggestions and it is really conforting to know there are people out there to help me, at least on the computer.