I suppose I could give you my definition and you can tell me if yours is any different.
Free will: The concept that one has an ability to choose his or her own actions which are unconstrained by external or internal influences. In essence, the idea that there is a "causal gap" and a possibility that for every cause, there is more than one event with chance of occurring. This bestows a "choice" upon you and me, and an ability to intervene in the "laws" of nature to bring about a effect that may or may not be desirable. The effect itself is not the concern; it is the existence of a causal gap.
Determinism: the concept that for any event there is an antecedent state of nature, which through the laws of nature, could only result in the occurrence of that event. In essence, it is the idea that a series of causes and effects rule the continuum of time and each state of nature. Chance does not play a role, as the system itself has only one possible state at any given point in time.
Free will cannot take into account any ideals, philosophies, religions, or other external factors which limit your choices. If you choose to create a stone idol, and within a moment realize that your initial intentions conflict with your religion and out of that realization you chose to not create a stone idol, then you do not have free will. There is an external factor which influences your choices.
Free will cannot take into account pain or pleasure, or their varying degrees found in hunger or any of the senses. If you choose to swim across the Amazon River, and due pain or hunger decide to turn back or quit, then you do not have free will. There is an internal factor which influences your choices.
Free will creates chance occurrences, as there is no causal state other than what can be assumed to be a "mind". Determinism does not allow chance occurrences.
What is attractive about free will?
You have free will in there it is true 'The power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies' The rest are your own additives.
for instance when you use terms like 'external or internal influences' I have a little problem with that...
Say, I am going to choose an innocuous example away from theology...
You want to take a bath, you step in the tub.. you have the free will to make that water temperature a cold 58 degrees, you also have the ability to make it a scalding 140 degrees. The decision in either circumstance will be yours.. However, given that you are a thinking rational human being, you'll not choose either extremes but will make it a comfortable lukewarm a few degrees from the norm of most rational human beings.. can we get you to agree on that much?
determinism to me a theory holding that all events are inevitable consequences of antecedent sufficient causes; often understood by most as denying the possibility of free will... but I see it as a subsidiary to free will..
You have free will within a 'matrix' where the laws are already defined... You can't for instance decide you'll walk on air today, though you have the ability to decide for yourself and no one is to stop you.. Laws of physics are sure to give you a loud sploot when you walk off that promontory.
Who will have effectively accomplished more to help the people of this world, Bill Gates or Mother Teresa? It's a simple question. Consider the social and economic factors of the work each has done, and the lasting effects of each.
I can't compare things that are have no bearing or any connection to one another.. which do you think is the better fruit for humanity a kiwi or a passion fruit?
I'm not questioning the approach, I’m questioning the effectiveness.
I can't compare effectiveness of things that have no relevance to one another... again which do you think is better for humanity a Doctor or an engineer? The man who invented a shunt to drain hydrocephalus wasn't a doctor, he was in fact an engineer whose child was born with that condition. True the doctors at the time were powerless against what to do in such a condition... the engineer helped his son.. his son went on to become a great composer ( true stories) I am not making it up for the sake of examples.. again I ask whose job is the most important or the most effective? Each offers humanity something all together different, none are subject to comparison they are complementary to humanity and humanity is based on each person doing something different we can't all be doctors, we can'tall be plumbers we can't all be sanitation engineers!
What does theology have to do with free will? Yes, people will laugh. Free will is quite often used as a defense for the existence of god. But, the concept of free will is not contingent on the acceptance of any one particular theology.
Has everything and none at all, depending on your perspective... BTW just to get this out of the way, I don't think God needs a defense!
I don't have to agree with or believe in theology to understand it, nor do most people understand it despite the fact that they believe in it. Surely you can give me the credit for having an ability to understand, and if it can be shown that I do not, then it is only to my benefit.
Indeed!
I understand that you may see a conversation with me as beneficial to you. Perhaps it is a chance for you to convert a wayward soul, and surely "god" can see that your efforts for the sake of propagating Islam are worthy of some reward. If that's your motive, that’s perfectly fine. Would you find comfort in the fact that this is a small step forward for you for the sake of Allah?
No.. let's get one thing out of the way, If I wanted to convert anyone, I'd start with my two dearest friends.. one is a protestant and the other sikh.. surely in my life they are worth more than a complete anon? And another thing out of the way.. Islam is a matter of the heart.. there was a man in the time of the prophet (p) who was a complete hafith who became an apostate and was granted reprieve, I forget his name, will look for it later..so do understand that much, it makes no difference whatsoever in my life how many are Muslim over how many aren't, who is coming in or out...this isn't merely an informed decision on your part, but a burden that has to be satisfactory to you both heart and mind..something that you are willing to live with.. It is about your comfort level..I play absolutely no part in that... I have no vested interest in this forum, in fact I joined to learn just like the rest. And every day I am so grateful because no matter how little educated or highly educated, poorly engaging or highly cultivated each member has and continues to teach me something new.. and that is indeed humbling...
I don’t think my definition of metaphysical would differ from yours.
Ok
Courage, honor, a "sense of purpose" and virtue, where do these come from? They are ideas you can comprehend with your brain. A “broken heart” can only come from trust, faith, or belief in an ideal that fails us, and the realization that the very principles by which one lives his/her life are a source of deception.
For me I have resolved and at peace with where most come from, but I can't influence that for you under any light.. since life is a long learning process and a fard (compulsory) on each Muslim..
I've yet to delve into the topic of death from a "broken heart". If you wouldn't mind providing me with a reference, I'd appreciate it.
this here is third part source..
http://www.webmd.com/content/articl...edguid={5FE84E90-BC77-4056-A91C-9531713CA348}
here is another
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=1002561&pageindex=1
but I will be honest.. I have read better than those two :smile: I just have a very large cache to go through if you prefer better than webMD and pubmed for now?
It's simple. It is because I know how fragile life is that I seek the answers to these questions. Would god love me more if I had remained passive and ignorant, or if I had at least made the attempt to understand life and my role? Your god, self proclaimed to be omniscient and benevolent, will surely see that this is my jihad. If I am not deserving of a reward for my intentions, at the very least I am not the greatest of sinners. I can't imagine a punishment for making the attempt.
I can't attempt to on any level speak for God.. I do however know from ahadith and the Quran that God prefers learned servants over ignorant ones...
"And say: My Lord increase me in knowledge."
(Qur'an, Ta-Ha 20:114)
"Allah will raise up, to (suitable) ranks and (degrees), those of you who believe and who have been granted knowledge. And Allah is well-acquainted with all you do."
(Qur'an, Al-Mujadilah 58:11)
"There is no one worthy of worship but He: That is the witness of Allah, His angels and those endowed with knowledge, Standing firm in Justice (or maintaining His Creation in Justice). There is no god but He, the Exalted in power, the Wise."
(Qur'an, Al-'Imran 3:18)
"It is only those who have knowledge among His servants that fear Allah."
(Qur'an, Fatir 35:28)
So you have no fears as far as seeking knowledge-- what you do with what you have learned is an entirely different story...
I am not your intercessor to God..whether or not you think he exists is inconsequential..I have written this before in regard what people choose to believe or ignore
people can go on perfectly happy not knowing or even believing that there is such a thing as TPR governing their life-- yet the interplay between mean Arterial pressure, cardiac output and total peripheral resistance keeps ones system in homeostasis and alive... if one of them should fail acutely or chronically it would lead to eventual demise... Many people can go on ignoring them--- some might read up a little when sick and stick with meds as prescribed or needed... some might go against medical advise and just call it bluff ( no such formula exists) my life isn't governed by formulas, and then end up dead with their belief that no such thing governs my body's homeostasis...
what I mean is ignoring it doesn't mean it isn't running your life 24/7..calling it my formula or the neighbor's doesn't make it any less yours...but I am certainly not responsible for how you use that knowledge, if you believe it or not, it is YOUR CROSS TO BEAR!
and you should be able to handle the consequence of that.. I am not going to believe that kuffr is less bad because a really nice person thought it over and declared there is no God... the rules are a done deal, there is no room for a temporary expedient this century or the next.. and you indeed have the free will to deal with them as you please..
In spite of all our advances we really are primitive creatures...
listen to the last few verses of this sura...I tell you, it really doesn't matter how advanced when comes that moment of death, all we can truly do is watch and know that someday we are next...death has an incredible way of making us all so primitive again...I find most of our human emotions, fears, aspirations, desires, no different than they were 5000 yrs ago... fact if we just get creative with word or colorful with what we deem more appropriate for this century, like a fashion statement almost...
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlgC5CKh26U&feature=related[/media]
peace!
