Did Jesus fulfill (For unto us a child is born,Isaiah 9:6-7 )?

If you do not like one explanation, I am sure you can understand this one:

Isaiah is known for the method by which he presents many of his messages through the use of prophetic names (Isaiah 7:3, 14; 8:3). In the verse under study, the prophet expounds his message by formulating a prophetic name for Hezekiah. The words of this name form a sentence expressive of G-d's greatness, which will become manifest in the benefits to be bestowed upon the future king in his lifetime. Thus, the name, though borne by the king, serves, in reality, as a testimonial to G-d.


Hezekiah is called "a wonderful counselor" because this name is a sign, which foretells G-d's design for him.
The L-rd of hosts has sworn, saying: "As I have thought, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand, that I will break Asshur in My land, and upon My mountains trample him under foot; then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulder." This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth; and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations. For the L-rd of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it? And His hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? (Isaiah 14:24-27)
Be not afraid of the words that you have heard, with which the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed Me. Behold, I will put a spirit in him, and he shall hear a rumor, and shall return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land. (Isaiah 37:6-7)

Hezekiah is called "the mighty G-d" because this name is a sign that foretells G-d's defense of Jerusalem through the miraculous sudden mass death of Sennacherib's army.
Therefore thus says the L-rd concerning the king of Assyria: He shall not come to this city, nor shoot an arrow there, neither shall he come before it with shield, nor cast a mound against it. By the way that he came, by the same shall he return, and he shall not come to this city, says the L-rd. For I will defend this city to save it, for My own sake, and for My servant David's sake. (Isaiah 37:33-35)
Hezekiah is called "the everlasting Father" because this name is a sign, which foretells that G-d will add years to his life. "Go, and say to Hezekiah: Thus says the L-rd, the G-d of David your father: I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; behold, I will add to your days fifteen years" (Isaiah 38:5).

Hezekiah is called "the ruler of peace" because this name is a sign, which foretells that G-d would be merciful to him. Punishment for lack of faith in the Almighty will be deferred and peace granted during the last years of his rule. "Then said Hezekiah to Isaiah: 'Good is the word of the L-rd which you have spoken.' He said moreover: 'If but there shall be peace and security in my days'" (Isaiah 39:8).

The fulfillment of the above-stated declarations is foretold in Isaiah 9:6, when, after the Assyrian defeat, Hezekiah's glory increased and peace reigned for the rest of his life (2 Chronicles 32:23). Archaeologists have found that there was a sudden expansion of Judean settlements in the years following the fall of the northern kingdom. This indicates that many refugees fled south, thus giving added significance to the statement "that the government may be increased."

Hezekiah's kingdom is declared to be forever, for through his efforts to cleanse the Temple ritual of idolatry, even though apostasy followed under his son Menasseh, the Davidic dynasty was once more confirmed as the only true kingly rule that G-d would accept over his people "from henceforth and forever." The greatness of Hezekiah lies in his setting the stage for Israel's future. Hezekiah was a true reformer. He cleansed religious worship of foreign influence, purged the palace and the Temple of images and pagan altars, and reestablished pure monotheistic religion.

In the long run Hezekiah's achievements would outlive him, leaving an everlasting, indelible impact on the history of his people. Thus, G-d, through Isaiah, bestows upon Hezekiah this name which honors the king by proclaiming the great things G-d will do for him, and, through him, for the people of Israel.

 
The Old Testament prophets did not seem to fully understand this distinction between the two comings of Jesus (His birth and His Second Coming) as seen in Isaiah 7:14; 9:6-7; and Zachariah 14:4. .

well,finally found something could be relevant to my question and our discussion.......


first:

pity on those inspired idiots ,who though were inspired and were guided by the holy spirit from A to Z when they wrote,but never bothered himself to show them this distinction between the two comings of the messiah !!!
finally we found the church interpreters who fancy themselves to be not only inspired but more intellegent than all The Old Testament prophets !!

Let's see what they have to offer and which OT passage talks about the second coming:

according to Don Zachariah 14:4 is a second comig prophecy of the Messiah,let,s read this part:


Zechariah 14

1-2 Note well: God's Judgment Day is on the way: "Plunder will be piled high and handed out.
I'm bringing all the godless nations
to war against Jerusalem—
Houses plundered,
women raped,
Half the city taken into exile,
the other half left behind."
3-5But then God will march out against the godless nations and fight— a great war! That's the Day he'll take his stand on the Mount of Olives, facing Jerusalem from the east. The Mount of Olives will be split right down the middle, from east to west, leaving a wide valley. Half the mountain will shift north, the other half south. Then you will run for your lives down the valley, your escape route that will take you all the way to Azal. You'll run for your lives, just as you ran on the day of the great earthquake in the days of Uzziah, king of Judah. Then my God will arrive and all the holy angels with him.


Simple Question :

would you cite a chapter or a verse from the Old Testament whether from Zechariah or any other prophets that what we have just read will be fulfilled during a second coming of the promised messiah?
If not,why do you pap ,claiming that It is a second coming prophecy?!!


peace
 
would you cite a chapter or a verse from the Old Testament whether from Zechariah or any other prophets that what we have just read will be fulfilled during a second coming of the promised messiah?
If not,why do you pap ,claiming that It is a second coming prophecy?!!

Maybe someone else can, but I cannot prove messianic prophecy by using Old Testament scriptures. We learned from Jesus of his promise to come again in the New Testament, but you already knew that.

pity on those inspired idiots ,who though were inspired and were guided by the holy spirit from A to Z

I can tell it won't matter what I write at this point because you have resorted to calling the New Testament authors inspired idiots. It's rather interesting that forum rules are set so no posts can criticize Islam, the Prophet, discuss his relatives etc. etc., but you are evidently being allowed to post insults about Christianity. No matter what the subject being discussed, it's a fool's game to enter into a discussion that will be allowed to continue with insults. Good day.
 
Maybe someone else can, but I cannot prove messianic prophecy by using Old Testament scriptures. We learned from Jesus of his promise to come again in the New Testament, but you already knew that.



I can tell it won't matter what I write at this point because you have resorted to calling the New Testament authors inspired idiots. It's rather interesting that forum rules are set so no posts can criticize Islam, the Prophet, discuss his relatives etc. etc., but you are evidently being allowed to post insults about Christianity. No matter what the subject being discussed, it's a fool's game to enter into a discussion that will be allowed to continue with insults. Good day.





Dear Don,It is obvious that you came a full circle...
first of all who told you that this forum prohibt criticising Islam?!!!
Islam could be criticised as long as no offensive language is used to both Allah and his last messeneger.........

second:

If you accuse the inspired Old Testament prophets of parroting what has been revealed to them without understanding it,who then offended them???

the church interpreters or me?!!

anyway, and due to the fact that a handful of OT prophets gave false,unfulfilled prophecies ,they can by no mean accepted to be prophets at least according to the Quran criteria to accept the claim of prophethood..
 
Oh so I could call Muhammad an idiot and that's okay? Here's part of the forum rules. I added the bold. Perhaps my English is bad.

16. No attacks against Islam in any form will be tolerated on this discussion board. This includes, but is not limited to attacks on the Qur'an, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), his family and companions, or any other prophets in Islam, or Islamic scholars, past or present. While some may complain that there is "freedom of speech" please remember this is a privately owned discussion board which was created and is maintained to serve the purpose of promoting Islam. What is allowed in speech is determined by the Admin and not the member.
 
Oh so I could call Muhammad an idiot and that's okay? Here's part of the forum rules. I added the bold. Perhaps my English is bad.
Have you read a post by a Muslim that was so disrespectful of Jesus (pbuh) or one of his disciples. If so, that person was not acting on Islamic principles.
 
Have you read a post by a Muslim that was so disrespectful of Jesus (pbuh) or one of his disciples. If so, that person was not acting on Islamic principles.
pity on those inspired idiots ,who though were inspired and were guided by the holy spirit from A to Z when they wrote,but never bothered himself to show them this distinction between the two comings of the messiah

I would say so, yes.
 
I would say so, yes.


Don, your position continues to deteriorate apace.
All what you try to do is Of course, all smoke and mirrors with no substance,, let us not lose sight of the original Issue.....

1-more than once I called Paul (who is more important to christians than OT prophets )as a deciever while debating you in another thread and you never got upset ,nor claimed I violated the rules.....you know why?
because you had something to post that time,now you have nothing to post more ,so you try to obfuscate the topic..
and If you post the same again ,trying to play the game of being a victim,that will never help you refuting my original arguments

you repeat yourself everytime you debate me, at first zealous and try to refute me,you fail then you play the role of a victim.......etc
 
I would say so, yes.


Don, your position continues to deteriorate apace.
All what you try to do is Of course, all smoke and mirrors with no substance,, let us not lose sight of the original Issue.....

1-more than once I called Paul (who is more important to christians than OT prophets )as a deciever while debating you in another thread and you never got upset ,nor claimed I violated the rules.....you know why?
because you had something to post that time,now you have nothing to post more ,so you try to obfuscate the topic..
and If you post the same again ,trying to play the game of being a victim,that will never help you refuting my original arguments

you repeat yourself everytime you debate me, at first zealous and try to refute me,you fail then you play the role of a victim.......etc
 
Don, your position continues to deteriorate apace.
All what you try to do is Of course, all smoke and mirrors with no substance,, let us not lose sight of the original Issue.....

1-more than once I called Paul (who is more important to christians than OT prophets )as a deciever while debating you in another thread and you never got upset ,nor claimed I violated the rules.....you know why?
because you had something to post that time,now you have nothing to post more ,so you try to obfuscate the topic..
and If you post the same again ,trying to play the game of being a victim,that will never help you refuting my original arguments

you repeat yourself everytime you debate me, at first zealous and try to refute me,you fail then you play the role of a victim.......etc

Deceiver and idiot are two very different things, thus my response. Your conclusion as to the reason for my response is incorrect. You seem to get more and more wound up as a thread progresses. When you started calling Bible authors idiots I had had enough of your nastiness.

In this latest case, what you do is set the stage with the question so the outcome is predetermined. When I choose to answer, and my answer doesn't fit within your framework, you accuse me of trying to confuse the topic. Your original argument was a loaded question. My only mistake was even attempting an answer because you refuse to see anything outside of the framework you created.
 
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Hold on AB.... It seems you got confused ,and didn't get the crux of the matter.....

the argument bagan as:

1-A christian assertion that Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 9:6 in a spritual way .
2-I proved without any reasonable doubt that the fulfillment has to be literall.
3-then ,he soon changed his argument from a fulfilled spritual fulfillment to future physical fulfillment in a so called second coming.
4-I asked him for a support from the Old Testament to his claim(second coming) not a New Testament.....you ask why?

1-We have Old Testament textual requirements concerning the messiah, what he will do, and what will be done during his reign,and the Old testament tells us the he will fulfill that all from the first shot,there is one messiah and that's all, and he is coming once and that's it.

2-Jesus could have a religious legitimacy only If he fulfilled the Old Testament textual requirements concerning the messiah,after he fulfill them ,then we can give him attention and listen,accept any agenda he has in his mind including (second coming )etc.......
If not then he neither he nor his agenda (including second coming)deserve any attention.



Tell me what is your point as a muslim to prove that Jesus is not the messiah?
Don't you think that the Quran talks about him as the messiah?!!!
 
Tell me what is your point as a muslim to prove that Jesus is not the messiah?
Don't you think that the Quran talks about him as the messiah?!!!

the Quran talks about Jesus as A messiah not The old testament promised Messiah....




well,thank you very much for your post and for helping this thread resume the serious talk after it has been interrupted by useless personal talking.........



first

the Quran clearly rejects both the idea of the King promised messiah and the God incarnated messiah,and affrims that God sends always prophets ,neither to be incarnated nor to send only a physical king....

Question:wasn't David (peace be upon him) a king?
yes and a prophet as well,unlike the OT idea of the messiah to be only a king,not a prophet.

so the Quranic concept is that Jesus was one of the messiahs(prophets)have been sent to the Jews and the last one of them.



second:

my point as a muslim to prove that Jesus is not the OT messiah, is to expose christianity as a false religion, you ask why?
1-the NT writers is said to be inspired.
2-they claim that Jesus is the promised messiah because he fulfilled the OT messianic prophecies.
3-the OT prophecies concerning the messiah have never been fulfilled by anyone including Jesus.
4-hence,the New Testament writer preached false ,uninspired concepts on the readers,in order to impose their own agenda,in their seek for religious legitimacy .
5- That damage the claim of the gospel as being inspired by God,as the writers themselves proved themselves to be uninspired ,hence that proves without doubt that christianity is a false religion
as any religion stands or fall on its scripture...
 

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