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Samkurd

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That in the old testament it says that pork was a forbidden food to eat by christians? along with shell fish and camel. It seems the well watered down religion of christianity has now made its people make their own rules...

Its very sad but as a white american convert once said 'Islam is everything i wanted christianity to be'
 
i thought the old testament was torah? :hiding:

ONLY PEOPLE THAT DONT LAUGH AT ANYTHING MAY READ THE ABOVE SENTENCE !

:salamext:
 
^ ye but was thinking if it is does that mean that christians accept the torah??
 
its da same 1 but its torah and da bible christianity in 1.. im so confused.. plzzz ppl correct me if im rong :$ but i woz told that christians follow da new testament.. and da old 1 is da torah wich da jews follow :S
 
IbnAbdulHakim said:
whats with all the bibles :heated: :heated: :heated:
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Christians say there is only one Bible. The translations are different but the meanings are the same. They say that the idea that some people claim that the meanings have been changed is hogwash. Interestingly, one could counter with, "what's with all the hadith?" Why the different interpretations that some don't accept while others do?

As far as the pork question goes, I found this on a christian site;
Old Testament ceremonial laws regarding "clean" and "unclean" foods are not binding on Christians, having been fulfilled in the coming of Jesus Christ. As St. Paul teaches in Colossians 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ."
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As far as the Old Testament is concerned, both jews and christians follow this. With the birth of Prophet Isa (Alaih Assalaam) both went their own way. For christians new testament came as they considered Isa (Alaih Assalaam) as the final prophet. Jews have their own story as they are still waiting for their Messiah. But Old Testament is something both religions follow (or should follow according to their learnings).
 
MusLiM 4 LiFe said:
its da same 1 but its torah and da bible christianity in 1.. im so confused.. plzzz ppl correct me if im rong :$ but i woz told that christians follow da new testament.. and da old 1 is da torah wich da jews follow :S
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A Bible contains both old and new testaments. I have been told that the old testament is provided for background and understanding as to why things are as they are in the new testament. To tie it all together, so to speak.
 
Peace,

Gary hadith is unprotected, we only follow it by its authenticity but even 32 scholars of the highest eminence including 50 common denominations have stated that the king james version of the bible has grave defects, therefore its been changed. However more hadith is still Alhamdulillaah preserved in its original arabic form.

Anyway Gary we go by the Quran and any hadith which goes against the Quran is clearly fabricated :D
 
Samkurd said:
That in the old testament it says that pork was a forbidden food to eat by christians? along with shell fish and camel. It seems the well watered down religion of christianity has now made its people make their own rules...

Its very sad but as a white american convert once said 'Islam is everything i wanted christianity to be'
Click to expand...

:sl:

the Old Testament is really 3 books. the Torah (law); the Prophets (history) and the Writings (Pslams, Proverbs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiates, Job, Song of songs, Daniel, Esther, Chronicles and Ezra/Nehemiah)

the Christians changed that line up around, some add some Apocrapha. "their" book is the New Testament.

nowhere in the N.T. does it say that the dietary Kosher laws are changed. hence, if one really wants to consider himself "Christian", he should abstain from foods prohibited in the O.T.

As St. Paul teaches in Colossians 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ."
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notice that doesn't say it's OK to eat the stuff, it just says that you're not to worry about what others say about it. the 1st Christians kept those dietary laws as well as "festival(s) or a new moon or a Sabbath".

it IS with Paul that things arrive at a fork in the road. Paul was a Jew, probably a Pharisee. "according to the NT", he was picked to bring "Christianity" to the Gentiles (non-Jews).

one of the major issues that Paul faced was that of circumcision. on his own, he decided that people could "convert" to the erm, "Jesus movement" without having to get circumcised FIRST. mainly as a result of this, along with a dream, 90% of "Chrisitans" assume that ALL of the OT laws and regulations are simply moot, no longer necessary. DESPITE words of Jesus to the contrary.

i was wondering why you thought that quote was sad?

:w:
 
MuSe said:
As far as the Old Testament is concerned, both jews and christians follow this. With the birth of Prophet Isa (Alaih Assalaam) both went their own way. For christians new testament came as they considered Isa (Alaih Assalaam) as the final prophet. Jews have their own story as they are still waiting for their Messiah. But Old Testament is something both religions follow (or should follow according to their learnings).
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They do agree with one thing. Neither Christians or Jews are obligated to obey the laws of either testament.

The Christians were absolved for their sins by Isa.

The Jews, according to our guests, don't have to re-institute the laws of Torah until the Moshiah comes.

I suppose it makes life very convenient for them both.

Ninth Scribe
 
i heard the jews think theres one day that forgives there sins for the coming year , i think thats the sabbath?

Muslims have ways of forgiving past sins (though its not certain so we're always on edge because theres sooo many conditions, ikhlaas etc)

gaurantee of forgiveness might takeaway sincerity and striving in the cause of God !
 
GARY said:
A Bible contains both old and new testaments. I have been told that the old testament is provided for background and understanding as to why things are as they are in the new testament. To tie it all together, so to speak.
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That is quite true. The fact is that the Old Testament contains in general the rules that are given to mankind to live according to God. The New Testament is from Isa (Alaih Assalaam) on, a bit the example of the applying of the rules in life.

I was raised "christian" (if you can speak of that, because christianity in our region isn't really a religion anymore, people just do what they like) and got catholic religion at school. This was what they teached us.
 
Assalamu Aleykum,

original poster, CHristians can eat pork because of the writingi n the book of Mark chapter 7 in which whom so ever the author maybe states that Jesus decleared all foods clean, 'nothing that goes into the body makes you unclean, only what comes out'

GARY said:
Christians say there is only one Bible. The translations are different but the meanings are the same. They say that the idea that some people claim that the meanings have been changed is hogwash. Interestingly, one could counter with, "what's with all the hadith?" Why the different interpretations that some don't accept while others do?
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There are different version, not translations, for example, passages taken in and out, reference to different manuscripts saying different things, some may not change the meaning I do agree but none the less different versions.

Also, in Islaam the Classification of Hadeeth is a long process in which different matters are looked at, and then the hadeeth are asessed, some are not accepted because after much scrutany they have not passed rigarous testing. The Bible would not pass a classification test. The Bible and Hadeeth would go through the same Testing, they are not comparison in authenticity when shows side by side with authentic hadeeth.

Peace.
 
IbnAbdulHakim said:
i heard the jews think theres one day that forgives there sins for the coming year , i think thats the sabbath?

Muslims have ways of forgiving past sins (though its not certain so we're always on edge because theres sooo many conditions, ikhlaas etc)

gaurantee of forgiveness might take away sincerity and striving in the cause of God!
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Yes, but they can't do sin offerings to atone for everyone anymore. They lost that right because of what you said here: "Gaurantee of forgiveness might take away sincerity and striving in the cause of God!" and they've been upset about this ever since, hence the addiction to Jerusalem.

I mean, it's not without it's benefits (absolving of sins), but this was meant for the young as a means to nourish their souls in order to maintain the 'good fight' and for spiritual healing - but the lines were blurred to include those who were at age age to know better. People at this age have more experience and their deeds are expected to be based on that experience. When they aren't, their deeds become an advantageous blasphemy as opposed to an 'intentional sin' - the definition of which has become confused in records like Temurah 15b.

Note: Temurah 15b attempts to argue that 'intentional sins' could not be atoned for without the Hora'as Sha'ah (a special ritual reserved for extreme emergencies). But I find some serious flaws with that interpretation since one would need this special petition for every person who touched the dead (intentionally) which is unavoidable in normal, daily life. A spattering of R.H. ash and Hissop water certainly wouldn't have been enough, though that's the prescription that was recorded for this type of 'intentional' sin. Add to that the fact that it can easily be proven that the generation who lived during the first Temple weren't dead at the time the second Temple was built, and the whole issue that created this silly document, gets knocked clean off the table.

My great grand-mother used to say: you do what you know... until you know better. The problem, as I see it, is that certain people who do know better are taking advantage of those who don't.

At any rate.. blah!

Ninth Scribe
 
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Ninth_Scribe said:
They do agree with one thing. Neither Christians or Jews are obligated to obey the laws of either testament.

The Christians were absolved for their sins by Isa.

The Jews, according to our guests, don't have to re-institute the laws of Torah until the Moshiah comes.

I suppose it makes life very convenient for them both.

Ninth Scribe
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Talk about a sweeping mistaken generalization. Christians do not believe that all sin has been forgiven therefor they can do anything they want. That is a common misconception, but you would think after the numerous times this issue has been explained on here it wouldn't be a misconception any longer.
 
That in the old testament it says that pork was a forbidden food to eat by christians? along with shell fish and camel. It seems the well watered down religion of christianity has now made its people make their own rules...
Click to expand...

i think they christians think jesus forgive all rules and sins, the OT is jewish rules.

i heard the jews think theres one day that forgives there sins for the coming year , i think thats the sabbath?
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ask in the jewish q/a thread. they answered my stuff. :)
 
Keltoi said:
Talk about a sweeping mistaken generalization. Christians do not believe that all sin has been forgiven therefor they can do anything they want. That is a common misconception, but you would think after the numerous times this issue has been explained on here it wouldn't be a misconception any longer.
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Really? No 'forgiveness' for serious sins? Tell that to the Pope! He spared Cardinal Bernard Law from being tossed in jail for allowing pediphile priests to stay in the club, as it were... for decades! What did the pope do? He promoted B. Law, and moved him to Rome, effectively removing him from our legal juristiction! In other words, they not only forgave him for the hundreds of families he helped destroy, but they saved his butt and rewarded him as well.

You obviously have no clue what the deal is with these good ole boyz!

Ninth Scribe
 
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