Divine Justice Real Life examples.

[Imraan]

Assalam walaikum

Those of you who know of my ongoing trials, innallaha ma's swabireen, I have a question...

The people who know me in real life, converse with me give me all sorts of advice. Often I hear of karma... what goes around comes around.... your situation can be fixed overnight, have faith and god willing it can happen, be patient etc etc. They say this because they know and can see my patience going thin. Allah swt knows best. The day I can come on this forum with news of victory of some sort that it has all been 'nipped in the bud / put to bed' will probably be one of the best and relieving moments of my life.

Can anyone recall from their real life experiences (bar the stories of our prophets peace be upon them) of situations involving muslims where the evil person, the oppressor got their 'just desserts' in the end that they so deserved.... in this dunya.

Please remember me and my family in your prayers.

Jazak Allah.

 

[Studentofdeed]

I have an example brother.
There was a nonmuslim girl who was very rude and called me pycho and was making fun of me because I was upset over an issue. The most interesting thing that happened was literally the next few days, the same thing happened to her. I never made dua against or had ill feelings but I felt sorry for her. But this was like the only time I felt like Allah defended my honor. I like to imagine that if Allah can do that much for small thing then for your case, the punishment must be more severe hence why they are not punished yet

 

[Imraan]

I have an example brother.
There was a nonmuslim girl who was very rude and called me pycho and was making fun of me because I was upset over an issue. The most interesting thing that happened was literally the next few days, the same thing happened to her. I never made dua against or had ill feelings but I felt sorry for her. But this was like the only time I felt like Allah defended my honor. I like to imagine that if Allah can do that much for small thing then for your case, the punishment must be more severe hence why they are not punished yet

Subhan Allah!

 

[Supernova]

Assalam walaikum

Those of you who know of my ongoing trials, innallaha ma's swabireen, I have a question...

The people who know me in real life, converse with me give me all sorts of advice. Often I hear of karma... what goes around comes around.... your situation can be fixed overnight, have faith and god willing it can happen, be patient etc etc. They say this because they know and can see my patience going thin. Allah swt knows best. The day I can come on this forum with news of victory of some sort that it has all been 'nipped in the bud / put to bed' will probably be one of the best and relieving moments of my life.

Can anyone recall from their real life experiences (bar the stories of our prophets peace be upon them) of situations involving muslims where the evil person, the oppressor got their 'just desserts' in the end that they so deserved.... in this dunya.

Please remember me and my family in your prayers.

Jazak Allah.

Asalaamualaykum Brother Imraan.

Be rest assured that whatever oppression you undergoing, Allah SWT will deal with it according how HE sees fit. (Not according to how you see fit)

The question you asking people to answer, goes against logic and more importantly the Quran itself. I do hope people read this before answering your question.

1.
From a logical angle, a person would never know if the victory over a zaalim is exclusive to the Zulm made over them. ( Unless its a historical event in the Quran/Hadith)

Example:

Zayd backbites against Erfaan.
Zayd also steals from Rashid.
Rashid and Erfaan are strangers to one another.
Zayd now looses his voice, or lets say gets cancer in his mouth.
Erfaan now claims that Gods divine justice fell upon Zayd because of the backbiting.
> Here comes a question of Islamic Theology. How does Erfaan firstly know what Allah SWT divine justice entails ?
> Secondly, How does Erfaan even know that this "divine justice" is exclusively because of what Zayd done to Erfaan ?

One will never know if the ailment or misfortune of a Zaalim is even because of his Zulm.

For Erfaan to make that claim of Zayds ailment is the "divine justice of God", this is the process that Erfaan undergoes.
1. Recognizes that he is oppressed by Zayd.
2. Zayd gets ill.
3. Erfaan (please follow this carefully) now... superimposes himself into God, and now looks at his own situation from Gods point of view.
4. Then Erfaan concludes that this ailment of Zayd was because of the backbiting. This is all happening while Erfaan magically superimposed himself into God.
5. Erfaan now divorcers himself from this supeimposition, and returns to his own perspective.

6. Erfaan now says Gods "divine punishment" fell upon Zayd because of Zayds Zulm upon me.

You can see the problem here. Erfaan has now decided for God what God should do or God done !!!!! Allah SWT save us from this, one and all. Erfaan has levied God with Erfaans own understanding of justice and then went the extra mile to even claim....God punished Zayd because of that Zulm !!!

Is Erfaan God ? NO
Did he meet God and have a long convo about this? NO

So how on earth does Erfaan even know why Allah SWT has given that ailment to Zayd?

By Erfaan actually saying God done this to Zayd because of his Zulm upon me, is not only lies, but also SHIRKH !!!!

By you asking people to answer your question, you are leading them down the steps (mentioned above) which is not only lying upon God, but forming partnership with God. You and I both know this is shirkh.

The only time we can say Allah SWT has punished a person/group because of Zulm and disobedience is when Allah SWT himself reveals and declares that to us. If Allah SWT doesn't reveal and declare that, then by us deciding that, is us forcing that upon God, and claiming thats why God done punished so and so.

Another thing about this issue that you asking, is that by people entailing in the answer will destroy their understanding of Qadr. I will show why.

If I were to ask you "Brother Imraan, whats your Qadr for the next five years"....you answer is going to be "I don't know". Now follow this point - If I were to follow up that question by "Why don't you know?" What would you answer ???????
Your answer will be either that You not God or God never reveal that to you.

Ok MashAllah, so you don't know your own Qadr but you magically now know why Zayd the Zaalim suffered that ailment !!! How absurd is that?

I could also give you Quranic evidence but that is up to you.

I ask you kindly to contact the Admin and retract this or the Admin can close this - but anyone answering or thinking of answering this should think twice.

InshAllah you see my point.

 

[Imraan]

Walaikum Salaam

This is a good answer and I think this might help others in realising something too so not sure if it should be taken off. It is a big blow to my understanding. Justice is something I have been praying for a long time because I need it, without justice or the thought of not getting it, I might as well imagine sitting in a prison everyday.

Naturally I look for reasoning, its a habit, an old habit, and i think it will die hard. People tell me different things, some say its cos of this and that, some will say outright... 'Qadr'....

Quick Summary, if oppressed, you should never stop praying for freedom/rescue, if the oppressor is no longer at capacity for whatever reason to carry out oppression then that happened by Qadr of Allah independently and not simply 'by your dua alone' or your dua in conjunction with the will of Allah swt.

Sorry brother @Supernova , i've heard the expression 'your prayers are being answered and has been actioned upon, subhan Allah...', OR 'I prayed and prayed and I got it!', sure you've heard that right?

If someone prays for something and they get it, they automatically think I prayed and got it!
Supernova, you are now saying thats wrong. You are saying
If someone prays for something and they get it, they got it because it was Allah swt's decision alone and the prayer had no bearing in that blessing that was requested in the first place.

These kind of discussions help me, all these years we have been praying for loads of stuff with a hope we might get it, we try to maintain faith that it will come. We never stop praying even if we don't get it. As you get older you start to think (hmmm, will i ever get it, i don't know, aah well.... we'll be returning to the ground when its time, will i even see tomorrow?)

you are right though, from what I'm going through, if rescue was delivered to me 'to how i see it fit' it would have been here by now. I'll still carry on praying.

Should we still believe in "What goes around comes around"... or Kifarah as some might say. I mean I pray for that too.

Should some or all of my oppression be lifted today, tomorrow, next week, next month, i'll say it was the will of Allah swt. I will not say 'I prayed and I eventually got it, Allah swt loves me and acted upon my sincere request to him' because that would mean I influenced his decision and thats the point that you are trying to make..... right?

my attitude towards praying and asking for help won't change, but now my expectation will. I guess some of us see our creator, our lord as the greatest, most powerful, the most generous, the merciful. Allah swt has so many attributes and we call upon those attributes for help because we believe in them. I'll still pour my heart out to him and ask for everything that is good and save me from everything that is bad because only Allah swt alone can decide what you get.

I think I should let this concept sink in to me fully before we close this discussion, I came here for guidance and I got your viewpoint on it. Jazak Allah.

 

[Imraan]

What about the prayers of prophets peace be upon them.... they were in situations where they supplicated, they're prayers were answered and they were aided and rescued.

Are we not taught to pray for something specifically with a hope that we will receive if Allah swt wills. They had to make the supplication in the first place and that point is made clear to us in the quran..... isnt it?

 

[Supernova]

What about the prayers of prophets peace be upon them.... they were in situations where they supplicated, they're prayers were answered and they were aided and rescued.

Are we not taught to pray for something specifically with a hope that we will receive if Allah swt wills. They had to make the supplication in the first place and that point is made clear to us in the quran..... isnt it?

Asalaamualaykum

You mixing up topics and concepts. This is a totally different topic on a number of reasons with different variables involved.

I have answered and pointed out something on the topic of the original post.

 

[whitedove]

Yes someone did something very very wrong to me. And I prayed and wanted that person to suffer ( was I wrong for wanting that person to suffer, I don't believe so. I believe we all make mistakes, but when we harm others WITHOUT feeling ANY remorse or guilt) especially when we are referring to bigger wrongdoings, then I do feel that person should be punished. 1 year later that person got into alot of trouble with the law, and paid a very very heavy price, a big chunk of their freedom). Yes in the moment I felt like Allah had answered my prayers and justice had been served, I felt that Allah had known the pain in what was done and that Allah truly never forgets us, that even though all that time had passed it was his plan all along. And yes it did make me believe that certain people get what they deserve ( please note I am referring to larger harm rather than smaller deeds of wrongdoings that we may all do, no one is perfect, we make mistakes and repent), it enhanced my believe that Allah hears us and not in the time that WE want but in HIS time and HIS plan and this can be at a further point in timeline that person pays. BUT ultimately yes you are right in saying, there is no real evidence in that, the person in question received that karma because of the specific action they done towards me, or that Allah made that happen for my sake. We don't know the reason things happen, we don't know if things are related, and yes we will never really know that is true. Like you say, it's not like Allah has revealed that to us so we cannot claim it. Many people cause destruction in this universe, look at political figures who are responsible for wars and lives lost. Do they always pay the price ? Do people who do bad to others receive their karma, we do not know for sure like you say, as we will never know what relates directly to what.

But either way, one thing we do know for certain is that we all do pay for our sins either in this life or in the afterlife when we are accountable for our deeds. Is it haram to pray to Allah and wish and ask for someone who has wronged us to be punished ? Well isn't that between us and Allah privately ? Allah is the one we need to turn to in all matters, so I believe we can share whatever we like with him" but honestly speaking waiting, hoping, wishing, and expecting someone to be punished does nothing but fill your own heart with resentment, hate, bad energy and it simply does no good. That is what I discovered. It does more bad to you than them, which obviously is the opposite effect you are trying to achieve. It is not healthy. So yes by all means you can spend your days praying for justice, but that takes back to the point you may never know if it has, or maybe it might be served in ways you will never be aware of. So the best thing you can do is steer away from and try cleanse yourself of that feeling of " waiting, watching, and linking your prayer being answered dependant soley on, if you visibly see or hear about that person suffering. Let it go. When I say let it go. Not for their sake. For yourself. Focus on you and your path to happiness. Focus on yourself and your relationship with Allah. I promise you you will feel A WHOLE LOAD better once you let go of that hate. P.s this advice applies to my own self too. What I try to do now, is instead of wishing on " someone getting their karma" in my duaa, I instead ask Allah to help ME gain strength in forgetting the event and getting closure, getting over any ill- feelings, and instead to direct me to positivity and new good things ". Through concentrating on myself I am leaving the rest in Gods hands. It is far more empowering to get to the point where you do not wish any bad for that person, because hamdullah you have moved on, moved on in the sense that they no longer affect or have that control over you, i.e you now have more important things you concern your mind with. Whenever I have made this duaa, it always works and Allah helps me in moving on quickly from it and it puts YOUR heart at ease. Much more effective because as supernova mentioned we really do not know in the ways Allah sees fit to serve justice. I am guilty of having had that same mindset believe me but inchallah I hope whoever has done you wrong, that it gets easier for you and that it is replaced with much better things to come.

 

[whitedove]

Assalamualaikum

There's an ayah in the Quran on which if we reflect, we'll get a bit of understanding on this topic:

(32:21) We shall certainly have them taste some chastisement in this world in addition to the greater chastisement (of the Hereafter); perhaps they will retract (from their transgression).

If we look at its explanation: please follow through so the point becomes clear.

“The greater punishment” is the torment of the Hereafter, which will be imposed on the guilty ones in consequence of disbelief and disobedience. “Nearer punishment”, in contrast, implies those calamities which afflict man even in this world, e.g., diseases in the life of individuals, deaths of the near and dear ones, serious accidents, losses, failures, etc. and storms, earthquakes, floods, epidemics, famines, riots, wars and many other disasters, in collective life, which affect hundreds of thousands of the people simultaneously. The reason given for sending these calamities is that the people should take heed even before they are involved in the “greater torment” and give up the attitude and way of life in consequence of which they will have to suffer the greater torment ultimately. In other words, it means this: Allah has not kept man in perfect security in the world so that he may live in full peace, and become involved in the misunderstanding that there is no power above him, which can cause him harm. But Allah has so arranged things that He sends disasters and calamities on individuals as well as on nations and countries from time to time, which give man the feeling that he is helpless and that there is about him an All- Powerful Sovereign Who is ruling His universal kingdom. These calamities remind each individual and groups and nation that there is another Power above them Who is controlling their destinies. Everything has not been placed at man’s disposal. The real Power is in the hand of the Sovereign. When a calamity from Him descends on man, you can neither avert it by any artifice, nor can escape from it by invoking a jinn, or a spirit, or a god or goddess, or a prophet or saint. Considered in this light, these calamities are not mere calamities but warnings of God, which are sent to make man conscious of the reality and to remove his misunderstandings. If man learns a lesson from these and corrects his belief and conduct here in the world, he will not have to face the greater torment of God in the Hereafter.

So from here we can conclude that yes people suffer in this world for the oppression they did but that is just for a warning or so, it's for our benefit. Allah SWT wants easiness for us, He warns us by giving calamities so that we can improve and save ourselves from the hellfire. But at the same time [MENTION=39887]Supernova[/MENTION] is correct, if A oppresses B , and any calamity strikes A, then B has no right to say that it was because of his oppression that he suffered. It's all Allah's plan and indeed He is the best of planners.

Brother imraan, Even if those people suffer in this world, you'll never know whether it was a test or a punishment for the oppression. You can have this in your heart that it was due to it but still can't be sure enough yeah? We are human beings and have no right to object the decision of Allah. We have very limited knowledge. If you are making Dua against them and some calamity strikes them as an answer to your Dua, you still can't be sure that that particular calamity was a punishment. But inchallah you gain the strength to move on from it for your sake.

 

[Imraan]

Assalamualaikum

There's an ayah in the Quran on which if we reflect, we'll get a bit of understanding on this topic:

(32:21) We shall certainly have them taste some chastisement in this world in addition to the greater chastisement (of the Hereafter); perhaps they will retract (from their transgression).

If we look at its explanation: please follow through so the point becomes clear.

“The greater punishment” is the torment of the Hereafter, which will be imposed on the guilty ones in consequence of disbelief and disobedience. “Nearer punishment”, in contrast, implies those calamities which afflict man even in this world, e.g., diseases in the life of individuals, deaths of the near and dear ones, serious accidents, losses, failures, etc. and storms, earthquakes, floods, epidemics, famines, riots, wars and many other disasters, in collective life, which affect hundreds of thousands of the people simultaneously. The reason given for sending these calamities is that the people should take heed even before they are involved in the “greater torment” and give up the attitude and way of life in consequence of which they will have to suffer the greater torment ultimately. In other words, it means this: Allah has not kept man in perfect security in the world so that he may live in full peace, and become involved in the misunderstanding that there is no power above him, which can cause him harm. But Allah has so arranged things that He sends disasters and calamities on individuals as well as on nations and countries from time to time, which give man the feeling that he is helpless and that there is about him an All- Powerful Sovereign Who is ruling His universal kingdom. These calamities remind each individual and groups and nation that there is another Power above them Who is controlling their destinies. Everything has not been placed at man’s disposal. The real Power is in the hand of the Sovereign. When a calamity from Him descends on man, you can neither avert it by any artifice, nor can escape from it by invoking a jinn, or a spirit, or a god or goddess, or a prophet or saint. Considered in this light, these calamities are not mere calamities but warnings of God, which are sent to make man conscious of the reality and to remove his misunderstandings. If man learns a lesson from these and corrects his belief and conduct here in the world, he will not have to face the greater torment of God in the Hereafter.

So from here we can conclude that yes people suffer in this world for the oppression they did but that is just for a warning or so, it's for our benefit. Allah SWT wants easiness for us, He warns us by giving calamities so that we can improve and save ourselves from the hellfire. But at the same time @Supernova is correct, if A oppresses B , and any calamity strikes A, then B has no right to say that it was because of his oppression that he suffered. It's all Allah's plan and indeed He is the best of planners.

Brother imraan, Even if those people suffer in this world, you'll never know whether it was a test or a punishment for the oppression. You can have this in your heart that it was due to it but still can't be sure enough yeah? We are human beings and have no right to object the decision of Allah. We have very limited knowledge. If you are making Dua against them and some calamity strikes them as an answer to your Dua, you still can't be sure that that particular calamity was a punishment. But inchallah you gain the strength to move on from it for your sake.

Walaikum salaam sister @whitedove

Jazak Allah for your comforting words and insight. Same to @Supernova too. I have taken on board the responses. I guess I have to wait for ease in my life, this ease that I yearn for is something that I'm lacking at the moment thus impacting my psychological and physiological wellbeing. I'm sure you understand. Only Allah swt knows when it ends.

Wallahul Musta'an
[h=1]Hasbunallahu Wa Ni’mal Wakil, Wa Ni’mal Maula Wa Ni’man Nasir![/h]