Keltoi
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Perhaps a better way to put it is that we don't believe the same things about God, but the God in question is the same.
Do we worship the same God?
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Perhaps a better way to put it is that we don't believe the same things about God, but the God in question is the same.
Wow. How did this thread get active again, five months later?
As I recall, this is what I was getting at with my original question. I obviously understand that Islam and Christianity don't have the same understanding of God, but I think we do worship the same one. What my friends (from my op, back in May!) were arguing was that Islam worships an Arab moon god.
As I recall, this is what I was getting at with my original question. I obviously understand that Islam and Christianity don't have the same understanding of God, but I think we do worship the same one. What my friends (from my op, back in May!) were arguing was that Islam worships an Arab moon god.
you know thats something that really bothers me ive heard that alot latily in the media we dont worship the moon only Allah, the moon is merely a way in which we keep track of the date like the calender, except we are muslim so we dont go by the western calender because it applys to christianity only
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Nah, the idea of the moon god's so boring. Because the message of Islam is so simple, so some krazy person decided to brainwash people into thinking that we worship something else. When it's the Lord of the Worlds who we worship, the Originator of all things.
But yeah, that person will be rewarded for his own evil on the Day of Judgement for lying to deceive others. And none will be dealt with unjustly on that Day.
Nah, the idea of the moon god's so boring. Because the message of Islam is so simple, so some krazy person decided to brainwash people into thinking that we worship something else. When it's the Lord of the Worlds who we worship, the Originator of all things.
But yeah, that person will be rewarded for his own evil on the Day of Judgement for lying to deceive others. And none will be dealt with unjustly on that Day.
a must listen
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Is Crescent Moon Symbol of Islam?
Question:
Hello and thank you for answering my question! While being not a Muslim, I find the Qur’an a very interesting work. I’m currently doing some research concerning various religious symbols and I hope that you could help me. I don’t know who else to ask. The symbol for Islam is the crescent moon and star, but, I can find no mention as to its symbolism and how it originated. I have asked a few of my Muslim friends and they didn’t know. Any info you could give me and any passages from the Qur’an concerning its symbolism/origin would be greatly appreciated and help with my continuing research. Thank you.
Answer:
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
First of all, we’d like to voice our appreciation for the confidence you repose in us, and we hope our efforts come up to your expectation, and pray to Almighty Allah to help you in your study.
As for the issue you raised, we’d like to state that “the crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.
The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ.
The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.
It wasn’t until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city’s existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Othman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five daily prayers, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and it is also not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.
For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people’s minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.
Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically adopted no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon.”
Excerpted, with slight modifications, from:
http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa060401b.htm
^^ The American Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Estes, Director of islamtomorrow.com, and National Chaplain WAMY, adds:
“The symbol of Islam IS NOT the crescent moon and the star, but it was used by the last Islamic Dynasty, the Ottoman’s. The Ottoman Empire deemed it appropriate to use the star and crescent as their symbols, but not the symbols of Islam. I repeat, the star and the crescent moon are not a part of the religion of Islam. Because Islam is so strict on the concept of no other gods with Allah; and no images of any kind; it is a mistake to consider that Islam authorized the general use of such things. Additionally, Islam forbids the images (statues) of any kinds of humans, animals or any of Allah’s creations, so how about using a symbol for Islam?”
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
First of all, we’d like to voice our appreciation for the confidence you repose in us, and we hope our efforts come up to your expectation, and pray to Almighty Allah to help you in your study.
As for the issue you raised, we’d like to state that “the crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.
The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ.
The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.
It wasn’t until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city’s existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Othman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five daily prayers, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and it is also not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.
For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people’s minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.
Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically adopted no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon.”
Excerpted, with slight modifications, from:
http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa060401b.htm
^^ The American Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Estes, Director of islamtomorrow.com, and National Chaplain WAMY, adds:
“The symbol of Islam IS NOT the crescent moon and the star, but it was used by the last Islamic Dynasty, the Ottoman’s. The Ottoman Empire deemed it appropriate to use the star and crescent as their symbols, but not the symbols of Islam. I repeat, the star and the crescent moon are not a part of the religion of Islam. Because Islam is so strict on the concept of no other gods with Allah; and no images of any kind; it is a mistake to consider that Islam authorized the general use of such things. Additionally, Islam forbids the images (statues) of any kinds of humans, animals or any of Allah’s creations, so how about using a symbol for Islam?”
Allah Almighty knows best.
islamic
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Well, I was the one who posted 5 months after you opened the Thread.
People, brothers and sisters, muslims and others, I don't understand how do you keep posting that MUSLIMS and CHRISTIANS do worship the same God!
It is ilogical, it is not true! Is Jesus=Allah? NO he is NOT!
christians say JESUS is God, muslims say HE IS NOT. What is this telling you? that WE DO NOT WORSHIP the same God, even the concept of God is different from christian and muslim perspective.
You keep talking that Christians will say .. they worship God of Moses ... OKAY, maybe someone of them will say that, BUT the majorety WILL SAY that THEY WORSHIP JESUS, and HE IS THEIR God!
We muslims do worship ALLAH as God of Moses, God of Jesus, God of Muhammad, God of everyone. Even if a christian says that he Worship the God of Moses, in back of his mind The God Of Moses is JESUS!
You see...! The thing that we all say that WE WORSHIP God, the CREATOR of heavens and the earth doesn't mean that HE IS THE one worshiped by christians today and by muslims.
When muslim say that, we think of Allah. When christian say that, he thinks of Jesus, and these two are NOT ONE AND THE SAME.
Even JESUS was worshiping Allah, even he was teaching his disciples to worship the only God who is greater than him (Jesus), who is greater than ALL, God who have send him (Jesus) to the lost sheep of Israel.
Common, Allah in the Holy Quran is telling us to TALK and come in common terms with christians, that we worship none but Allah. Why he is asking from US that? why he ask from us to do that? because christians worship Allah??!!! NO! BECAUSE they do worship and make God someone who NEVER CLAIMED to be God, Jesus never said :"I am God" or "Worship Me", NEVER!
So, brothers and sisters, muslims and christians, we DO NOT worship the same God! Is it clear?
This is silly.
How many gods are there?
I have one God. Jews have one God. Islam has one God. There is only one God. They are the same. The religions are diffrent ... but religion is run by men. The men are diffrent.
islamic
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Even in your profile we can read this: "Way of Life: Undisclosed", from your answer I can see that you are a CHRISTIAN.
I have to ask you, how many Gods are there? You christians are telling me that Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but there are not three gods but one God, you are telling me that Jesus is a person, the Father is a Person, and Holy Ghost is a person, but there are no three persons but one person ... I am asking you, What language do you speak? Is that english?!
You christians say Jesus is God, we muslims say HE IS NOT GOD! There is only ONE GOD, we muslims say, but YOU MAKE THEM MORE, you make one in three, three in one, you make someone who NEVER SAID he is God, God, you make JEsus God, we don't make.
Your statements are silly, not our statements, you think silly things and ask this kind of Questions, we muslims don't!
The God worshiped by Moses was Allah, Jesus worshiped Allah, Muhammed worshiped Allah, ALLAH is the one and only God, Jesus was one send by Allah.
I hope this is clear!
any sillier than your post?
naughty!
you mean God of Jews and Muslims is same as Christian god who needs to learn the pain of humanity by becoming one of them?
God of Abraham does not need to become a man to learn about pain of man just like a sports goods manufacturer does not need to become a tennis ball in order to see what it feels like to be one.
in any case they must have at least 3 gods in order to make the crucifiction to work or the universe would have collapsed 2000 years ago while the sustainer was being strung up (nahuzobillah).
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Keltoi
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No offense, but you are showing how little you truly understand about the Christian faith. God did not "become" a man in order to understand pain, but as an act of mercy for all men(and women of course). As this topic isn't about Christian theology I won't expound further, but I felt it necessary to correct that statement.
As for your final point about "3 gods" being necessary for the crucifixion, I'm not sure how you come to that rather strange conclusion. Only creatures that have a beginning have an end, and Christ did not end.
islamic
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Please, if you have to say something on the topic, do it.
You should read about the priest in the Bible who is described like a person without beginning, without end, without father, without mother, and this quality seems to be attributed only to God. If we take this BEGINNING AND END things and if that is a proof for someone being God, this priest is MORE GOD and Jesus is LES GOD from him!
Keltoi
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I'm afraid I have no idea what you are talking about. Care to explain yourself?
Keltoi
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It isn't clear what is meant by the verse in question. I believe the most accepted theory among Jewish scholars is that Melchizedek was actually Shem, who lived 600 years and nobody could remember his lineage.
The Christian interpretation is that Melchizedek was an archetype of the Messiah. The pure Word of God, which had no connection to the Levites.
In any event, it doesn't really change the fact that only God has neither beginning nor end, which is why it is felt that Melchizedek was either a very old son of Noah(Jewish belief), or a foreshadowing of Jesus the Christ. All we know is that the Scripture isn't very clear on who or what this individual was.
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Look brother, one say THIS, the other one says THAT ... he was either this or either that ... HM, I accept it when you say that what I've made in BOLD :sunny: