It is said that on the day of Judgment, humanity in its entirety would be assembled on the judgment grounds and while they are awaiting their verdict (eternal bliss or ****ation) they are subjected to the immense heat of a sun which is placed strategically over their heads, barely making contact. Those who were pious throughout their lives would be assembled closer to the divine throne, which would shade them from the blistering sun just a few inches away from the exposed heads. we are told that God has a throne. If He has to have a throne, its natural that we assume He sits on it. By doing that, we also have to assume He has a posterior. To further add more detail to this, the prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon him accounts sitting right next to God during his ascension into Heaven while he was still alive.
Now let me make it perfectly clear… I don’t have anything against the Almighty, and my most fundamental belief is that He exists, and he retains ultimate power (omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience) over existence and beyond. I just have a lot of qualms with religion and these silly arguments arise from my deepest desire to resolve them.
Now let me make it perfectly clear… I don’t have anything against the Almighty, and my most fundamental belief is that He exists, and he retains ultimate power (omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience) over existence and beyond. I just have a lot of qualms with religion and these silly arguments arise from my deepest desire to resolve them.
God created Adam in his image. Meaning Adam's image, meaning Adam did not have to grow into Adam the man, he was born like that, if I remember correctly there are differences on the interpretation though.
Second, what do you mean body?
What makes you think God is more like a force or power?
A person once said to me, don't assume because you make an ASSoutofUandME, get it? Assume. Anyhow, you literally have made an ASS out of your asumption. 'we also have to assume He has a posterior.' In Islam there are principles in speaking about Almighty God's names and attributes. A scholar, of recent times, mentions one principle in his explanation of an older book:
The Second Principle Concerning Allaah's names:
The Third Subdivision: The Names of Allaah are not affirmed by the intellect - they can only be affirmed by Revelation
The Names of Allaah are based upon Revelation and as such, their affirmation is dependent upon what is reported in the revealed texts concerning them. Therefore, nothing can be aded to them nor subtracted. This is because the intellect is not able to ascertain by itself which names Allaah is most deserving of. So it is obligatory to depend upon the revealed texts for determining that. Also, naming Allaah with that which He did not name Himself or rejecting what He did name Himself with, is a crime against Him and a perpetration of His right. Thus abiding by the proper etiquettes with regard to that is obligatory.
The Third Subdivision: The Names of Allaah are not affirmed by the intellect - they can only be affirmed by Revelation
The Names of Allaah are based upon Revelation and as such, their affirmation is dependent upon what is reported in the revealed texts concerning them. Therefore, nothing can be aded to them nor subtracted. This is because the intellect is not able to ascertain by itself which names Allaah is most deserving of. So it is obligatory to depend upon the revealed texts for determining that. Also, naming Allaah with that which He did not name Himself or rejecting what He did name Himself with, is a crime against Him and a perpetration of His right. Thus abiding by the proper etiquettes with regard to that is obligatory.
The Explanation of Sufficiency in Creed.
It's not for us to say, if Allaah has a hand then we must assume he has 5 fingers. SubhanAllah! Allaah has a throne, he rose over it as He says, that is known, how it is done we dont know and we dont need to ask. With regards as to Almighty God having a body, maybe someone can post from Uthaymeen's explanatin of Ayatul Kursi if I am not mistaken it speaks on that?
Listen to stuff from here:
http://understand-islam.net/audio/a...iefs+.+-+.+1.+Creed/Creed+-+The+Correct+Creed
Maybe this will help:
03- The Correct Creed - Attributes
And this series
http://understand-islam.net/audio/a...+The+Meaning+of+Allaah's+Most+Beautiful+Names
This thread will probably get closed, people should not please just type 'I think x.y.z' please.
And Allah knows best.
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mehnaz
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Assalamolaikum
i'm sure tht if Allah swt wanted us to knw wat he looked like he would have revealed it unto the prophet SAW....but since tht hasnt happened i think we shud not try to make up our own imaginations...
W'salaam
i'm sure tht if Allah swt wanted us to knw wat he looked like he would have revealed it unto the prophet SAW....but since tht hasnt happened i think we shud not try to make up our own imaginations...
W'salaam
Body as any embodiment (or character) that reminisces with anything in creation.
Point taken Al Habeshi. I should state here the assumptions are based on religious dogmas (not subjecting their veracity).
Malaikah
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It is not permissible for us to say anything about Allah other than what He has said of Himself. To say that Allah has physical form is wrong and sinful as far as I know.
There is absolutely, 100% nothing natural about this assumption! It goes totally beyond the bounds of what is permitted in Islam.
There is absolutely, 100% nothing natural about this assumption! It goes totally beyond the bounds of what is permitted in Islam.
Could you back your argument from the Quran or Hadeeth of Prophet Peace Be Upon Him? So that we can stop this discussion and save ourselves from a grave sin
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Here is the passage I was referring to:
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth." (Genesis 1:26-28)
"No matter that we may mount on stilts, we still must walk on our own legs. And on the highest throne in the world, we still sit only on our own ---" - Michel de Montaigne
glo
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I have never understood the sentence 'being made in God's image' to mean that humans physically look like God, or indeed that God has a physical body ...
It may help us as human beings to think of God in somewhat human terms (i.e. he is a 'father', he sits on a throne, he holds us in his hand ...) - but that doesn't mean this is literally the case. It is merely a way for us humans to grasp the enormity of God within the limitations of our human mind.
Peace
It may help us as human beings to think of God in somewhat human terms (i.e. he is a 'father', he sits on a throne, he holds us in his hand ...) - but that doesn't mean this is literally the case. It is merely a way for us humans to grasp the enormity of God within the limitations of our human mind.
Peace
Bro, let me tell you the main problem here.
We are all speaking English, all Islamic sources are in arabic, as far as I know, so we need someone fluent enough to translate. Fluency is not the only requirement though, the translator should also have enough knowledge of the topic so as to translate properly.
We hardly have an fluent arabic and english speakers here. From them we, I guess, hardly have any students of knowledge, and no scholars.
You see the problem now, for example, body may not be what is said in the sources in Arabic. Look at this,
YUSUFALI: And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
Now, this verse claims that Jesus is saying he does not know what is in Allah's heart! Does Allah have a heart?
PICKTHAL: And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden?
The same verse, the translator writes, that Allah has a mind, does Allah have a mind?
And these are people who knew arabic and english better than me. They were translating the word, NAFS. So you see, translation alone is a problem. Even if we did not have this problem though it would be still difficult due to the fact that we dont have scholars or senior students of knowledge here, as far as I know.
So unless someone can find a scholarly, trustworthy book on this and clearly on this topic, then it may be better to remain silent.
Is not as simple as saying a verse, or hadith, one should know its context is conditions and so forth.
I don't think this is authoritative for a Muslim though, I mean, the Bible also says that God has a son. But what I was refering to was I think a hadith, those of you who listen to Anwar Al Awlaki should know it, it is in the story of the Prophets, Adam. I think.
EDIT: By the way, noone should think I am insulting the translators, SubhanAllah! I just mentioned that as it was a point brought up in a lecture by Abdur Rauf Shakir if I am not mistaken, in the explanation of Sufficiency Creed.
And Allah knows best.
I understand, that important details can be lost in translation.
I asked for a verse or a hadith that could prove to say "that Allah has physical form is wrong and sinful as far as I know"
To answer your question, Allah does not have a body. The very fact that you think of a body means that you can associate it with something you have seen or heared before, and Allah says in the holy Quran 'And there is nothing like Him and He is the All-Hearing All-Seeing'
It is part of tawheed to believe in the attributes of Allah, and as muslims we affirm that which Allah has affirmed for Himself in the Quran or on the tongue of His Messenger without destorting the meaning.
There is nothing in the Quran or Sunnah stating that Allah has a body, and thus we should not delve into this issue.
And this is why Imaam Abu Ja'far Al-Tahawi said in his famous work 'Aqeeda-tu-Tahawi'
"Anyone who describes Allah as being in any way the same as a human being has become an unbeliever. All those who grasp this will take heed and refrain from saying things such as the unbelievers say, and they will know that He, in His Attributes, is not like human beings."
Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,
do add to what Brother Khaldun posted, you will notice ayats in the Qur'an that say:
Auuthu Billahi Minashaytanir Rajim,
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,
# [2.32] They said: Glory be to Thee! we have no knowledge but that which Thou hast taught us; surely Thou art the Knowing, the Wise.
thus, if we haven't been taught it, we don't have the knowledge;
[3.66] Behold! you are they who disputed about that of which you had knowledge; why then do you dispute about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows while you do not know.
that follows a similar vein..
# [6.148] Those who are polytheists will say: If Allah had pleased we would not have associated (aught with Him) nor our fathers, nor would we have forbidden (to ourselves) anything; even so did those before them reject until they tasted Our punishment. Say: Have you any knowledge with you so you should bring it forth to us? You only follow a conjecture and you only tell lies.
thus, speaking without knowledge is akin to lying
[17.36] And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.
same thing, if you don't have the knowledge
[18.5] They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers; a grievous word it is that comes out of their mouths; they speak nothing but a lie.
[24.15] When you received it with your tongues and spoke with your mouths what you had no knowledge of, and you deemed it an easy matter while with Allah it was grievous
those come from a searchable Qu'ran:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/
so we limit ourselves to what we have been specifically told about Allah. not sure if that helps.
Brian Greene (in his PBS TV Show The Elegant Universe) demonstrates the futility of explaining Theoretical Physics to a dog. The dog didn’t understand a single character he was writing on the chalkboard, simply because its primitive brain didn’t know what the character resembled, which is probably because it was incapable of understanding the related symbology. We are different, not only do we understand quantum and theoretical physics, but we CAN also understand a lot about God. Things we cannot understand, shouldn’t, as I believe, even cross our minds just like that dog doesn’t wonder about the existence of the Lambda or the Delta. In case the dog does in deed wonder about those things, err… I’ll stop asking questions as soon as anyone proves it.
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