Extreme Interpretations

[Thinker]

I felt promoted to post this question after reading a post on this forum from a Muslim speaking of a wish ‘not to live’ because his/her ears are exposed to music! That is, in my view not just extreme, it is so very sad. Sad because someone has put him/her in fear of the penalties for listening to music. (I’ve not included this post in that thread because I have been told previously it is not appropriate for me (a non Muslim) to post my opinion in that advice section).

I recently watched a most interesting documentary on TV about Saudi Arabia. A Prince there, the Governor of ???? Province allowed a TV crew to follow him for a period.

Never having been to Saudi I have formed a view of the people and regime there as being about as Islamically fundamental as is possible to be. I was surprised by some things I saw and heard. First I was pleasantly surprised to hear that the Prince had refreshingly pragmatic views. Next I was surprised to hear him infer that some practices are tradition rather than Islamic requirements and will change. Finally I was surprised at how (relatively) liberal he is.

OK so what’s the point I want to make? The Saudi Prince appeared comfortable interpreting some Islamic texts more liberally than some members of this forum. For example, the Saudi Prince and lots of other people in his court didn’t have the beard; why is it OK for him not to have a beard and not OK for that girl to listen to music? Also, some women in Saudi covered every part of their body and some showed their face and their hair, if they can find interpretations to allow that why do some of you strive to push extreme interpretations on others causing them such distress?

 

[جوري]

I don't think listening to Music is a 'cardinal' sin-- my view is you can be a good Muslim and have a few flaws... some scholars differ in their opinion on the subject of music-- It is better to give up something where there is doubt for the sake of Allah swt, but I don't think music can be compared to other more serious sins!

People have different degrees of religiosity and Allah swt recognizes that!

as you can possibly interpret plainly from this sura

[Media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlgC5CKh26U[/Media]​

and Allah swt knows best!

 

[brotherinfaith]

a sin is a sin cardinal or not and the prophet warned us from al mohakirat which are the sins which people see as not harmless because too many of those will throw the person in hell as the prophet sala lahu alaihi wa sallam said and music is unlawful and i think a good muslim will never appreciate that and that is not extremism

 

[aadil77]

I felt promoted to post this question after reading a post on this forum from a Muslim speaking of a wish ‘not to live’ because his/her ears are exposed to music! That is, in my view not just extreme, it is so very sad. Sad because someone has put him/her in fear of the penalties for listening to music. (I’ve not included this post in that thread because I have been told previously it is not appropriate for me (a non Muslim) to post my opinion in that advice section).

I recently watched a most interesting documentary on TV about Saudi Arabia. A Prince there, the Governor of ???? Province allowed a TV crew to follow him for a period.

Never having been to Saudi I have formed a view of the people and regime there as being about as Islamically fundamental as is possible to be. I was surprised by some things I saw and heard. First I was pleasantly surprised to hear that the Prince had refreshingly pragmatic views. Next I was surprised to hear him infer that some practices are tradition rather than Islamic requirements and will change. Finally I was surprised at how (relatively) liberal he is.

OK so what’s the point I want to make? The Saudi Prince appeared comfortable interpreting some Islamic texts more liberally than some members of this forum. For example, the Saudi Prince and lots of other people in his court didn’t have the beard; why is it OK for him not to have a beard and not OK for that girl to listen to music? Also, some women in Saudi covered every part of their body and some showed their face and their hair, if they can find interpretations to allow that why do some of you strive to push extreme interpretations on others causing them such distress?

You're not showing the full picture here, the poster did not wish to 'not live' just because of music being played in the house, she had issues with her parents deliberatley disturbing her - she couldn't get any quiet in her own room! Try thinking of it from a non islamic perspective if you can't think of it from an islamic one - ever tried studying in your room when the tv's been played loudly downstairs? it doesn't work and it gets to you, the same thing happens when you try praying or reading the Quran

 

[Thinker]

You're not showing the full picture here, the poster did not wish to 'not live' just because of music being played in the house, she had issues with her parents deliberatley disturbing her - she couldn't get any quiet in her own room! Try thinking of it from a non islamic perspective if you can't think of it from an islamic one - ever tried studying in your room when the tv's been played loudly downstairs? it doesn't work and it gets to you, the same thing happens when you try praying or reading the Quran

She says . . . . I feel this pain in my chest. . .. I am a teenager, I am trying to practise. I live in a household where music is being played for amusement 24 hrs in a day. I tried to escape from it I cant. I listen to it, cause they play it loud in the living room. . . . I have little muslim influence around my area . . I keep falling to their trap, so I see myself being called to watch with them, and see "new songs". . . .My imaan is getting weaker, the Qur’an is not part of my life anymore. When I try to read it, they disturb me on purpose...I dont cry so easily but I cant stop right now. My heart is torn. I fear that I go to hell.

 

[Thinker]

The points I am trying to make are:

Those of you who choose to interpret Islamic text in an extreme way because you want to place yourself ahead of your fellow Muslims as being more pius should know that you have an effect on other vulnerable (often young) Muslims who are troubled because they do not match your ‘extreme’ standards.

In some situations you are more extreme than those (the Saudis) who are considered extreme.

Finally all religions have a theme of penitence, often physically painful penitence and there seems to be some credence in suffering pain to show your love for God but I question whether some of the things you do are done to prove your love for God or done to outdo your fellow Muslim.

 

[islamirama]

The points I am trying to make are:

Those of you who choose to interpret Islamic text in an extreme way because you want to place yourself ahead of your fellow Muslims as being more pius should know that you have an effect on other vulnerable (often young) Muslims who are troubled because they do not match your ‘extreme’ standards.

In some situations you are more extreme than those (the Saudis) who are considered extreme.

Finally all religions have a theme of penitence, often physically painful penitence and there seems to be some credence in suffering pain to show your love for God but I question whether some of the things you do are done to prove your love for God or done to outdo your fellow Muslim.

Firstly, your whole understanding is based on limited knowledge in all of this.

The saudis are extremists ******s who want to kill every single infidel. They don't like the infidels one bit and can't stand the sight of them. These extremist saudis marry 4 wives and have 100s of women in harems, and they beat their wives because islam and their mullah tells them its ok. All of this is portrayed and taught to the American public by the American media.

Reality is that Saudi has over a million non-muslim expatriates working there. Not everyone has 4 wives and there are no harem. There are people who who do niqaab, hijab, or neither. Some cities ares conservative while others are quite liberal.

As for the interpretation of the issue. There are some fools who like to interpret the Quran as they choose, many of these fools are not just Muslim "extremists" but are also secular extremists Muslims as well who try to justify their unislamic ways. The saudi prince or king or any royalty is the last person you should be listening to about Islam. They don't wear the beards because they follow their culture and not Islam. These princes have casinos in US and spend upto 20 million on gambling in one visit over seas. Only person qualified to interpret the Quran are the scholars, who have devoted their lives to understanding it and the history behind it and what not.

So don' compare the members on here with those saudis because they are not representing Islam. If you want to compare then compare with the Islam scholars try to set an example of how one practices Islam.

As for the girl in question. Apparently she can't find any peace at her home because of these insensitive family members who have no respect for other family members nor can they give her the space she needs. She isn't saying that Music is haram and she doesn't want to listen to it (even if that's her views). What she is saying is that it's on 24/7 and she can't have any peace in all that noise all the time. It doesn't matter if you are reading the Quran or the Bible or any othe religious book, how can you concentrate reading with such noise being there 24/7. And also she mentiones when she tries to read it, they disturb her on purpose. So it's quite clearly that the issue here is that those insensitive and abnoxious people are disturbing her on purpose and won't let her have some time alone to herself in peace.

 

[جوري]

there is no such thing as extreme or not extreme in Islam.. there is practicing well, and practicing not so well, given you understand the framework of what it is you are practicing..

prophet Mohammed (PBUH) when approached by a simple Bedouin asked him what can I do to be a good Muslim, he understood his level of discernment and advised him only to keep with the five pillars.. he also advised that if you are knowledgeable that you not speak above others and speak in a way that others can understand..

I really don't understand what you mean by painful penance otherwise, seems more in concert with self flagellating catholics than anything in Islam

The Prophet said: 'The religion (of Islam) is easy. No one ever made it difficult without it becoming too much for him. So avoid extremes and strike a balance, do the best you can and be cheerful, and seek Allah's help (through prayer) in the morning, and evening, and part of the night.' (Sahîh Bukhârî)

 

[Thinker]

there is no such thing as extreme or not extreme in Islam.. there is practicing well, and practicing not so well, given you understand the framework of what it is you are practicing..

Sky – you know I hold you in high respect and wouldn’t attempt to argue against anything you say.

I use the word extreme because I think it is the correct word to use. Unfortunately when the word extreme and Islam are put together it conjures up pictures of hatred and violence. As I said, what is extreme and what is not is subjective but outside of strictly Muslims countries, not listening to music, not shaking hands and worrying about plucking eyebrows etc. etc is (in my view) ‘extreme.’ It is clear that many of the Muslims posting here are struggling to reconcile the profile of a good Muslim portrayed by some here whilst also coping with the transition from childhood to adult and at the same time living as a ‘devout’ Muslim in a non Muslim country.

I, like you, have seen posts from young Muslims distressed because they or those near to them aren’t doing what is required of them to avoid hell. I recall for example a post from a young Muslim distressed because his parents would be going to hell because they weren’t Muslim. The usual response to such questions is someone quoting the hadith that they will go to hell and others suggesting they pray harder. I recall the post from the young girl who expressed her disgust after accidentally shaking hands with a man. These (to me) are an extreme interpretation of Islamic text or choosing to follow obscure text which are extreme.

Few here would criticise a Muslim who chose to adopt those extreme interpretation of what a Muslim should do or not do. My question is, do they consider the effects on those young Muslims living in a secular society. I can’t believe that a just God would send a good person to hell for listening to music or for wearing nail polish because that prevented proper wudu and I can’t believe that any thinking person would also believe that. There are lots of members posting here who are quick to pounce on someone not conforming to this hadith or that but there are few advocating moderation.

Finally slightly off topic but on the subject of beards, I was just watching the Aljazeera news with a clip on the election of the Mayor of Jerusalem showing film of ultra orthodox Jews and those Muslims here in the UK with beards conforming to the hadith look more like those ultra orthodox Jews than me; just thought that a little ironic!

 

[cute123]

The points I am trying to make are:

Those of you who choose to interpret Islamic text in an extreme way because you want to place yourself ahead of your fellow Muslims as being more pius should know that you have an effect on other vulnerable (often young) Muslims who are troubled because they do not match your ‘extreme’ standards.

In some situations you are more extreme than those (the Saudis) who are considered extreme.

Finally all religions have a theme of penitence, often physically painful penitence and there seems to be some credence in suffering pain to show your love for God but I question whether some of the things you do are done to prove your love for God or done to outdo your fellow Muslim.

Its nothing like that. We muslims all have to abide the things which have been forbidden. The music one of them. and try to do the things mentioned as far as we can.

And it would be better if you see Islam as it is rather than try to interpret it the way it is followed by people. Well this statement could lead to another debate.

 

[maryam87]

i guess i do understand where ur coming from since ur not a muslim i wouldnt expect u to understand these issues. However one thing i guess u need to realise is that islam is not jst a religion, its a way of life!!
Everything we do we involve islam into it. Therefore i guess the person ur were referring to was angry that they were struggling to do just that hence that was the reason for their trouble (im assuming?) not the actual music etc

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings Thinker,

I use the word extreme because I think it is the correct word to use. Unfortunately when the word extreme and Islam are put together it conjures up pictures of hatred and violence. As I said, what is extreme and what is not is subjective but outside of strictly Muslims countries, not listening to music, not shaking hands and worrying about plucking eyebrows etc. etc is (in my view) ‘extreme.’

Extremism is not a part of Islam. This is not a subjective notion but rather, if one studies Islam in the proper manner, it becomes clear what extremism is and how it is far from being involved with Islam.

Allaah the Exalted has prescribed for His servants a perfect system to follow. Islam is the religion of purity and cleanliness; the religion of the best standards of behaviour and the noblest of manners. It stresses and clarifies whatever issues Muslims may need, and whatever principles may rectify their lives. There is nothing that benefits Muslims unless it is stated, stressed and enjoined in Islam. Moreover, it is a religion of easiness and simplicity, not difficulty and strictness; it decrees suitable rulings for each case, which ensure fulfilling legal purposes and duties with no difficulty.

Now just because you personally disagree with something or find it strange, does not automatically make it "extreme". It is expected that as a non-Muslim examining all these things from the outside, some of them may appear unfamiliar. Rather, if you first focused on the foundations of Islam, this would allow everything to fall into place. The most important thing in Islam is worshipping Allaah alone, so if you understand this great principle, you will understand everything else. Simply by having this perfect belief in Allaah will save a person from eternal punishment in Hell. Let us also remember that Allaah the most Exalted is a Just and Forgiving God who will forgive all other sins besides associating partners with Him, if He wills and if one sincerely repents.

It is clear that many of the Muslims posting here are struggling to reconcile the profile of a good Muslim portrayed by some here whilst also coping with the transition from childhood to adult and at the same time living as a ‘devout’ Muslim in a non Muslim country.

As Islam provides the answers to everything, all of this is easily reconciled for anyone trying to be a good Muslim.

This thread shall now be closed as there is nothing of substance being discussed, merely your own opinions by which you judge Islam. What is and is not extreme is not defined by the whims and desires of the people but rather the perfect commands of our Lord and Sustainer. The topic of interpretation of Islamic texts is already the topic of another one of your threads. We can discuss it there without repeating it here.

Thread closed.