Fall back, men, Afghanistan is a nasty war we can never win

[ahsan28]

The war that can bring neither peace nor freedom

Tuesday February 5, 2008
The Guardian


The crisis of the Afghan occupation is a reminder of its fraudulent claims, growing cost in blood, and certainty of failure :embarrass

The intensity of this armed campaign reflects a significant broadening of the Taliban's base, as it has increasingly become the umbrella for a revived Pashtun nationalism on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistani border, as well as for jihadists and others committed to fighting foreign occupation. The original aims of the US-led invasion were of course the capture of Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, and Osama bin Laden, along with the destruction of al-Qaida.

None of those aims has been achieved :embarrass

The war in Afghanistan, which claimed more than 6,500 lives last year, cannot be won. It has brought neither peace, development nor freedom, and has no prospect of doing so :embarrass

The only real chance for peace in Afghanistan is the withdrawal of foreign forces as part of a wider political settlement, including the Taliban and neighbouring countries like Iran and Pakistan. But having put their credibility on the line, it seems the western powers are going to have to learn the lessons of the colonial era again and again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2252640,00.html

 

[ahsan28]

UK aid effort in Afghanistan "dysfunctional"


Britain's aid efforts in Afghanistan are failing, undermining military gains and fuelling the Taliban insurgency, a think-tank with long experience in the country said on Wednesday.

The United States has criticised its European allies saying many of them don't know how to conduct counter-insurgency operations and that others have shown a distinct unwillingness to commit more troops to combat roles in Afghanistan.

Senlis said in its report "Afghanistan - Decision Point 2008" that NATO needed to double its force if it were to have any impact against the Taliban, which it said was fully entrenched throughout southern regions of the country.

MacDonald said Taliban militants, or those allied to the movement, were in control of most roads in Helmand and were running checkpoints :embarrass


Feb 06, 2008

http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=35583




The good war?


POLAND has become the latest country to echo recent Canadian and German frustration over Nato’s apparent inability to successfully confront the downside in Afghanistan.

As has become apparent, Nato’s fortunes are dipping primarily because of members’ “unwillingness” to commit troops, which owes to fierce resistance by resurgent Taleban elements. Every year fighting dies down as Afghanistan comes under cover of thick snow, and for some years now every time the Taleban have done better jobs of recuperating and planning ahead of spring, when fighting resumes. It bears noting that despite Nato’s shortcomings, the bulk of the responsibility for the Afghan failure must rest with the United States.

The short sightedness has now all but made for a repeat performance of the famous Soviet jihad, when Afghanistan’s rag-tag militias bled a military behemoth to death. :embarrass


Khaleej Times
6 February 2008


http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...itorial_February13.xml&section=editorial&col=



Blame the mission, not the alliance


As Allin points out, Nato went into Afghanistan under its Article 5 - a commitment to stand by a member when attacked, as the US had been on 9/11. “It was necessary to do that or Nato would have been in a mess”. But the invasion has become a long-term mission directed to trying to help one of the poorest countries in the world. The problem is not with the strength of Nato but the evolving demands of the mission.

A large majority of Germans - 85 per cent - are strongly opposed to sending their forces to the south of Afghanistan.

Afghanistan was always going to be a difficult campaign, presenting enormous military and social challenges. :embarrass


From The Times
February 7, 2008


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/bronwen_maddox/article3322157.ece

 

[MaiCarInMtl]

I just wish they would get our Canadian troops out of there. I think many of us were duped into going in to "help" and were abandonned once the going got tough and there was another country to take advantage of. Ijust want our troops out of there, back home, safe... I want my cousin to come back alive. He never wanted to go, he never believe in "the mission". I feel bad for all people who have lost loved ones, regardless of nationality.

 

[krypton6]

I just wish they would get our Canadian troops out of there. I think many of us were duped into going in to "help" and were abandonned once the going got tough and there was another country to take advantage of. Ijust want our troops out of there, back home, safe... I want my cousin to come back alive. He never wanted to go, he never believe in "the mission". I feel bad for all people who have lost loved ones, regardless of nationality.

Why did he go then? How was he forced into it?

 

[MaiCarInMtl]

Why did he go then? How was he forced into it?

He signed up for the US National Guard when he was a teenager (it was goign to help get him through school). His contract was going to expire within a month and he was ordered to ship out. He couldn't get out of it.

I think he was stupid to sign up for the National Guard in the first place. He never believed in anything they ever sold people concerning sending the army over and helping people out. Why fight for a "cause" you don't believe in. I'm still mad at him for signing up for the army (even though he was quite young when he did, probably naive), but he's still my cousin and I still want him to come home safe. He's been over there for over a year now and he won't be coming back until the summer... that'll make it an 18 month tour. They have to turn off the power at his base at night or else they keep getting bombarded.

This whole mess all because people wanted more power, more money! The blood of all the people that died are on their hands. May God deal with them as he sees fit.

 

[krypton6]

He signed up for the US National Guard when he was a teenager (it was goign to help get him through school). His contract was going to expire within a month and he was ordered to ship out. He couldn't get out of it.

I think he was stupid to sign up for the National Guard in the first place. He never believed in anything they ever sold people concerning sending the army over and helping people out. Why fight for a "cause" you don't believe in. I'm still mad at him for signing up for the army (even though he was quite young when he did, probably naive), but he's still my cousin and I still want him to come home safe. He's been over there for over a year now and he won't be coming back until the summer... that'll make it an 18 month tour. They have to turn off the power at his base at night or else they keep getting bombarded.

This whole mess all because people wanted more power, more money! The blood of all the people that died are on their hands. May God deal with them as he sees fit.

By attacking and invading a nation your cousin made a decision, he chose to ruin the lives of millions of people in order to save a few months or years of his own life.

Unless the punishment for disobeying is life in prison, many years in prison or execution, your cousin was in fact not forced to hold up his rifle and step on that plane.

 

[MaiCarInMtl]

By attacking and invading a nation your cousin made a decision, he chose to ruin the lives of millions of people in order to save a few months or years of his own life.

Unless the punishment for disobeying is life in prison, many years in prison or execution, your cousin was in fact not forced to hold up his rifle and step on that plane.

He did not invade, he was shipped off! Can you NOT READ?! HE NEVER WANTED TO GO, HE NEVER BELIEVED IN GOING, HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE THERE! You do know that they send deserters to prison, right?

My cousin never wanted to go in and hurt people, he never wanted to ruin lives, he never wanted to be sent off to some country and be forced to fight for the wrong reasons. Did you ever think that some people join the National Guard to help their country, to bring aid to people within their country? Many never wanted to be sent over.

I won't go any further into this. But thanks for saying my cousin is selfish and destroys lives, it's very much appreciated.

 

[krypton6]

So in order to stay away from prison your cousin invaded and attacked a weak and poor country. A few years in prison is nothing, not that he would have bin prisoned!

I've heard of former marines who refused to fight, but they were not prisoned! They were send back to america and then kicked out of the country.

Your cousin was not forced unless......

 

[ahsan28]

This whole mess all because people wanted more power, more money! The blood of all the people that died are on their hands. May God deal with them as he sees fit.

Brother I appreciate your views regarding the on-going illegitimate operation in Afghanistan. Here are few lines regarding expenditure of small arms ammunition fired by Canadians in two years:-

Canadians fired almost five million bullets in Afghanistan in two years

February 06, 2008


OTTAWA -- Canadian troops fired more than 4.7 million bullets at insurgents over the last 20 months in Afghanistan, according to new statistics released by the military.

In an abrupt reversal tonight, the Defence Department issued the figures requested by the Ottawa Citizen two weeks ago. The request was made after U.S and British governments provided similar figures to the public.


http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=6eea0d9d-3f82-4efa-9bfb-ddfb9ae9b8a9&k=2200


You can imagine the casualties yourself.

 

[krypton6]

^ How many canadians are there in Afghanistan?

 

[ahsan28]

Berlin says it has no plan to boost troops in Afghanistan :?

BERLIN, Feb. 11 (Xinhua) -- The German government on Monday denied news reports that it is considering to increase its troop levels in Afghanistan.

"There is no such consideration at this time," said Defense Ministry spokesman Thomas Raabe at a press conference.

At the annual security meeting in the southern German city of Munich, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates accused some NATO allies of failing to share burdens in addressing global threats, especially in Afghanistan.

Without mentioning Germany's name, Gates said some nations are "forcing other allies to bear disproportionate share of the fighting and the dying."


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-02/12/content_7591405.htm



No plan to send extra Australian troops to Afghanistan :X

Australia is not planning to send more combat troops, the government says.

Foreign Minister Stephen Smith said today the government would take a new approach to Australia's involvement in Afghanistan, but that does not include any increased military commitment.

Australian soldiers are currently serving in the conflict-ravaged country, performing dangerous work. "We currently don't have in contemplation any increase of the numbers that we have," Mr Smith told ABC TV today.


http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...-to-afghanistan/2008/02/10/1202578584591.html



Allies' refusal to boost Afghanistan troops a threat to Nato, Gates says :enough!:

Monday February 11 2008

The US administration warned yesterday that Nato could be destroyed if European allied troops were not prepared to fight and die in Afghanistan and argued that, unlike the Americans, Europeans were failing to grasp how much was at stake for western security in Afghanistan. The US defence secretary, Robert Gates, also pointed to the dangers of a western alliance divided between US forces who do the fighting and Europeans who follow later to conduct the civilian clean-up operations.

Following weeks of recrimination between Washington and European capitals, particularly Berlin, over troop contributions and fighting capacity in Nato's troubled Afghan mission, Gates told a conference of defence policy-makers and security experts in Munich that Nato's future was on the line in the war against the Taliban in southern and eastern Afghanistan.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/11/afghanistan

 

[root]

The British are sending in a couple of divisions from it's airborne brigade, it is the biggest deployment of airbourne forces since world war 2. The paras are one of Britains elite troops,

Nice......

 

[krypton6]

^I wish them good luck:raging:^

 

[Cognescenti]

Allies' refusal to boost Afghanistan troops a threat to Nato, Gates says :enough!:

Monday February 11 2008

The US administration warned yesterday that Nato could be destroyed if European allied troops were not prepared to fight and die in Afghanistan and argued that, unlike the Americans, Europeans were failing to grasp how much was at stake for western security in Afghanistan. The US defence secretary, Robert Gates, also pointed to the dangers of a western alliance divided between US forces who do the fighting and Europeans who follow later to conduct the civilian clean-up operations.

Following weeks of recrimination between Washington and European capitals, particularly Berlin, over troop contributions and fighting capacity in Nato's troubled Afghan mission, Gates told a conference of defence policy-makers and security experts in Munich that Nato's future was on the line in the war against the Taliban in southern and eastern Afghanistan.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/11/afghanistan

Gates is right about this. The credibility of NATO is at stake, but the US knows who its true allies are and we know there aren't very many. This is not new information.

German troops would fight hard if there were an attack on Germany, as would the Poles in defending their country.

The French, if some other power surged across their Eastern border would....well...never mind.

Ashan...you do realize that even with talk about US troop drawdowns in Iraq, virtually nobody has argued domestically for abandoning the effort in Afghanistan. They can't, even if they wished as they have contrasted Afghanistan to Iraq as the "good war" vs. the "mistake".

I would not buy taliban futures if I were you.