Hey

GINGERBEARDMAN said:
Interesting, so you don't believe these gods interact with you or creation, yet you worship them?
what evidence do you have they are actually real and not the from the imagination of others?
Click to expand...

I don't. No consistent evidence really backs the claims of potential existent god. Humans no matter where they have been have developed some concept of divinity and this conception whether true or false is used to authorize the legitimacy of kings, hierarchy, ethics and society as a whole. Whether it is true or untrue is irrelevant as long as it benefits yourself.

Regardless of ritual or practice I find it to be beneficial. I don't mix religious practice with science and claims of truth. That is what philosophy and empiricism is for.

If evidence backed a true and undeniable inherent god . . . I would then find it a necessity to give that said god due worship.

My attitude towards religion and claims of deities are very relaxed I know. But it doesn't make me an ***hole (sorry about the language); I don't believe in interfering with somebody's customs of religion, but I do believe in appreciating it if it is good and understanding it. I see no reason why Islam should not be deemed a wholesome religion which is the reason I am here talking to you ;).

If you can make a claim of a truly existent god that goes in the realm of empiricism I am all ears, make your claim! I would love to hear it.
 
TotalSubmission said:
I don't. No consistent evidence really backs the claims of potential existent god. Humans no matter where they have been have developed some concept of divinity and this conception whether true or false is used to authorize the legitimacy of kings, hierarchy, ethics and society as a whole. Whether it is true or untrue is irrelevant as long as it benefits yourself.

Regardless of ritual or practice I find it to be beneficial. I don't mix religious practice with science and claims of truth. That is what philosophy and empiricism is for.

If evidence backed a true and undeniable inherent god . . . I would then find it a necessity to give that said god due worship.

My attitude towards religion and claims of deities are very relaxed I know. But it doesn't make me an ***hole (sorry about the language); I don't believe in interfering with somebody's customs of religion, but I do believe in appreciating it if it is good and understanding it. I see no reason why Islam should not be deemed a wholesome religion which is the reason I am here talking to you ;).

If you can make a claim of a truly existent god that goes in the realm of empiricism I am all ears, make your claim! I would love to hear it.
Click to expand...

OK so to sum up, you find the common sense position for their being some sort of Creator, or creators to be true,
But you've chosen these particular gods, but don't have any particular reason to believe them to be more true than others other than personal experience,

If someone could show you conclusive proof of another God being true, you'd worship it, and follow that way of life, agreed?
 
GINGERBEARDMAN said:
OK so to sum up, you find the common sense position for their being some sort of Creator, or creators to be true,
But you've chosen these particular gods, but don't have any particular reason to believe them to be more true than others other than personal experience,
Click to expand...

I don't find it necessary for there to be a creator deity no. I wouldn't call it common sense, considering it would require proofs which go beyond human scope. I find it highly irrelevant whether a deity is existent in its ability to create in so much as it has the properties of existing. Going through the arguments of creationism are pointless since it would require fallacious claims on Weak Analogies, improper antecedents and Circulum arguments.

I could easily say that any said being created the world and even at that it could not be proven. You have to validate the existence of said being first then prove it has creative capabilities. I am not saying it can't happen it just isn't in the realm of evidence.

If someone could show you conclusive proof of another God being true, you'd worship it, and follow that way of life, agreed?
Click to expand...

Well of course. I hold the plausibility of any god existing in some shape or form but I don't hold it to any degree of certainty. Certainty is key here since hypothetically a lot of things can or cannot exist.
 
No one has the right to be worshipped except for God (Allah). This concept is the central idea that was proclaimed by all the Prophets throughout the ages. It is the most important creedal belief in Islam. The purpose of Islam is to call people away from the worship of creation and call them towards the worship of the Creator.This is where Islam differs greatly from most other religions. Though most religions teach that there is a Supreme Being who created all that exists, they are rarely free of some form of polytheism with respect to worship. These religions either call on their adherents to worship other beings as gods besides God (Allah) – though usually placing these other gods on a lower level than the Supreme Being – or they demand that their adherents call on other beings as intercessors between them and God.All the Prophets and Messengers, from Adam to Muhammad (may God praise them all) called people to worship God alone. This is the purest, simplest, most natural faith. Islam rejects the notion of the cultural anthropologists that the early religion of human beings was polytheism, and then slowly the idea of monotheism evolved from that.The truth is that the natural religion of humanity is to worship God alone. People later came along and corrupted this religion, introducing into it the worship of other beings. People seem to have a tendency to want to focus their devotions on something tangible, something imaginable, even though they have an instinctive knowledge that the Creator of the universe is far beyond their imaginations. Throughout human history, God sent Prophets and Messengers to call the people back to the worship of the One True God, and repeatedly, people returned to the worship of created beings.God created human beings to worship Him alone. The greatest possible sin is to worship anyone other than God (Allah). It is no less sinful if the worshipper intends to get nearer to God by offering devotions to another being. God does not need intercessors or intermediaries. He hears all of our prayers and has complete knowledge of everything that happens.At the same time, God does not need our worship. He is completely independent of all things. If every person in the world were to come together to worship God alone, they would not benefit God in the least. They would not add an atom’s weight to His dominion. Conversely, if all creation abandoned the worship of God, this would not decrease His dominion in the least. By worshipping God, we benefit our own souls and fulfill the purpose for which we were created. We do not fulfill any need of God. He is needless.
 
azc said:
No one has the right to be worshipped except for God (Allah). This concept is the central idea that was proclaimed by all the Prophets throughout the ages. It is the most important creedal belief in Islam. The purpose of Islam is to call people away from the worship of creation and call them towards the worship of the Creator.This is where Islam differs greatly from most other religions. Though most religions teach that there is a Supreme Being who created all that exists, they are rarely free of some form of polytheism with respect to worship. These religions either call on their adherents to worship other beings as gods besides God (Allah) – though usually placing these other gods on a lower level than the Supreme Being – or they demand that their adherents call on other beings as intercessors between them and God.All the Prophets and Messengers, from Adam to Muhammad (may God praise them all) called people to worship God alone. This is the purest, simplest, most natural faith. Islam rejects the notion of the cultural anthropologists that the early religion of human beings was polytheism, and then slowly the idea of monotheism evolved from that.The truth is that the natural religion of humanity is to worship God alone. People later came along and corrupted this religion, introducing into it the worship of other beings. People seem to have a tendency to want to focus their devotions on something tangible, something imaginable, even though they have an instinctive knowledge that the Creator of the universe is far beyond their imaginations. Throughout human history, God sent Prophets and Messengers to call the people back to the worship of the One True God, and repeatedly, people returned to the worship of created beings.God created human beings to worship Him alone. The greatest possible sin is to worship anyone other than God (Allah). It is no less sinful if the worshipper intends to get nearer to God by offering devotions to another being. God does not need intercessors or intermediaries. He hears all of our prayers and has complete knowledge of everything that happens.At the same time, God does not need our worship. He is completely independent of all things. If every person in the world were to come together to worship God alone, they would not benefit God in the least. They would not add an atom’s weight to His dominion. Conversely, if all creation abandoned the worship of God, this would not decrease His dominion in the least. By worshipping God, we benefit our own souls and fulfill the purpose for which we were created. We do not fulfill any need of God. He is needless.
Click to expand...

But why would such a God demand his creation to worship him? Would our worship not be best to fulfill the needs of ourselves and any such god. Would it not be best for us to serve any proposed good on the basis that there is a need or purpose of some sort. Why would a needless god care? Indeed a deity doesn't have needs but it would definitely have wants and desires.
 
TotalSubmission said:
But why would such a God demand his creation to worship him? Would our worship not be best to fulfill the needs of ourselves and any such god. Would it not be best for us to serve any proposed good on the basis that there is a need or purpose of some sort. Why would a needless god care? Indeed a deity doesn't have needs but it would definitely have wants and desires.
Click to expand...
are you superior to your gods or vice versa?
 
Allah swt guides who does he will.
 
Last edited:
TotalSubmission said:
No, not in the slightest bit. I am the opposite and if anything my existence would be to serve the gods
Click to expand...
a: what qualities your gods have whereby they are superior to you?B: Do your gods need you to serve them? C: Are you bound to any laws which compel you to serve them?
 
Last edited:
azc said:
a: what qualities your gods have whereby they are superior to you?B: Do your gods need you to serve them? C: Are you bound to any laws which compel you to serve them?
Click to expand...
They posses extreme greatness in actions, deeds, qualities and virtues. For example Athena and unrivalled wisdom. Her absolute sense of law and order.

You can say your good has infinite wisdom but this would only lead to contradictions and paradoxes.
I would never set limits on what something can potentially posses but I would never profess infinity.

B . . .

Any would compel service from man. Gods are the highest known form of order and sovereignty this would only be natural for a human to profess worship to such a thing.

C . . .

I am bound by the nature of man to seek and honor rightful rule. This is why form governments and respect our parents
 
In post #1- your a self declared a knowledgeable person but so far you've produced no knowledge In post #11- you deny traditions of other polythiests but bunch of rituals, magic and ways of prayers isn't considered as traditional?In post #17- you accept quarrel between your different gods but you've no clue who settles their dispute or what does their quarrel affect the nature. You deny any laws for man and your a meek and a lawless servant of your gods Your gods have limited qualities like your Apollo is limited ONLY to the writings of man, it means I've more qualities than your gods. In post #19-- you deny any law for deities, it means your deities are lawless.-In post #23-- you see uncertainty regarding True God but strangely you blindly follow your false gods with certainty-In#25-- your gods needs ''wants and desires''. What're they?In Post #30-- your deity Athena is expert in law and order to govern what? it needs ''laws'' which you've denied.You seek honorable and rightful rule? You mean it to ''laws''? Or rule others? Or be ruled by others?
 
azc said:
In post #1- your a self declared a knowledgeable person but so far you've produced no knowledge In post #11- you deny traditions of other polythiests but bunch of rituals, magic and ways of prayers isn't considered as traditional?In post #17- you accept quarrel between your different gods but you've no clue who settles their dispute or what does their quarrel affect the nature. You deny any laws for man and your a meek and a lawless servant of your gods Your gods have limited qualities like your Apollo is limited ONLY to the writings of man, it means I've more qualities than your gods. In post #19-- you deny any law for deities, it means your deities are lawless.-In post #23-- you see uncertainty regarding True God but strangely you blindly follow your false gods with certainty-In#25-- your gods needs ''wants and desires''. What're they?In Post #30-- your deity Athena is expert in law and order to govern what? it needs ''laws'' which you've denied.You seek honorable and rightful rule? You mean it to ''laws''? Or rule others? Or be ruled by others?
Click to expand...

But I never said any of these things, I never claimed I honor Apollo or find validity in scripture. You're using a bad dawah tactic and trust me, I know bad dawah ;)
 
Welcome, I'm new here too. Interesting to see a Mesopotamian Polytheist around, I'm more familiar with Hellenic and Norse Pagans myself.

I look forward to seeing more from you.
 
al-Andalusi said:
Welcome, I'm new here too. Interesting to see a Mesopotamian Polytheist around, I'm more familiar with Hellenic and Norse Pagans myself.I look forward to seeing more from you.
Click to expand...
welcome to forum.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top