It is according to your reasoning and your reasoning is false. According to the Islamic reasoning, trinitarian Christians worship two created beings as if they are God although they are not. It doesn't differ whether you are regarding them as one Deity or three separate deities. Both option are blesphemy.
Hi, I would like to tell you about Jesus Christ
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It is according to your reasoning and your reasoning is false. According to the Islamic reasoning, trinitarian Christians worship two created beings as if they are God although they are not. It doesn't differ whether you are regarding them as one Deity or three separate deities. Both option are blesphemy.
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This forums not the right place to post about wanting us to accept Christianity. Much like i wouldnt go on to a Christian forum and tell y'all to accept islam
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Hello Jacqueline,
I am quoting some previous posts which provide a good summary of the issues at hand:
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Originally Posted by Aprender
Originally Posted by Aprender
Originally Posted by YusufNoor
Originally Posted by YusufNoor
the only thing that you could convince us of is that you are misguided.
as for who get's into heaven, Allah, and Allah alone decides that. one get's into heaven by Allah/s mercy, not by deeds.
i've never seen any contemporaneous evidence that suggests that what is called Christianity today, is what Jesus and his followers believed.
if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is it that the Qur'an, in it's original language, was completed BEFORE the New Testament was in it's original language?
if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is that Islamic beliefs were established BEFORE Christians figured out exactly what it takes to be a Christian, and in which there is still wide spread disagreement today?
if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is it that Muslims follow the teachings of a Prophet of God, but Christians don't even follow what Jesus taught?
if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is that if both the "Bible" and the Qur'an were completely destroyed, Muslims could recreate the Qur'an in a matter of days, while Christians could NEVER recreate their Bible? the task of recreating the Bible can never happen because, even today. Christians cannot agree on what the Bible is supposed to be?
if you think your "investigation" is over, i would suggest that you need a new investigator!
Originally Posted by جوري
Interesting, can you take this quiz and tell me how you score? For God doesn't author confusion of course
http://exchristian.net/3/
I am quoting some previous posts which provide a good summary of the issues at hand:
[We] invite you to belief in one true God, with no associates whatsoever in His Exclusive Divinity, be that in the form of a son, or incarnations of God (something Christianity and Hinduism share in common), or in any other way. No sons, no 3-in-1's, Just purely One. Glorified and Exalted be He above all that is falsely attributed to Him.
- There is only One God. He alone should be worshipped. He is our Creator, Sustainer, and Lord.
- He does not beget, nor is He begotten. He has no sons, daughters, siblings, parents, cousins, or relatives of any sort.
- He is eternal and does not die, in any way.
- He does not depend on anyone/anything yet we all depend on Him. He is free of all want and need.
- There is nothing like Him. He is all Hearing, all Seeing, all Knowing, all Powerful, Incomparable, the Creator of the Universe.
- He did not and does not, become flesh, dwell in human or animal bodies, nor are there any incarnations of Him. He is not mixed up in His creation in any way.
- He is not composed of persons, nor a trinity. There are no secondary, lesser, greater, equal, or multiple gods, nor any intermediaries. And no denying of God's existence either.
- There are no sharers, associates, persons or parts whatsoever in His exclusive Divinity. Simply, He is One, in every sense of the word One.
Salvation and sin and forgiveness
With regards to salvation and sin, my understanding is that the whole of Christianity hinges on the fact, that according to Christians, God did not forgive Adam (peace be upon him) for eating from the tree, and that not only Adam but all subsequent generations have to bear a punishment from God, and fell out of grace with God, their relationship with God was severed, and they are born into a state of sin (though I understand this isn't the case in Mormonism). They believe that God expects perfection from humans which humans can never achieve (partly because of the aforementioned sin), thus to atone for our imperfection and inability to meet God's expectation, and to reconcile people to God and repair the severed relationship, and to forgive (but in reality atone) people's sins, the sacrifice of an innocent man (who also happens to be God) and his slow, bloody, and painful death comes into play.
With Allah forgiving Adam (peace be upon him) and honouring him and guiding him, as per Islam, none of the above is needed. In Islam, there is no concept of original sin, nor of God expecting perfection which cannot be achieved, nor of a broken relationship with God that requires reconciling, nor of ****ation requiring a saviour. No innocent person is made to suffer or die for other's sins.
In Islam, as Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) asked for forgiveness and were forgiven, so we too ask for Allah's forgiveness for our sins, as He loves for us to turn to Him in repentance, and loves forgiving. This forgiveness comes freely, just by Allah's will, when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent. Forgiveness does not require any type of sacrifice by God, or any purchase price. Both Adam and Eve repented and were forgiven by their Loving, Merciful Lord; and indeed Adam was then chosen to be the first person to receive guidance from Allah, was honoured by Allah, and is counted among all the other Prophets of Islam.
While guidance and the right way has been shown to us, we, as humans, have the freedom to choose, to err, and to repent sincerely, and should we do so, we will find Allah Kind & Forgiving. For all and any in the posterity of Adam, the door of returning to the right path is always open, prior to death.
We are required to struggle, and to make effort, and to show our commitment on our part, by believing and doing good deeds, and obeying God, and the teachings he sent His messengers with. Ultimately, salvation is through Allah's mercy.
It is actually denigrating to God's Power that He should not be able to forgive or remove sins without begetting a son and then sacrificing the son. It ascribes imperfection to God. Perfection is being able to forgive, freely, abundantly, at will. That is perfection. Islam recognises God's power to forgive with just His Will. Some of the other religions seem to claim that forgiveness requires a purchase price and if we can't pay it, somebody else has to pay it on our behalf. In Islam, forgiveness comes without a purchase price or sacrifice. We do not/cannot: buy, sacrifice for, earn or steal it. It comes freely when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent, accepting God's will.
We strive with faith and deeds and obedience to God, do our best, and trust in His Promise, and His Justice, and hoping for His Mercy.
For Christians, this may be hard. They believe that by accepting Jesus (peace be upon him) as their saviour they have an assurance of salvation, and view the Islamic position on salvation as being one of uncertainty. As a rough (not exact) analogy, the Christian position, is like one sitting an exam, but somebody has said they'll take all your bad marks for you, and if you let them do that, you'll pass. In the world, this would be viewed as cheating and as unjust. Injustice cannot be ascribed to God. The Islamic position is that of one sitting an exam, doing their best, and then awaiting their results, based on what they've done, and of course hoping for the mercy of God.
As to Judaism, we believe that God revealed the Torah to Moses and a book called the Injeel to Jesus (peace be upon them both). Both were God's word, scriptures bestowed on the respective prophets. However, over time, people added to/changed the scriptures, so they are no longer the books revealed by God, although fragments of the truth may still survive within them. This is why the Qur'an was revealed, and Allah has promised to preserve it, which is why there will be no need for a new prophet, because the scripture, is, and will remain, in tact. It supersedes the previous scriptures, while being a continuation, confirmation and culmination of the original message contained within them, in its last and final form.
Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that some of the strict regulations Jews have to follow were because of their rebellion, and some were self-imposed. Allah knows best if sacrifices for atonement were an original part of the faith, or added later. Now we have an original and unchanged and preserved scripture from God, we don't need to worry about whats in the current Bible and Torah as authored/changed by humans. As Muslims, part of our articles of faith are to believe in all the scriptures that God revealed, including the Torah and Injeel in their original form as revealed by God, even though we haven't seen them and weren't around when they were revealed. And we believe in and follow as our guide, the current and final scripture, the Qur'an, revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace and salutations of Allah be upon him) who is the prophet who must be followed now and is the Prophet to be followed for all mankind for all time to come.
Please note that Islam is not a new faith but is the same Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them). Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, and the meaning loosely translates as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, all races and all peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning.
With regards to salvation and sin, my understanding is that the whole of Christianity hinges on the fact, that according to Christians, God did not forgive Adam (peace be upon him) for eating from the tree, and that not only Adam but all subsequent generations have to bear a punishment from God, and fell out of grace with God, their relationship with God was severed, and they are born into a state of sin (though I understand this isn't the case in Mormonism). They believe that God expects perfection from humans which humans can never achieve (partly because of the aforementioned sin), thus to atone for our imperfection and inability to meet God's expectation, and to reconcile people to God and repair the severed relationship, and to forgive (but in reality atone) people's sins, the sacrifice of an innocent man (who also happens to be God) and his slow, bloody, and painful death comes into play.
With Allah forgiving Adam (peace be upon him) and honouring him and guiding him, as per Islam, none of the above is needed. In Islam, there is no concept of original sin, nor of God expecting perfection which cannot be achieved, nor of a broken relationship with God that requires reconciling, nor of ****ation requiring a saviour. No innocent person is made to suffer or die for other's sins.
In Islam, as Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) asked for forgiveness and were forgiven, so we too ask for Allah's forgiveness for our sins, as He loves for us to turn to Him in repentance, and loves forgiving. This forgiveness comes freely, just by Allah's will, when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent. Forgiveness does not require any type of sacrifice by God, or any purchase price. Both Adam and Eve repented and were forgiven by their Loving, Merciful Lord; and indeed Adam was then chosen to be the first person to receive guidance from Allah, was honoured by Allah, and is counted among all the other Prophets of Islam.
While guidance and the right way has been shown to us, we, as humans, have the freedom to choose, to err, and to repent sincerely, and should we do so, we will find Allah Kind & Forgiving. For all and any in the posterity of Adam, the door of returning to the right path is always open, prior to death.
We are required to struggle, and to make effort, and to show our commitment on our part, by believing and doing good deeds, and obeying God, and the teachings he sent His messengers with. Ultimately, salvation is through Allah's mercy.
It is actually denigrating to God's Power that He should not be able to forgive or remove sins without begetting a son and then sacrificing the son. It ascribes imperfection to God. Perfection is being able to forgive, freely, abundantly, at will. That is perfection. Islam recognises God's power to forgive with just His Will. Some of the other religions seem to claim that forgiveness requires a purchase price and if we can't pay it, somebody else has to pay it on our behalf. In Islam, forgiveness comes without a purchase price or sacrifice. We do not/cannot: buy, sacrifice for, earn or steal it. It comes freely when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent, accepting God's will.
We strive with faith and deeds and obedience to God, do our best, and trust in His Promise, and His Justice, and hoping for His Mercy.
For Christians, this may be hard. They believe that by accepting Jesus (peace be upon him) as their saviour they have an assurance of salvation, and view the Islamic position on salvation as being one of uncertainty. As a rough (not exact) analogy, the Christian position, is like one sitting an exam, but somebody has said they'll take all your bad marks for you, and if you let them do that, you'll pass. In the world, this would be viewed as cheating and as unjust. Injustice cannot be ascribed to God. The Islamic position is that of one sitting an exam, doing their best, and then awaiting their results, based on what they've done, and of course hoping for the mercy of God.
As to Judaism, we believe that God revealed the Torah to Moses and a book called the Injeel to Jesus (peace be upon them both). Both were God's word, scriptures bestowed on the respective prophets. However, over time, people added to/changed the scriptures, so they are no longer the books revealed by God, although fragments of the truth may still survive within them. This is why the Qur'an was revealed, and Allah has promised to preserve it, which is why there will be no need for a new prophet, because the scripture, is, and will remain, in tact. It supersedes the previous scriptures, while being a continuation, confirmation and culmination of the original message contained within them, in its last and final form.
Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that some of the strict regulations Jews have to follow were because of their rebellion, and some were self-imposed. Allah knows best if sacrifices for atonement were an original part of the faith, or added later. Now we have an original and unchanged and preserved scripture from God, we don't need to worry about whats in the current Bible and Torah as authored/changed by humans. As Muslims, part of our articles of faith are to believe in all the scriptures that God revealed, including the Torah and Injeel in their original form as revealed by God, even though we haven't seen them and weren't around when they were revealed. And we believe in and follow as our guide, the current and final scripture, the Qur'an, revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace and salutations of Allah be upon him) who is the prophet who must be followed now and is the Prophet to be followed for all mankind for all time to come.
Please note that Islam is not a new faith but is the same Ultimate Truth that God revealed to all prophets, including Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them). Thus Islam is not named after a specific person (like Christianity, Buddhism), nor after a certain race or place (like Judaism, Hinduism), but is named by God Himself, and the meaning loosely translates as 'submission to God', which is what every Prophet and their righteous followers did, from amongst all times, all races and all peoples. That in itself is one fraction of the evidence that it was the way of all the Prophets from the beginning.
Muslims love and respect Jesus (peace be upon him) and believe in him as he was; one of the most noble and purest of humanity to ever walk the earth, and one of the greatest messengers of Allah, sent to the Children of Israel. We do not reject him (as Jews do), nor do we deify him (as Christians do). Neither he, nor any other messenger, ever claimed divinity, or to be God's son. We believe he was born miraculously of the noble virgin Mary (peace be on her), and that he is the messiah. We do not however, believe that he was crucified. He'll return to earth near the end of time.
Let us hear what those who have studied Christianity have said on this very forum:
I spent 45 years as a Christian. 25 of those years as a Devout Roman Catholic and a one time seminarian. Then 20 years as a "Born Again" Assembly of God Preacher, Evangelist and Pastor. I too was filled with the Holy spirit and spoke in tongues. I lead many people to Jesus(as) with my preaching and Missionary work in the Mideast and other parts of the world.
I not only believed I led others to believe. Than one day after much prayer I came to realize I was living a lie and an error. I tried for 3 more years and continued to preach, but eventually had to admit that was hypocrisy. I had to admit I was an Atheist, no matter how deeply I wanted to believe. I hated to leave Christianity, but could not believe and could no longer bring myself to preach what I came to believe was a Lie.
I lived the next 20 years as an atheist with occasional Agnostic thoughts. At the age of 65 Allaah(swt) led me to the path of Islam and then I discovered how to truly Love Jesus(as) and live what he actually taught.
My point being do not assume that Muslims are naive and unaware of Christianity. Many of us have strong Christian roots and have Christian friends and relatives.
We are willing to live alongside Christians and even share thoughts with them in the interest of mutual respect and understanding. We are not Muslim because we hate Jesus(as) but because we Love him and do our best to live what he actually taught, which is the same message that is found in the Qur'an.
In the interest of peace among all people, let us understand that each of us alone is responsible for the results of our beliefs. We all have the duty to question all things and only follow that which we our self have verified to be true. Allaah(swt) will lead those who desire to be led. No human has the power or the right to cause another person to believe anything.
With that said I find very few things in the NT to be the Actual teachings of Jesus(as). I can not follow that which I can not verify to be true.
I do not expect you to follow that which you do not believe, grant me the same right to not follow that which I do not believe.
I not only believed I led others to believe. Than one day after much prayer I came to realize I was living a lie and an error. I tried for 3 more years and continued to preach, but eventually had to admit that was hypocrisy. I had to admit I was an Atheist, no matter how deeply I wanted to believe. I hated to leave Christianity, but could not believe and could no longer bring myself to preach what I came to believe was a Lie.
I lived the next 20 years as an atheist with occasional Agnostic thoughts. At the age of 65 Allaah(swt) led me to the path of Islam and then I discovered how to truly Love Jesus(as) and live what he actually taught.
My point being do not assume that Muslims are naive and unaware of Christianity. Many of us have strong Christian roots and have Christian friends and relatives.
We are willing to live alongside Christians and even share thoughts with them in the interest of mutual respect and understanding. We are not Muslim because we hate Jesus(as) but because we Love him and do our best to live what he actually taught, which is the same message that is found in the Qur'an.
In the interest of peace among all people, let us understand that each of us alone is responsible for the results of our beliefs. We all have the duty to question all things and only follow that which we our self have verified to be true. Allaah(swt) will lead those who desire to be led. No human has the power or the right to cause another person to believe anything.
With that said I find very few things in the NT to be the Actual teachings of Jesus(as). I can not follow that which I can not verify to be true.
I do not expect you to follow that which you do not believe, grant me the same right to not follow that which I do not believe.
You need to understand the history of the Biblical texts. That's what I did. I grew up in a Christian household, in my later high school and early college years I went away from Christianity and then came back to it. My goal was to study as much about Christianity as I could so I could go out and let people know about the joy of Christianity and being saved.
So I read the different translations of the Bible. Some of them had different verses out of place. Some had verses that were missing. And so I went to different Bible scholars to help explain some of the inconsistencies to me. Remember this story?
John 8:1-7
[SUP]2[/SUP] At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. [SUP]3[/SUP] The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group [SUP]4[/SUP] and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. [SUP]5[/SUP] In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” [SUP]6[/SUP] They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. [SUP]7[/SUP] When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Do you know that all of that is a fabrication? It is a story that was made up and later added to the Bible to support the new message that was being brought to the people. No Muslim told me this. Christian scholars did. Christian scholars also told me that we don't have a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the original text.
Now I don't know about you but that worried me a lot. But I initially ignored it and went on believing in this message that we'd all be saved if we just had faith and believed that Jesus, pbuh, would save us. Then I learned that the Trinity was a concept that was added to the Bible about two centuries after Jesus, pbuh, was here. I was fine with that because it was a concept that made absolutely no sense to me and made no sense to the scholars even who taught it. I was fine with letting that go. Then the more I learned about Christianity, I saw that there were more than 30,000 different types of Christianity. If they're all teaching from the same book, then why so many? Which one is right Christianity? Furthermore, there are versions of the Bible which call the One God, ALLAH. Many of them are out of print in the West for obvious reasons.
Another example from the Bible was this character Lilith. It is a story in Jewish mythology. If you look back in history you would find in old versions of the Bible her name shows up. It is said in these traditions that she was the first woman created but she was cast out of the Garden for not wanting to submit to Adam, pbuh, so she became a demon and was the cause of sorrow, misery, infertility and wet dreams for people. Look in your version of the Bible today and you won't find any mention of her anymore because her name was translated out of the Bible. This is what it used to say in
Isaiah 34:14
And there shall the beasts of the desert meet with the jackals, and the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; the Lilith also shall settle there, and find for herself a place of rest.
And this is what it says now:
[SUP]14[/SUP] Desert creatures will meet with hyenas,
and wild goats will bleat to each other;
there the night creatures will also lie down
and find for themselves places of rest.
Then another translation:
[SUP]14[/SUP] And wild animals shall meet with hyenas;
the wild goat shall cry to his fellow;
indeed, there the night bird settles
and finds for herself a resting place.
And another translation:
[SUP]14[/SUP]The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.
So she goes from being a woman, to a night creature, to a bird and in some translations an owl. What is she then? Furthermore, we know that this story isn't true so why is it even referenced in the Bible to begin with?
This just goes to show you how unreliable translations are. And we also know that Muhammad (pbuh) appears in the Bible but was translated OUT of current Biblical texts for obvious reasons.
Further going into history, you would find that if any of the current Christians said what they say about Jesus, pbuh, today, you would be killed for blasphemy! Even James, his own brother, did not look at Jesus, pbuh, as divine but rather a prophet and messenger of the One God. So tell me, would you rather believe the word of Paul, a man who never even met Jesus, over his own brother who was there with him when he was on the earth?
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
And if we look toward the context of this verse, he is looking up the heavens and praying! What you need to do is get a red letter Bible. Look at the message that Jesus taught and then look at the message that Paul taught. They're not the same. Essentially Paul is saying in the Bible that while Jesus, pbuh, was here, he couldn't do what he was supposed to to get the word out so Paul had to be inspired to do it and correct what Jesus taught to the people!
It matters not if you think that you don't follow the teachings of Paul but at the end of the day you follow what Paul taught. That is what is being taught. Of all of the monotheistic religions, Christianity is the only one that reveres other people and saints in some forms of it instead of praying to ONE God alone with no intermediaries.
We can sit here and go back and forth and talking about what we "think" is the concept of God and what he is supposed to be and what his message means. Sure, you can do that in the Bible since many Christians believe that throughout the years many different people were "inspired" and wrote those thoughts down in addition to fabrications and other false concepts that weren't originally apart of the Bible or taught by ANY of the prophets, peace be upon them all. Only in the Quran is it laid out exactly what it always HAS been and always will be. Trying to reinterpret it to fit what you want to hear is not going to change the fact that you are to worship ONE God, and do good works. Yes, it is all about faith and I believe that the life of Jesus, pbuh, was an amazing way to show the people on a serious level that there is one God based on all of the amazing miracles that God allowed him to do in his lifetime. But to mix it up with all of that falsehood really is a disservice to yourself. The first commandment is the first commandment for a reason.
My advice is to go to the source text in the original languages, READ, if you can try and learn the Greek and Hebrew languages so you can see for yourself some of the translation errors and see what was changed. Jesus, pbuh, did not speak English but more closely one of the Semitic languages known as Aramaic. English didn't come around until about 900 years ago and you get into a lot of trouble trying to translate the word of God from a translation that's not even in the original language to begin with.
So I read the different translations of the Bible. Some of them had different verses out of place. Some had verses that were missing. And so I went to different Bible scholars to help explain some of the inconsistencies to me. Remember this story?
John 8:1-7
[SUP]2[/SUP] At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. [SUP]3[/SUP] The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group [SUP]4[/SUP] and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. [SUP]5[/SUP] In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” [SUP]6[/SUP] They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. [SUP]7[/SUP] When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Do you know that all of that is a fabrication? It is a story that was made up and later added to the Bible to support the new message that was being brought to the people. No Muslim told me this. Christian scholars did. Christian scholars also told me that we don't have a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the original text.
Now I don't know about you but that worried me a lot. But I initially ignored it and went on believing in this message that we'd all be saved if we just had faith and believed that Jesus, pbuh, would save us. Then I learned that the Trinity was a concept that was added to the Bible about two centuries after Jesus, pbuh, was here. I was fine with that because it was a concept that made absolutely no sense to me and made no sense to the scholars even who taught it. I was fine with letting that go. Then the more I learned about Christianity, I saw that there were more than 30,000 different types of Christianity. If they're all teaching from the same book, then why so many? Which one is right Christianity? Furthermore, there are versions of the Bible which call the One God, ALLAH. Many of them are out of print in the West for obvious reasons.
Another example from the Bible was this character Lilith. It is a story in Jewish mythology. If you look back in history you would find in old versions of the Bible her name shows up. It is said in these traditions that she was the first woman created but she was cast out of the Garden for not wanting to submit to Adam, pbuh, so she became a demon and was the cause of sorrow, misery, infertility and wet dreams for people. Look in your version of the Bible today and you won't find any mention of her anymore because her name was translated out of the Bible. This is what it used to say in
Isaiah 34:14
And there shall the beasts of the desert meet with the jackals, and the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; the Lilith also shall settle there, and find for herself a place of rest.
And this is what it says now:
[SUP]14[/SUP] Desert creatures will meet with hyenas,
and wild goats will bleat to each other;
there the night creatures will also lie down
and find for themselves places of rest.
Then another translation:
[SUP]14[/SUP] And wild animals shall meet with hyenas;
the wild goat shall cry to his fellow;
indeed, there the night bird settles
and finds for herself a resting place.
And another translation:
[SUP]14[/SUP]The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.
So she goes from being a woman, to a night creature, to a bird and in some translations an owl. What is she then? Furthermore, we know that this story isn't true so why is it even referenced in the Bible to begin with?
This just goes to show you how unreliable translations are. And we also know that Muhammad (pbuh) appears in the Bible but was translated OUT of current Biblical texts for obvious reasons.
Further going into history, you would find that if any of the current Christians said what they say about Jesus, pbuh, today, you would be killed for blasphemy! Even James, his own brother, did not look at Jesus, pbuh, as divine but rather a prophet and messenger of the One God. So tell me, would you rather believe the word of Paul, a man who never even met Jesus, over his own brother who was there with him when he was on the earth?
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
And if we look toward the context of this verse, he is looking up the heavens and praying! What you need to do is get a red letter Bible. Look at the message that Jesus taught and then look at the message that Paul taught. They're not the same. Essentially Paul is saying in the Bible that while Jesus, pbuh, was here, he couldn't do what he was supposed to to get the word out so Paul had to be inspired to do it and correct what Jesus taught to the people!
It matters not if you think that you don't follow the teachings of Paul but at the end of the day you follow what Paul taught. That is what is being taught. Of all of the monotheistic religions, Christianity is the only one that reveres other people and saints in some forms of it instead of praying to ONE God alone with no intermediaries.
We can sit here and go back and forth and talking about what we "think" is the concept of God and what he is supposed to be and what his message means. Sure, you can do that in the Bible since many Christians believe that throughout the years many different people were "inspired" and wrote those thoughts down in addition to fabrications and other false concepts that weren't originally apart of the Bible or taught by ANY of the prophets, peace be upon them all. Only in the Quran is it laid out exactly what it always HAS been and always will be. Trying to reinterpret it to fit what you want to hear is not going to change the fact that you are to worship ONE God, and do good works. Yes, it is all about faith and I believe that the life of Jesus, pbuh, was an amazing way to show the people on a serious level that there is one God based on all of the amazing miracles that God allowed him to do in his lifetime. But to mix it up with all of that falsehood really is a disservice to yourself. The first commandment is the first commandment for a reason.
My advice is to go to the source text in the original languages, READ, if you can try and learn the Greek and Hebrew languages so you can see for yourself some of the translation errors and see what was changed. Jesus, pbuh, did not speak English but more closely one of the Semitic languages known as Aramaic. English didn't come around until about 900 years ago and you get into a lot of trouble trying to translate the word of God from a translation that's not even in the original language to begin with.
And you're not listening to anything anyone is saying to you here. You continuously quote the Bible and say the Bible said this, the Bible said that but do you understand that the Bible that you are reading is not even the same Bible as it was 400 years ago let alone 2,000 years ago? Some Bible scholars today are even saying that HALF of the New Testament is forged. Yet instead of listening, reading, and learning, you sit here and quote a book where the original is no longer even around for comparison--a book where we know that stories were added in, taken out, names of people purposely mistranslated but yet you still continue to quote it as if it is the infallible word of God. Where books were written that say that Jesus said things when the people who wrote them never even met Jesus (pbuh). That's where the issue arises here in the book itself. We don't know where the original Injeel is and if someone has it then they'd do a great service to the world by bringing it forward.
Look, I know this is tough but when I was searching for the truth I prayed to God and God alone and Allah swt guided me to Islam. I spent nearly 4 years going back and forth through different translations of the Bible, reading, comparing and the more I learned the more I got closer to Islam and I didn't want to accept it as the truth because it meant everything that I had learned in my life wasn't quite right. It takes more than light to be guided my brother. We sit here and claim to love God but continuously disobey Him by following what is obvious falsehood. We come up with metaphors and creative interpretations to make what is wrong, right. God said not to have any other gods before him, but we somehow put one of His prophets before Him, the Almighty! In ISLAM we believe that Allah swt is closer to us than the veins in our necks. He knows exactly what we are thinking and He tells us in the Quran that when we remember Him, He remembers us. When take one step toward Him, He comes running to us.
But somehow there are these concepts that have been introduced that have some in believing arrogantly that they are "saved" just because they believe. That's another trick of Satan. When you believe that you are good enough to be in the presence of the Almighty God then you really need to check yourself. You were created for nothing more than to worship Him and the least you can do is a human being is learn how to do it in the correct way.
My advice to you is to stop for a moment. Unlearn everything that you've learned and come toward the concept of God as if you are a child and read and learn for yourself. What makes sense and what doesn't make sense? Truth easily stands out from falsehood.
Look, I know this is tough but when I was searching for the truth I prayed to God and God alone and Allah swt guided me to Islam. I spent nearly 4 years going back and forth through different translations of the Bible, reading, comparing and the more I learned the more I got closer to Islam and I didn't want to accept it as the truth because it meant everything that I had learned in my life wasn't quite right. It takes more than light to be guided my brother. We sit here and claim to love God but continuously disobey Him by following what is obvious falsehood. We come up with metaphors and creative interpretations to make what is wrong, right. God said not to have any other gods before him, but we somehow put one of His prophets before Him, the Almighty! In ISLAM we believe that Allah swt is closer to us than the veins in our necks. He knows exactly what we are thinking and He tells us in the Quran that when we remember Him, He remembers us. When take one step toward Him, He comes running to us.
But somehow there are these concepts that have been introduced that have some in believing arrogantly that they are "saved" just because they believe. That's another trick of Satan. When you believe that you are good enough to be in the presence of the Almighty God then you really need to check yourself. You were created for nothing more than to worship Him and the least you can do is a human being is learn how to do it in the correct way.
My advice to you is to stop for a moment. Unlearn everything that you've learned and come toward the concept of God as if you are a child and read and learn for yourself. What makes sense and what doesn't make sense? Truth easily stands out from falsehood.
the Qur'an exists as it was completed by revelation. no single Bible existence, is complete. NONE! they all have changes.
no one knows who wrote the majority of the New Testament. the 4 Gospels can't even agree on what day Jesus, pbuh, was allegedly executed. nor cam Matthew and Luke agree that Jesus was from Nazareth or Galilee.
Paul even claims that he taught a different Gospel than the one taught by the disciples of Jesus, pbuh.
i'll stick to the Qur'an, thank you very much. at least we know what it is!
have a nice day!
no one knows who wrote the majority of the New Testament. the 4 Gospels can't even agree on what day Jesus, pbuh, was allegedly executed. nor cam Matthew and Luke agree that Jesus was from Nazareth or Galilee.
Paul even claims that he taught a different Gospel than the one taught by the disciples of Jesus, pbuh.
i'll stick to the Qur'an, thank you very much. at least we know what it is!
have a nice day!
the only thing that you could convince us of is that you are misguided.
as for who get's into heaven, Allah, and Allah alone decides that. one get's into heaven by Allah/s mercy, not by deeds.
i've never seen any contemporaneous evidence that suggests that what is called Christianity today, is what Jesus and his followers believed.
if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is it that the Qur'an, in it's original language, was completed BEFORE the New Testament was in it's original language?
if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is that Islamic beliefs were established BEFORE Christians figured out exactly what it takes to be a Christian, and in which there is still wide spread disagreement today?
if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is it that Muslims follow the teachings of a Prophet of God, but Christians don't even follow what Jesus taught?
if, Christianity is true, which it is not, why is that if both the "Bible" and the Qur'an were completely destroyed, Muslims could recreate the Qur'an in a matter of days, while Christians could NEVER recreate their Bible? the task of recreating the Bible can never happen because, even today. Christians cannot agree on what the Bible is supposed to be?
if you think your "investigation" is over, i would suggest that you need a new investigator!
Interesting, can you take this quiz and tell me how you score? For God doesn't author confusion of course
http://exchristian.net/3/
Hi Jacqueline ,
Sorry I did not read your full post a few first lines as bolded above , i 've been addressing such posts actively for a few years as in this thread here
http://www.ummah.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-413768.html
but not that active these days .
With due consideration to your feelings,The Lord in your heart is not the Real Lord , but Satan (the mischievious) who takes man to extreme just make him and put him in pain & misguidance AWAY FROM HIS CREATOR . Yes Shaitan makes man feel Boring, terribly upset , Too much OR EXTREME Love, or extreme hate or its called waswas in islamic terms. This is how Adam was mislead too going against the commandment of His Lord, Allah.
I suggest you the read the NOBLE QURAN without PREJUDICE and know its from the Lord of Jesus who had been sending Prophets from the days of Adam untill the last Prophet till the last days of this world
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Bobbyflay23
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You guys she got scared off
MuhammadHamza1
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I hope you will have a good debate with me.
So now.
Here are my questions.
1)-Human Sacrifice ia proven to be a Pagan tradition.How do you explain that.
2)-Do you think that the New Testament was written by Eye witnesses?
3)-Is the New Testament PRESERVED WORD of God?
4)-How can you prove to me that any verse of the Bible,is not an interpolation or a misquotation or a forgery,just like the last verses of Gospel of Mark,verse of Trinity,stort of adultereas woman etc?
4)-Why are no two manuscripts among the thousands of New Testament,similiar?
We must know these basic facts.We need to know how to read a book.
If Christianity is the true religion,There should be no problem answerimg these question.
MuhammadHamza1
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We must ask basic questions.
And to the people here,
Do not stray from the topic.
Watch these videos.
Can you blame us for not being Christians after this.
https://youtu.be/b-cZncVmtIU
https://youtu.be/AxiNy8mwHqM
https://youtu.be/GHJE7cetkB4
https://youtu.be/XtgfS40f0w4
https://youtu.be/mPiV_2tXRVc
https://youtu.be/WwJyPFVTdIo
There are many more.
But we have to go in an order.
View things critically.
Truth fears no investigation.
Quran encourages critical thinking.This is one of the main reasons I am a Muslim.
I have tons of more videos.
But we have to go in an order.
And to the people here,
Do not stray from the topic.
Watch these videos.
Can you blame us for not being Christians after this.
https://youtu.be/b-cZncVmtIU
https://youtu.be/AxiNy8mwHqM
https://youtu.be/GHJE7cetkB4
https://youtu.be/XtgfS40f0w4
https://youtu.be/mPiV_2tXRVc
https://youtu.be/WwJyPFVTdIo
There are many more.
But we have to go in an order.
View things critically.
Truth fears no investigation.
Quran encourages critical thinking.This is one of the main reasons I am a Muslim.
I have tons of more videos.
But we have to go in an order.
MuhammadHamza1
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No - Christians (who are, by definition, trinitarian) worship One UNcreated being - i.e. God.
On JD's behalf, a few quick answers to your questions:
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) The same question can be asked about any Sacred Book.
The story of the woman caught in adultery isn't an interpolation, but a piece of Luke's Gospel that became embedded in John's Gospel
Manuscripts always differ - unless they have been doctored or (as with the Quran) all but one version has been destroyed.
MuhammadHamza1
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I will adress other points.
But first let us discuss point number 4.
This is no answer.
If you listened to the first video,
You will understand the severe differences.
I am not saying the minor differences.
Such differnces occur while copying by hand.
But the contradictions are so much.
Now take the Quran.
We had hundreds if not thousands of people who had memorized it.
We have Tafsirs of Quran from early centuries and the verses of Quran in theie books of Tafsir,
Are exactly same.
God could have preserved the Originals of the New Testament.
We have forgeries in it and no two manuscripts are same.
HERE IS MY CASE.
When you think of God,what comes to your mind?
He is Perfect.
And so is his religion.
And so is his book.
It would have been no difficulty for him to preserve the originals.One way of doing it was by making people memorize it.Not one but many.So that there would have been no doubt.
This is a book of God.Not a biography by an ordinary people.
Yea they were normal people,but they were inspired through the Holy Spirit were they not?
God could have just preserved the Originals.It was no difficult task for him.The all powerful.
This is only one point.
I want to discuss this first.
I hope you do not mind.
Logikon
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HERE IS MY CASE
Muslims claim that God wrote a book (the Koran) and Muslims preserved it.
Muslims claim that God wrote a book (the Bible) and it was not preserved. You are wrong!
Christians claim that God DID NOT write a book. Rather, the Bible is a collection of books written by different people.
You say "It would have been no difficulty for God to preserve the original". Well there was no book to preserve.
"Bible" comes from the word "Bibliography" which is the Greek for "library" Hence a collection of books.
.