How many errors in the bible?
- Thread starter Calmate
- Start date
- Replies 116
- Views 39K
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Halal Food Gastronomy | vBulletin 4 php 8.0 patch
I used to search for errors in the bible in the past..if you just google it, you can find many.
Now I do not do that anymore...because if you just think logically, then you will know that the bible is not authentic at all.
think about it, there are more than 30 different version
every single version exist in many many different languages.
so you have hundreds of different bibles and every single one of them should be authentic?
to be considered: every translation means loss or mutilation of the orifinal information.
That is enough proof for me that the bible is NOT the word of God.
Now I do not do that anymore...because if you just think logically, then you will know that the bible is not authentic at all.
think about it, there are more than 30 different version
every single version exist in many many different languages.
so you have hundreds of different bibles and every single one of them should be authentic?
to be considered: every translation means loss or mutilation of the orifinal information.
That is enough proof for me that the bible is NOT the word of God.
Salam. May I ask whats your purpose in finding “errors” in Bible?
- - - Updated - - -
Thats a huge word and must be explained in detail.
Greetings and peace be with you Calmate;
I have been on this forum for a few years now, and when any of you guys post something from the Qur'an; I try and learn something from it. I have found it to be an interesting addition to Christian scriptures.
I have heard some Muslims say that not all of the Bible is corrupt, but they don't seem to mention any details. Unless you can discern where any truth or corruption occur, you may be better off just studying the Qur'an.
In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'
Eric
I have been on this forum for a few years now, and when any of you guys post something from the Qur'an; I try and learn something from it. I have found it to be an interesting addition to Christian scriptures.
I have heard some Muslims say that not all of the Bible is corrupt, but they don't seem to mention any details. Unless you can discern where any truth or corruption occur, you may be better off just studying the Qur'an.
In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'
Eric
ardianto
IB Legend
- Messages
- 8,551
- Reaction score
- 931
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Salaam.
Link?. Why you need link?. ..... If you sure the Bible contains errors, then you have to able to find the error by yourself. Not just parroting what other people say without know what they say are true or not.
But the best advice that I can give for you is, rather than fussy about other people's Holy Book that you do not follow, it's better if you recite Qur'an. Okay, how many times you have khatam (finished) Qur'an recitation?.
Abz2000
Abz Iz Back!!!
- Messages
- 5,358
- Reaction score
- 589
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
There are almost as many errors as there are in the multiple volumes of ahadith narrated in the name of Allah :swt: 's final messenger :saws: to mankind.
But did you consider that you could label some true words of Allah as errors while in search of finding errors in Bible? No where in Quran I have seen that there are errors in Bible nor it ever teaches us to find some. What Quran says the old revelations are also the words of Allah and even refers to Tawrat (Torah) and Injil (Gospel) as trustworthy sources.
So I find it a risky attempt.
- - - Updated - - -
That is just a simple reasoning and still requires detailed explanation. However we Muslims are supposed to believe that it is the word of Allah basically. There having been possible corruptions and additions in it does not change the absolute status of the book. As for the different translations, we too are using different translations of Quran to understand it and refer to them several times but this does not decrease the accountability of the translations.
Last edited:
Eric,
You know that Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) was sent to the Jews. You know how the Jewish Rabbis treated him. Is it not your belief as well as ours that the Jewish Rabbis plotted to have Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) killed and that in your belief they succeeded? (Correct me if I'm wrong). Do you then believe that the Jews who were entrusted with preserving the Holy Scripture that was sent to Moses (Peace Be Upon Him) and all the other prophets before Jesus (May God's Peace Be Upon Them All) were trustworthy enough to fulfill such a sacred trust? This is with regards to the Old Testament.
As far as the New Testament is concerned, then 13 of the 27 books in the New Testament were written by Paul (correct me if I am wrong)--a former Jew who persecuted the followers of Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him). This is hardly a trustworthy candidate for being one of God's Noble Messengers.
For the Muslims, we have the Quran which we can say with confidence has been preserved letter for letter throughout the centuries until today. We know that the Quran we recite today is the same one that was recited by our Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) 1400 + years ago. I can very easily prove this.
As for the Hadith, which are the recorded actions and statements of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him), then for every single statement or action of his that is authentic, there is a chain of narrators. Our scholars of hadith know every single person in that chain. For example:
[FONT="]Al-Bukhari reported that: Yahya ibn Bukayr narrated to us from Al-Layth from `Uqayl from Ibn Shuhba from `Urwah from `A’ishah who said, “Whenever the Prophet was given an option between two things, he used to select the easier of the two as long as it was not sinful; but if it was sinful, he would remain far from it.”[/FONT]
So here the chain is Bukhari-->Yahya ibn Bukayr-->Al-Layth-->'Uqayl-->Ibn Shuhba-->'Urwah-->'A'ishah (the Wife of the Prophet)-->The Prophet himself (Peace Be Upon Him)
Because we know in detail every single narrator and we know whether they were trustworthy or not, we can say with confidence that the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) did in fact do as said.
If there was someone missing in the chain, or someone who is considered untrustworthy, then the hadith is not considered authentic.
For example, (This is NOT a real chain. I am just using it to illustrate a point): Yahya ibn Bukayr-->Al-Layth-->?-->Ibn Shuhba-->'Urwah-->'Aishah-->The Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him)
So here, all of the narrators that are known are all trustworthy, but because there is someone who is unknown, this Hadith would not be considered Authentic and therefore we the Muslims would not use it in our beliefs or actions. The amazing thing is, the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) could very well have said it and the hadith could be saying nothing wrong, but because, there is a link in the chain missing we do not take it as our religion. This hadith would be considered weak.
Our weak hadith are more authentic than the bible. You do not have this way of authenticating with the bible. You do not have a single chain of narrators for every single statement that Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) said.
Because of the Quran, and the authentic hadith, we know Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) very well. I can say with full confidence and without any exaggeration that he is the most-well documented man in history. We know him. He was not a liar. He was not making up what he said. He was a very sincere, honest, and trustworthy person. Any of us can give more than enough evidence to prove this. We have countless examples of his exceptional intelligence which refutes any and all unjust accusations or insinuations of madness. And it is not in the interests of the devil to raise a man who would abolish idolatry, establish prayer and charity, and strengthen and reaffirm the 10 commandments. There is no other explanation, there is no other possibility. He was a Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him).
As for the details of what is and isn't authentic in the bible, then of course, we the Muslims would have no way of knowing this ourselves except by what God (Allah) tells us. Whatever the bible says that is in accordance with the Quran and the Sunnah, then we say, yes that is true. This is from God. Whatever the bible says that contradicts the Quran and the Sunnah, then we say, no that is false. That is a man-made innovation. Whatever the bible says that is neither confirmed or denied in the Quran or Sunnah we say, "God Knows best".
Wa Allahu 'Alim
- - - Updated - - -
Bro, what are you talking about?
Sorry Anatolian, but appearantly you do not know what you are talking about.
First of all, the Injil is NOT the Bible. The Bible as we know it is just the work of many different authors combined to one book. It is not Gods word. if you like to compare it with Islam...you could say it is similar to a hadeeth book, but about Isa as of course. We Muslims believe that the Injil is the word of Allah...not some hadeeth book like the Bible. Of course, the Bible may contain some truth. I am not saying that the whole Bible is totally contradictory to the truth...but still it cannot be trusted anymore.
here you can find some different versions of the Bible...not different translations...but versions...17 of them...all in English:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-versions/
now tell me which one of them is the true one. who decides that the other versions are not accurate?
We too are using different translation to understand the Quran...but we do not call those translations the Quran...we do not pray with those translations...those translations do not have the same status as the Quran.
and no...using different translations does not decrease the accountability of the translations...it increases the understanding of the original message...but that is not what they are doing...they do not use different translations of the Bible...they just take one translation...and call that the absolute truth...and their neighbour takes a different version and calls that the absolute truth...
So your analogy is not valid.
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction. (an-Nisa: 82)
We are required to believe in the scripture of Musa ('Alayhis Salaam) as it was revealed to him and the Injeel of 'Isa ('Alayhis Salaam) as it was revealed to him. We are not required to believe in the present day scriptures except that which has been confirmed by the Quran and the Sunnah. The present day scriptures are far from trustworthy sources.
If the Brother wants examples of errors in the bible, then what is wrong with that?
We are required to believe in the scripture of Musa ('Alayhis Salaam) as it was revealed to him and the Injeel of 'Isa ('Alayhis Salaam) as it was revealed to him. We are not required to believe in the present day scriptures except that which has been confirmed by the Quran and the Sunnah. The present day scriptures are far from trustworthy sources.
If the Brother wants examples of errors in the bible, then what is wrong with that?
We don't call our translations the words of Allah. And we still have full, easy access to the original that all of us can turn back to for reference. The absolute status of the bible is that it has been corrupted. We believe in what was revealed to the Prophets (May Allah's Peace and Blessings Be Upon Them All):
Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him." (al-Imran: 84)
The bible of today is not what was revealed to the Prophets except some of it.
- - - Updated - - -
Here you go Bro:
https://wardoons.wordpress.com/debate/
You might want to mention the part about Paul being the main source of half the New Testament and how this is not a reliable source.
Abz2000
Abz Iz Back!!!
- Messages
- 5,358
- Reaction score
- 589
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
First of all i would like to thank you for your mostly accurate and well presented analysis.
Regrding your question to me - I am clarifying the fact that although there are many false statements and other statements which have been edited with words changed from places in the bible - and i can prove this, there are thousands of inauthentic ahadith narrated in the name of Muhammad :saws: the Messenger of Allah :swt: - some hadith authenticated by the best scholars including respected imams Al Bukhari and Imam al Muslim also fall short on scrutiny and this is provable through the varying contradictory narrations which are available (read through the book on 'azl in sahih Muslim to ascertain the fact that varying strong opinions of people somehow managed to make it into the books as statements of the Prophet :saws: who was truthful - and must be correlated logically with Quran, other strong ahadith, and known facts - but as you stated most uncertain ahadith didn't manage to pass the chain test even though many of them are true - and this too is obvious to any sincere researcher.
My reason for stating such to the O.P is in order to make them think on a level of sincere study instead of on blind opposition simply for the sake of contention and shiqaaq - since it is without doubt that much of the bible (al kitaab) available to us today is also truthful.
It is better to focus more on kalimatun sawaa un baynanaaa but also important to state facts if there is risk of anybody falsely believing an untruth.
[MENTION=16149]anatolian[/MENTION] Allah :swt: clearly states in the Quran that some falsehood-mongers and miscreants did and do change meanings and words from their true places out of the spirit opposition and false competition, and other even more dark intentions.
May Allah unite people upon the truth - and save us from Shaytaan's plots to get us to take imaginary defensive sides that are not in line with truth - so that we do not close our eyes and ears to reason.
[MENTION=43163]AbuAsiyah[/MENTION] regarding Saul/Paul - although many of his writings contain words difficult to comprehend and some sounding crazy - with some apparently having been edited after him - he does appear to have coded multiple pieces of prophecy into his works - bearing in mind that the unjust Godless rulership had banned many of the more recent books containing prophecy and that he was likely to have found some in raids.
To dismiss his words simply based on his earlier enmity does not hold to scrutiny in Islaam - since 'Umar ibn al Khattaab who was possibly the worst - or at least amongst the worst - in Jaahiliyyah ( idhimba'atha ashqaaha ) was made Ameer Al Mu-mineen after becoming a forerunner in Islaam.
Ibraheem :as: was a seeker and follower of truth - willing to give up tradition, family, and also his own previously held erroneous positions for Allah's sake - and he did this based on logic and sincerity - this is why a true believer is described by Allah :swt: as being upon the millah (religion) of Ibraheem the haneef (exclusively sincere) Muslim (submitted and obedient to Allah in truth and thereby receiving a security of peace from Allah), and who was not of al Mushrikeen (those who falsely equate others with or above Allah :swt: )
Last edited:
eesa the kiwi
IB Expert
- Messages
- 3,945
- Reaction score
- 147
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Asalamu alaikum rahmatulah wa barakatu
Ahmed deedat did a lot of work refuting Christians using the bible. I've linked a pdf to a compilation of some of his works below.
https://islamhouse.com/en/books/89151/
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR][TD]The Choice: Islam and Christianity - English - Ahmed Deedat
The Choice - Islam and Christianity: Two Volumes, By Ahmed Deedat, An excellent book discussing Islam and Christianity in the light of Holy Quran and the Sunnah....[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]
Asslaam 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu
Bro, if you're talking about fabricated hadith then that's cool, but you have to make that clear as not everyone on here is familiar with hadith and your statements could cause confusion. But honestly when it comes to even weak hadith, the bible doesn't even come close in authenticity. If one link is missing (for example) we won't use that hadith because it's not 100%. Christians don't even have a chain.
Even if there was a narrator who was considered "untrustworthy" by our scholars of hadith, that 'untrustworthy' person would be a saint compared to the ones who narrated the bible. Imam Bukhari traveled to collect a hadith from a certain man. He found that man with his horse. The man wanted the horse to come to him so he held out some food in his hand. When the horse came he didn't feed it the food. When Imam Bukhari saw this, he refused to take the hadith from this man. All the man did was play a trick on his horse and Bukhari wouldn't take from him. Compared to Paul, this same man would be of a extremely high caliber of righteousness.
With regards to Bukhari and Muslim, then (correct me if I'm wrong) there is a consensus that these are the two most authentic books in the world after the Quran.
Bro,
Abu Hurairah (RadiaAllahu 'Anhu) narrated
[FONT="]Allah's Apostle deputed me to keep Sadaqat (al-Fitr) of Ramadan. A comer came and started taking handfuls of the foodstuff (of the Sadaqa) (stealthily). I took hold of him and said, "By Allah, I will take you to Allah's Apostle ." He said, "I am needy and have many dependents, and I am in great need." I released him, and in the morning Allah's Apostle asked me, "What did your prisoner do yesterday?" I said, "O Allah's Apostle! The person complained of being needy and of having many dependents, so, I pitied him and let him go." Allah's Apostle said, "Indeed, he told you a lie and he will be coming again." I believed that he would show up again as Allah's Apostle had told me that he would return. So, I waited for him watchfully. When he (showed up and) started stealing handfuls of foodstuff, I caught hold of him again and said, "I will definitely take you to Allah's Apostle. He said, "Leave me, for I am very needy and have many dependents. I promise I will not come back again." I pitied him and let him go.[/FONT][FONT="]In the morning Allah's Apostle asked me, "What did your prisoner do." I replied, "O Allah's Apostle! He complained of his great need and of too many dependents, so I took pity on him and set him free." Allah's Apostle said, "Verily, he told you a lie and he will return." I waited for him attentively for the third time, and when he (came and) started stealing handfuls of the foodstuff, I caught hold of him and said, "I will surely take you to Allah's Apostle as it is the third time you promise not to return, yet you break your promise and come." He said, "(Forgive me and) I will teach you some words with which Allah will benefit you." I asked, "What are they?" He replied, "Whenever you go to bed, recite "Ayat-al-Kursi"-- 'Allahu la ilaha illa huwa-l-Haiy-ul Qaiyum' till you finish the whole verse. (If you do so), Allah will appoint a guard for you who will stay with you and no satan will come near you till morning. " So, I released him. In the morning, Allah's Apostle asked, "What did your prisoner do yesterday?" I replied, "He claimed that he would teach me some words by which Allah will benefit me, so I let him go." Allah's Apostle asked, "What are they?" I replied, "He said to me, 'Whenever you go to bed, recite Ayat-al-Kursi from the beginning to the end ---- Allahu la ilaha illa huwa-lHaiy-ul-Qaiyum----.' He further said to me, '(If you do so), Allah will appoint a guard for you who will stay with you, and no satan will come near you till morning.' (Abu Huraira or another sub-narrator) added that they (the companions) were very keen to do good deeds. The Prophet said, "He spoke the truth, although he is liar. Do you know whom you were talking to, these three nights, O Abu Huraira?" Abu Huraira said, "No." He said, "It was shaitan ."
Even if there is truth in what is said, that doesn't make that source trustworthy. As for what you said about 'Umar ibn al Khattab (RadiaAllahu Anhu), then he is not a Prophet. If Paul had been a repentant sinner who then became a believer in Allah and even became a leader, I could believe that, but a Noble Messenger of Allah, No! No way. Remember that it is our belief in Islam that the Prophets (May Allah's Peace and Blessings Be Upon All of Them) never committed major sins either before Prophethood or after it. Paul, doesn't fit the bill.
I find it ironic that Christians consider Rasoolulah (Salalahu 'Alaihi wa Salaam) to be a false Prophet but then they believe in Paul! How does one justify that one?
I'm not saying that we reject every single word in the bible. I already made that clear in my post to Eric. But the book is corrupted and the narrators are untrustworthy. [/FONT]
popsthebuilder
Elite Member
- Messages
- 261
- Reaction score
- 18
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Christianity
popsthebuilder
Elite Member
- Messages
- 261
- Reaction score
- 18
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Christianity
Last edited:
There are no different versions of the Quran. The original Quran in Arabic is the only version. There are numerous translations into many different languages of that one Arabic version. We do not say that any of these translations are the words of God (Allah). We say that they are translations of the words of God. When we pray our formal prayers, we are not allowed to pray accept in Arabic reading only the real, true words of God. We can make Dua' (supplication) in English or any language to praise God or ask of Him what we want or need anytime but in our formal prayers where we are required to read the Quran, then it is only in Arabic.
popsthebuilder
Elite Member
- Messages
- 261
- Reaction score
- 18
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Christianity
So would you consider the original Aramaic, or Greek, or Hebrew to be authentic?
The Quran shows that some Christian's and Jews are misguided. It never says they are misguided due to the Bible, but due to men.
The original scriptures that were sent by God to the real Prophets were authentic in whatever language they were in.
Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him." (al-Imran: 84)
"But those firm in knowledge among them and the believers believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you. And the establishers of prayer [especially] and the givers of zakah and the believers in Allah and the Last Day - those We will give a great reward. Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], as We revealed to Noah and the prophets after him. And we revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, the Descendants, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the book [of Psalms]. And [We sent] messengers about whom We have related [their stories] to you before and messengers about whom We have not related to you. And Allah spoke to Moses with [direct] speech. [We sent] messengers as bringers of good tidings and warners so that mankind will have no argument against Allah after the messengers. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise." (an-Nisa: 162-165)
But this is not what we have today. We do not have those originals in their pristine form. And the ones who were entrusted with God's revelations have proven to be far less than trustworthy.
I'm not sure what you are talking about. The corruptions that came to the bible are due to men.