Is it work or faith that matters in Christianity?

[Grace Seeker]

Thanks Grace Seeker for your explanation,


Well, they believe that good work is important, but what is their reason to do good work?

Because God's love within us should compell us to good works.

If someone has no morality, then he can do whatever he want but still keep in his mind that his deeds has nothing to do with being saved if he is believing in Jesus as his savior.

He can, but all who come to saving faith in Christ by doing so have simultaneously entered into a trust relationship with Christ. They will want to become more and more like Christ in terms of how they live. As such, there is no room left for unfettered sin. If what a person does is to live for one's self, rather than for God, it shows that that individual has NOT put God first. If God is not first, then God is not that person's supreme allegiance. If not that person's supreme allegiance, then they have not killed the sin nature and are not truly trusting in Christ. Thus, they may use the words of faith, but they have not the acts of faith. One must let God judge the hearts of men (and women), but from all outward and observable signs, it would appear unlikely that they actually have true faith if they have no outward signs of an inward change of the heart toward God.

And yeah, even in Islam our works don't weigh that much without Allah's mercy but they are important to complete our faith. As I said in one of my posts here in this thread:
The Qur’an repeats many many times this at the beginning of many verses in Quran, [those who believe and perform righteous actions], so you can't be a believer while doing bad deeds whether to yourself, to your God or even to people.

I don't know how far does Christianity stress on the work issue, but it is a very important requirement in Islam that need to be fulfilled.

I'm sensing that while we may use different language -- I would not say fulfilled or complete our faith -- that we have the same expectations. For certainly one expects the fruit of good works from a person who truly has faith in what God has done in and through the life of Jesus.

So, its the work that come out as a result after having the faith, and if someone have no faith, then nothing will come out as good deeds.....this is what I got from the last quote. I don't know but James quote was very clear when he said "faith without work is dead" the above explanation can be taken for what Paul said since he stressed on faith in the first place, but as for James, its the totally opposite...correct me if I am wrong please.

I think you understand James correctly -- "faith, without works, is dead". But I don't see Paul as saying the opposite. Let me refer to a Martin Luther's commentary on what Paul was saying about the relationship between faith and works in his letter to the Romans (pardon its length):

God judges what is in the depths of the heart. Therefore his law also makes demands on the depths of the heart and doesn't let the heart rest content in works; rather it punishes as hypocrisy and lies all works done apart from the depths of the heart.

Luther is not saying that works are necessarily evil, only that they have to be done from the heart if they are really to be good. And because works done simpy out of obedience and fear aren't done from the heart, then they really aren't good works at all.

Outwardly you keep the law with works out of fear of punishment or love of gain. Likewise you do everything without free desire and love of the law; you act out of aversion and force. You'd rather act otherwise if the law didn't exist. It follows, then, that you, in the depths of your heart, are an enemy of the law.

And because in the depths of your heart (the only place that counts) one is in reality an enemy of the law, then the works done from that sort of relationship with God have no merit.

You must get used to the idea that it is one thing to do the works of the law and quite another to fulfill it. The works of the law are every thing that a person does or can do of his own free will and by his own powers to obey the law. But because in doing such works the heart abhors the law and yet is forced to obey it, the works are a total loss and are completely useless.

Again, Luther understands Paul to be saying that there is a dichotomy between the genuine keeping of the law out of love for God and one out of love for self. God is able to see the difference in people's hearts. He honors the works of those who do good out of genuine love of God. But those who do it only out of fear or think that by doing something that God owes them are going to be rudely awakened at the time of the last judgment. You see, in my own thinking, there is no way that a human being could ever do anything (no matter how much or how grand) that would make God owe him. If we say that good works in and of themselves have merit, then we are saying that it is possible for God to be in our debt, and that just is so obviously wrong on the surface of it as to, I hope, not need any further comment.

But to fulfill the law means to do its work eagerly, lovingly and freely, without the constraint of the law; it means to live well and in a manner pleasing to God, as though there were no law or punishment. It is the Holy Spirit, however, who puts such eagerness of unconstained love into the heart, as Paul says in chapter 5.

Here you have the heart that is directed toward God. And because it is, all of its works do have value. If one truly loves God, then one is going to naturally want to do the right thing, so one will pay attention to God's law(s) and keep them gladly. Not out of fear of God and punishment, but out of love for God and his righteous ways.

That is why faith alone makes someone just and fulfills the law; faith it is that brings the Holy Spirit through the merits of Christ. The Spirit, in turn, renders the heart glad and free, as the law demands. Then good works proceed from faith itself. That is what Paul means in chapter 3 when, after he has thrown out the works of the law, he sounds as though the wants to abolish the law by faith. No, he says, we uphold the law through faith, i.e. we fulfill it through faith.

This is what the passage you have referenced from Paul is referring to. Remember those terms I talked about. To be justified means to be made right with God. It doesn't happen because we do right things -- those things could be done for the wrong reasons. And right things done for the wrong reason are still wrong things. But when faith (i.e. trust in God) is present, it leads us to do things for the right reason. And when we do things for the right reason, out of faith, out of the depth of a heart turned toward God, then God is going to look at us -- imperfect beings though we are, and not count our sin against us -- he is going to look at us and say that we are alright with him (i.e., justified). And this is because of, not our works or the keeping of the law(s) of God, but because of the faith we have placed in God.

Faith is a work of God in us, which changes us and brings us to birth anew from God. It kills the old [man], makes us completely different people in heart, mind, senses, and all our powers, and brings the Holy Spirit with it. What a living, creative, active powerful thing is faith! It is impossible that faith ever stop doing good. Faith doesn't ask whether good works are to be done, but, before it is asked, it has done them. It is always active. Whoever doesn't do such works is without faith.

So, Luther at least, saw Paul and James to be saying basically the same thing: Faith will quite naturally produce good works as the fruit of our faith; if it doesn't then that faith is dead and probably wasn't real to begin with and we're back to square one. You see, James and Paul aren't saying the opposite, but actually complementary things.



Is it getting any clearer? I'll stop again, let you catch your breath and your thoughts, and see if you have any more questions.